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(EDIT: To clarify, my comment is only a response to "not that easy to find Elixir devs for a startup") --- I don't speak for anyone except myself and a few ac

(EDIT: To clarify, my comment is only a response to "not that easy to find Elixir devs for a startup") --- I don't speak for anyone except myself and a few acquaintances but I wouldn't accept an offer to work on a startup with Elixir unless we're talking at least $15,000 a month or more. And even then it depends a lot on team and company culture. I am tired of sprinting without that ever being connected to me getting extra cash or even recognition. Elixir and Phoenix are productive as hell but they also need deliberate approach and not everything should be done quickly. Requiring me to churn out 3-5 features a week in the first 6 months is the best way for me to hand my resignation a mere two weeks after starting. Sorry, you might not have had this in mind, I am just reacting to your text. But rest assured, ElixirForum has quite a few people who would grab an Elixir job if given the opportunity, some for as low as $2500 a month even. And most people frequenting the forum mostly check its own Jobs section. So if you really want to widen your options, definitely make a job ad post there.

sb8244 3y ago
Did the parent comment get updated? It doesn't track to what you've put here.
- pdimitar 3y ago
  No it hasn't. As I stated, I was only reacting to his "not that easy to find Elixir devs for a startup" is all.
  - dalyons 3y ago
    It sounds like you just dont want to work at a startup? What does that have to do with elixir?
    - pdimitar 3y ago
      Yes I don't want to work for a startup and I stated as much didn't I? ;) What it has to do with Elixir is that Elixir does not scale well with a number of programmers, and many startups go through periods of explosive growth of personnel. With Elixir that very rarely works well, 99% of the time IMO it does not. Adding more people does not increase productivity, it hurts it even.
      - pythonaut_16 3y ago
        Do you think that’s inherent to the language, or a result of common patterns? How do other languages, like Python, scale better to more devs, besides more devs available? All that comes to mind immediately is modules in Elixir being globally available, but I’m genuinely curios about your experiences.
        pdimitar 3y ago
        It's mostly related to the fact that Elixir code is very terse and easy to understand, and that if you put 100 devs on a singular Phoenix web/API project codebase they will be stepping on each others' toes all the time so they need to kind of take turns if they don't want the codebase to become a complete mess. Thirdly, Elixir devs are on average quite senior in general (as they are usually refugees from other stacks) which lends itself to one-man armies very well in my almost 8 years of experience working with Elixir.
        weatherlight 3y ago
        Is it any different than Ruby in this manner? I've worked at companies with 60 ruby engineers we do fine. It's called writing tests. Does stepping on each other's toes happen, of course! but no worse than typescript, java, etc. I don't buy this argument.
        pdimitar 3y ago
        It's 50/50 and really depends on the people, this is just my 8-year old experience, I don't make it as an argument that's truthful beyond any doubt. There is also the fact that the companies I chose to work with didn't want a lot of Elixir devs and we truly made miracles happen with teams of 2 to 8 people.
        sb8244 3y ago
        This doesn't track with my experience. We scaled an org with both Ruby and Elixir (later, 1 of the 2 blessed languages) and there was no tangible difference in that way. You could also scale in other ways like microservice. Elixir plays great in that world, as pretty much every language does. Regarding one man armies. Usual way I've seen to scale is to find those one man armies and put less expensive Jr + mid engineers on their team and have them work together. I don't think that's an Elixir thing though. I'm not trying to sell Elixir here. I think it has benefits in smaller org size that mellow out and equalize as a company grows. Also, startups should always work in whatever language is most comfortable to founding team.
rio517 3y ago
Isn't this concern independent of the language? > Requiring me to churn out 3-5 features a week in the first 6 months is the best way for me to hand my resignation a mere two weeks after starting.
- pdimitar 3y ago
  Actually no it isn't, I was indeed mixing Elixir and non-Elixir concerns in one comment.

sb8244 3y ago

Did the parent comment get updated? It doesn't track to what you've put here.

pdimitar 3y ago
No it hasn't. As I stated, I was only reacting to his "not that easy to find Elixir devs for a startup" is all.
- dalyons 3y ago
  It sounds like you just dont want to work at a startup? What does that have to do with elixir?
  - pdimitar 3y ago
    Yes I don't want to work for a startup and I stated as much didn't I? ;) What it has to do with Elixir is that Elixir does not scale well with a number of programmers, and many startups go through periods of explosive growth of personnel. With Elixir that very rarely works well, 99% of the time IMO it does not. Adding more people does not increase productivity, it hurts it even.
    - pythonaut_16 3y ago
      Do you think that’s inherent to the language, or a result of common patterns? How do other languages, like Python, scale better to more devs, besides more devs available? All that comes to mind immediately is modules in Elixir being globally available, but I’m genuinely curios about your experiences.
      - pdimitar 3y ago
        It's mostly related to the fact that Elixir code is very terse and easy to understand, and that if you put 100 devs on a singular Phoenix web/API project codebase they will be stepping on each others' toes all the time so they need to kind of take turns if they don't want the codebase to become a complete mess. Thirdly, Elixir devs are on average quite senior in general (as they are usually refugees from other stacks) which lends itself to one-man armies very well in my almost 8 years of experience working with Elixir.
        weatherlight 3y ago
        Is it any different than Ruby in this manner? I've worked at companies with 60 ruby engineers we do fine. It's called writing tests. Does stepping on each other's toes happen, of course! but no worse than typescript, java, etc. I don't buy this argument.
        pdimitar 3y ago
        It's 50/50 and really depends on the people, this is just my 8-year old experience, I don't make it as an argument that's truthful beyond any doubt. There is also the fact that the companies I chose to work with didn't want a lot of Elixir devs and we truly made miracles happen with teams of 2 to 8 people.
        sb8244 3y ago
        This doesn't track with my experience. We scaled an org with both Ruby and Elixir (later, 1 of the 2 blessed languages) and there was no tangible difference in that way. You could also scale in other ways like microservice. Elixir plays great in that world, as pretty much every language does. Regarding one man armies. Usual way I've seen to scale is to find those one man armies and put less expensive Jr + mid engineers on their team and have them work together. I don't think that's an Elixir thing though. I'm not trying to sell Elixir here. I think it has benefits in smaller org size that mellow out and equalize as a company grows. Also, startups should always work in whatever language is most comfortable to founding team.

rio517 3y ago

Isn't this concern independent of the language? > Requiring me to churn out 3-5 features a week in the first 6 months is the best way for me to hand my resignation a mere two weeks after starting.

pdimitar 3y ago
Actually no it isn't, I was indeed mixing Elixir and non-Elixir concerns in one comment.