3 ms·

If you are suggesting that people who still use firefox hate Mitchell Baker, you are mistaken.

by actualwitch 3y ago

Vt71fcAqt7 3y ago
You're right. Some of us are using forks with Mozilla's telemetry removed.
- actualwitch 3y ago
  I can assure you, the amount of people who daily forks of ff is even smaller than the amount of people who hate Mitchell Baker.
temp0826 3y ago
Can't tell if sarcasm. Long time user (and often evangelistic) of firefox and loathe the turns she took as ceo.
- actualwitch 3y ago
  I don't know how to be any more clear, as someone who used firefox since 3.0 and talked to plenty people irl who use firefox - the haters are a vocal minority that only exists on forums.
  - temp0826 3y ago
    It's not exactly dinner table conversation, and average internet-users probably wouldn't care much about the implications of such a company and situations, sure. The misgivings aren't justified among many who are aware of the details? Shouldn't non-profits deserve some scrutiny when they're seemingly being mishandled?
    - actualwitch 3y ago
      It's rare enough to warrant a discussion in passing wherever I notice it. Usually people use it because they don't want google monopoly and I have not seen anyone have the kind of burning passion for looking into pockets of women CEO's as in the comments here. I disagree with a lot of the decisions she made, but looking at suggestions for improving ff marketshare in this thread I am happy that she was at the helm and not random hn'ers.
  - rvba 3y ago
    > the haters are a vocal minority that only exists on forums. You seem to have lost the total picture - some sort of tunnel vision due to focusing on the "forums". Firefox had a gigantic market share but lost it. Let's assume that the market share dropped from 80% to 3%. So 77% percentage points lost! So from original market share of 80%: 1) 77% users simply quit. They didnt bother to come to "the forums" to complain. They didnt like the product, so they simply stopped using it. They voted with their legs and wallets. Then there are still 3% of users that remain with firefox (of the original 80%). Those can be probably divided into few subgroups: 2) Those who dislike the direction where firefox is going - and objectively, arent they right? Product lost lots of market share (you call them "haters") 3) Those who still use the product for many reasons 4) Those who will use the product even if it is subpart and completely worse the competition. Like those sports fans that support a team even if the team is very bad. This vocal minority of zealots will defend their favorite product at all costs. Even if firefox pissed on their faces, they would come to "the forums" and write that rain is great... Are you part of group of 3 or 4?
doix 3y ago
I would assume the vast majority of Mitchell Baker haters are FF users (or rust enthusiasts?). Why else would someone hate her?
- wolverine876 3y ago
  It's part of the online 'game' to jump in on ridicule? You see it all the time, even on HN.
aunty_helen 3y ago
I am suggesting that and I'm basing that on every Mozilla does x thread I've read for the last 2-3 years. If it wasn't for the hatred, I would probably not even know this person's name.
- actualwitch 3y ago
  If you judge things based on hn threads, you'd think google is going to be bankrupt tomorrow while having 0 users. It is still the most popular search engine in the world.
  - kyleee 3y ago
    I think most people are quite aware google prints money with ads, and quite reasonably deride google for all the rest their bewildering product decisions
cpburns2009 3y ago
You're probably right because we've left. I was a Firefox advocate for the longest time. I used Firefox since v3.0, and before that Mozilla and Netscape. I only recently switched over to Brave in the past year or two. I'm doing my part to switch friends and family over too. The only thing Mozilla has accomplished in the past 10 years was releasing Rust, and that was before firing the whole team.
- actualwitch 3y ago
  What did brave accomplish that is worthy of advocacy? Shitcoin and ublock inspired adblock?
  - cpburns2009 3y ago
    Two things. First, an Android browser that's as fast as Chrome (a reskin) with a built-in ad-blocker. Sure you can install uBlock Origin on Firefox for Android but it's noticeably slower than Chrome. Second, a continuation of the old Firefox spirit as a privacy focused browser. Firefox has since lost that spirit and has been chasing after Chrome since at least 57. The shitcoins are a passing fad. Just turn them off.
    - actualwitch 3y ago
      So you discount mozilla actually implementing and maintaining a separate multiplatform browser engine and a whole ass language for that and instead find more value in forking other people's work and adding rudimentary features on top of it? I would have imagined someone who used to be firefox advocate since 3.0 to be used to getting subpar performance.
      - cpburns2009 3y ago
        Rust is independent now, and Mozilla fired most of that team a while ago. Mozilla has little to show for raking in $500 million a year from Google. Firefox never was slow on the desktop in my experience. Chrome was faster for the first few years. SpiderMonkey always lagged behind V8 in benchmarks, but general performance of the browsers has been equal since the early or mid 2010s.
tharne 3y ago
> If you are suggesting that people who still use firefox hate Mitchell Baker, you are mistaken. I dunno about that. I'm a Firefox user and I dislike Mozilla as an organization and think that Mitchell Baker is completely incompetent. The modern browser space is a shitshow and Firefox is just the least worst option out there.

If you are suggesting that people who still use firefox hate Mitchell Baker, you are mistaken.

Vt71fcAqt7 3y ago

You're right. Some of us are using forks with Mozilla's telemetry removed.

actualwitch 3y ago
I can assure you, the amount of people who daily forks of ff is even smaller than the amount of people who hate Mitchell Baker.

temp0826 3y ago

Can't tell if sarcasm. Long time user (and often evangelistic) of firefox and loathe the turns she took as ceo.

actualwitch 3y ago
I don't know how to be any more clear, as someone who used firefox since 3.0 and talked to plenty people irl who use firefox - the haters are a vocal minority that only exists on forums.
- temp0826 3y ago
  It's not exactly dinner table conversation, and average internet-users probably wouldn't care much about the implications of such a company and situations, sure. The misgivings aren't justified among many who are aware of the details? Shouldn't non-profits deserve some scrutiny when they're seemingly being mishandled?
  - actualwitch 3y ago
    It's rare enough to warrant a discussion in passing wherever I notice it. Usually people use it because they don't want google monopoly and I have not seen anyone have the kind of burning passion for looking into pockets of women CEO's as in the comments here. I disagree with a lot of the decisions she made, but looking at suggestions for improving ff marketshare in this thread I am happy that she was at the helm and not random hn'ers.
- rvba 3y ago
  > the haters are a vocal minority that only exists on forums. You seem to have lost the total picture - some sort of tunnel vision due to focusing on the "forums". Firefox had a gigantic market share but lost it. Let's assume that the market share dropped from 80% to 3%. So 77% percentage points lost! So from original market share of 80%: 1) 77% users simply quit. They didnt bother to come to "the forums" to complain. They didnt like the product, so they simply stopped using it. They voted with their legs and wallets. Then there are still 3% of users that remain with firefox (of the original 80%). Those can be probably divided into few subgroups: 2) Those who dislike the direction where firefox is going - and objectively, arent they right? Product lost lots of market share (you call them "haters") 3) Those who still use the product for many reasons 4) Those who will use the product even if it is subpart and completely worse the competition. Like those sports fans that support a team even if the team is very bad. This vocal minority of zealots will defend their favorite product at all costs. Even if firefox pissed on their faces, they would come to "the forums" and write that rain is great... Are you part of group of 3 or 4?

doix 3y ago

I would assume the vast majority of Mitchell Baker haters are FF users (or rust enthusiasts?). Why else would someone hate her?

wolverine876 3y ago
It's part of the online 'game' to jump in on ridicule? You see it all the time, even on HN.

aunty_helen 3y ago

I am suggesting that and I'm basing that on every Mozilla does x thread I've read for the last 2-3 years. If it wasn't for the hatred, I would probably not even know this person's name.

actualwitch 3y ago
If you judge things based on hn threads, you'd think google is going to be bankrupt tomorrow while having 0 users. It is still the most popular search engine in the world.
- kyleee 3y ago
  I think most people are quite aware google prints money with ads, and quite reasonably deride google for all the rest their bewildering product decisions

cpburns2009 3y ago

You're probably right because we've left. I was a Firefox advocate for the longest time. I used Firefox since v3.0, and before that Mozilla and Netscape. I only recently switched over to Brave in the past year or two. I'm doing my part to switch friends and family over too. The only thing Mozilla has accomplished in the past 10 years was releasing Rust, and that was before firing the whole team.

actualwitch 3y ago
What did brave accomplish that is worthy of advocacy? Shitcoin and ublock inspired adblock?
- cpburns2009 3y ago
  Two things. First, an Android browser that's as fast as Chrome (a reskin) with a built-in ad-blocker. Sure you can install uBlock Origin on Firefox for Android but it's noticeably slower than Chrome. Second, a continuation of the old Firefox spirit as a privacy focused browser. Firefox has since lost that spirit and has been chasing after Chrome since at least 57. The shitcoins are a passing fad. Just turn them off.
  - actualwitch 3y ago
    So you discount mozilla actually implementing and maintaining a separate multiplatform browser engine and a whole ass language for that and instead find more value in forking other people's work and adding rudimentary features on top of it? I would have imagined someone who used to be firefox advocate since 3.0 to be used to getting subpar performance.
    - cpburns2009 3y ago
      Rust is independent now, and Mozilla fired most of that team a while ago. Mozilla has little to show for raking in $500 million a year from Google. Firefox never was slow on the desktop in my experience. Chrome was faster for the first few years. SpiderMonkey always lagged behind V8 in benchmarks, but general performance of the browsers has been equal since the early or mid 2010s.

tharne 3y ago

> If you are suggesting that people who still use firefox hate Mitchell Baker, you are mistaken. I dunno about that. I'm a Firefox user and I dislike Mozilla as an organization and think that Mitchell Baker is completely incompetent. The modern browser space is a shitshow and Firefox is just the least worst option out there.