5 ms·

A New Chapter for Mozilla

48 points by brycewray 3y ago

xethos 3y ago
I cannot help but wonder just how many commenters here will start to donate to Mozilla now. I've lost count of how many "I'd love to donate, but if only Mitchell Baker weren't making such a mess of it" comments I've seen - hopefully Mozilla can get a jump with some additional funding by way of donations, and accelerate from there.
- captainmuon 3y ago
  From that statement, it's not clear to me what is going to change. I'm still in the "I'd love to donate camp". They mention corporate strategy and AI, and somewhere I read they are going to refocus on "privacy" so maybe this means their VPN product... I'd actually donate if they'd completely focus on Firefox. Maybe even better if Mozilla would spin out Firefox as a separate nonprofit or foundation.
- lurking15 3y ago
  The new CEO doesn't seem materially different from Baker imo
  - kyleee 3y ago
    Yep, that’s the worry. Time will tell.
- greatgib 3y ago
  It would be nice to be able to donate just to support the development of the browser and get in return a kind of badge of honor or mention. Like it is done for Linux Mint for example.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  I don't think I've ever read "I'd love to donate, but if only Mitchell Baker weren't making such a mess of it"; I've only read "I'd love to donate, but Mozilla won't let me donate to the browser" and similar, which AFAIK is still true.
  - camgunz 3y ago
    I mean maybe not exactly, but there's a lot of Mitchell Baker hate [0], even in this thread. [0]: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=Mitchell%20Baker&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
    - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
      Yes? There's a significant difference between hating a CEO and saying that you wouldn't donate to the org specifically because of their presence. I would suspect that the most likely case is that people objected to specific actions, not the person, and that they're not going to change their minds unless the new CEO changes how the org operates.
      - camgunz 3y ago
        I mean, there are these two comments [0] [1] from some time ago. Looking more closely at your original argument: "I'd love to donate, but if only Mitchell Baker weren't making such a mess of it"; I've only read "I'd love to donate, but Mozilla won't let me donate to the browser". First, I think a lot of the comments in the search fall under the category of "Mozilla isn't well run and I don't think they'd spend my donation well", because I think you have to file every comment about Baker's salary increasing while revenue and Firefox market share are decreasing in that folder. But second, I think the two options you gave up there are actually the same option. I think a lot of people commenting here think Firefox is the only thing that Mozilla should work on, the overwhelming majority of resources should be spent on it, and you should be able to donate directly to it. Anything else is poor management and not worthy of their donation. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36381450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36381450 [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36381450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36381450
  - nalinidash 3y ago
    This is a recommendation in mozilla connect, you can give kudos(like) to that idea for better visibility. https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/ability-to-donate-money-to-the-firefox-development-team-directly/idi-p/198 https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/ability-to-donate-money...
- methou 3y ago
  Maybe Servo, but not Mozilla, at least for now.
brycewray 3y ago
Also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39302744 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39302744
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bruceb 3y ago
Lot of words to say not much.
anotherhue 3y ago
Things I want to donate for: Core Browser Development. Google disconnection. Things I don't want to donate for: CEO inflation, marketing-tie ins, random acquisitions.
anotherhue 3y ago
> Doubling down on our core products, like Firefox THERE IS NO OTHER PRODUCT
- camgunz 3y ago
  There are: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/products/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/products/.
  - anotherhue 3y ago
    I stand by my claim.
    - camgunz 3y ago
      You can say you don't like them or they're subjectively not good, but you're wrong that there's only one. Also, Pocket is actually pretty good, and Mozilla VPN is Mullvad, which is also pretty good. I know I'm probably digging into a low-effort, dismissive comment here, but I'm hoping this isn't just flippancy.
      - westhanover 3y ago
        No one cares about those. Firefox is their only chance. Their comeback does not start with Pocket.
      - getwiththeprog 3y ago
        It is a joke which reveals the truth.
      - anotherhue 3y ago
        Obviously they advertise several products, but this is a false equivalency. Only one is too large to be developed elsewhere. Only one provides a meaningful challenge to the hegemony of webkit. The rest might as well be seen as make work programs for product managers.
dang 3y ago
Related ongoing thread: Mozilla names new CEO as it pivots to data privacy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39302744 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39302744 - Feb 2024 (331 comments)
Communitivity 3y ago
Could someone ELI5 why there is a Mozilla Foundation (a non-profit) and a Mozilla Corporation (a public-benefit but for-profit)? I hear "Refining the company’s vision and aligning the corporate and product strategy behind it" and I feel like I am back at Booz Allen (not a bad thing necessarily, for an org who's goal is to maximize profit). I have been using Firefox and its lineage since Mosaic. Only time I don't is when Firefox can't handle a website, or when required to use Chrome by work. That's even during the times when it was slower than Chrome, or had less features, as I considered using something other than Firefox a moral hazard[1]. That's because I felt I needed to support it's mission of a free open source browser with the goals of an open web, open source software, and user rights. Cut to today. Firefox is funded mostly by Google fees for search defaults, according to what I read (81% in 2022) [2]. There is a Mozilla Foundation and a Mozilla Corporation. Presumably the Mozilla Corporation hires developers, is everything they write Open Source, or are there some proprietary bits? I did find that the Mozilla Corporation is a public benefit company, which is something. I also found it is a subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation (no idea how that could work). However, the announcement [3] of the Mozilla Corporation does not mention the rationale for why a corporation is needed in addition to the foundation. I wouldn't think revenue exceeding a certain amount would be it, because it's not profit if it goes right back out in awareness campaigns or developer sponsorship, right? [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/moralhazard.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/moralhazard.asp [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation#:~:text=its%20parent%20company.-,Finances,default%20search%20engine%20in%20Firefox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation#:~:text=it.... [3] https://www-archive.mozilla.org/press/mozilla-2005-08-03.html?_gl=1*nr1opw*_ga*MTM2MDUzNDAyLjE2OTU4MjU4ODM.*_ga_MQ7767QQQW*MTcwNzQ4NzIyOC4xLjEuMTcwNzQ4NzM1NS4wLjAuMA https://www-archive.mozilla.org/press/mozilla-2005-08-03.htm.....

48 points by brycewray 3y ago

I cannot help but wonder just how many commenters here will start to donate to Mozilla now. I've lost count of how many "I'd love to donate, but if only Mitchell Baker weren't making such a mess of it" comments I've seen - hopefully Mozilla can get a jump with some additional funding by way of donations, and accelerate from there.

captainmuon 3y ago
From that statement, it's not clear to me what is going to change. I'm still in the "I'd love to donate camp". They mention corporate strategy and AI, and somewhere I read they are going to refocus on "privacy" so maybe this means their VPN product... I'd actually donate if they'd completely focus on Firefox. Maybe even better if Mozilla would spin out Firefox as a separate nonprofit or foundation.
lurking15 3y ago
The new CEO doesn't seem materially different from Baker imo
- kyleee 3y ago
  Yep, that’s the worry. Time will tell.
greatgib 3y ago
It would be nice to be able to donate just to support the development of the browser and get in return a kind of badge of honor or mention. Like it is done for Linux Mint for example.
yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
I don't think I've ever read "I'd love to donate, but if only Mitchell Baker weren't making such a mess of it"; I've only read "I'd love to donate, but Mozilla won't let me donate to the browser" and similar, which AFAIK is still true.
- camgunz 3y ago
  I mean maybe not exactly, but there's a lot of Mitchell Baker hate [0], even in this thread. [0]: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=Mitchell%20Baker&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    Yes? There's a significant difference between hating a CEO and saying that you wouldn't donate to the org specifically because of their presence. I would suspect that the most likely case is that people objected to specific actions, not the person, and that they're not going to change their minds unless the new CEO changes how the org operates.
    - camgunz 3y ago
      I mean, there are these two comments [0] [1] from some time ago. Looking more closely at your original argument: "I'd love to donate, but if only Mitchell Baker weren't making such a mess of it"; I've only read "I'd love to donate, but Mozilla won't let me donate to the browser". First, I think a lot of the comments in the search fall under the category of "Mozilla isn't well run and I don't think they'd spend my donation well", because I think you have to file every comment about Baker's salary increasing while revenue and Firefox market share are decreasing in that folder. But second, I think the two options you gave up there are actually the same option. I think a lot of people commenting here think Firefox is the only thing that Mozilla should work on, the overwhelming majority of resources should be spent on it, and you should be able to donate directly to it. Anything else is poor management and not worthy of their donation. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36381450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36381450 [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36381450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36381450
- nalinidash 3y ago
  This is a recommendation in mozilla connect, you can give kudos(like) to that idea for better visibility. https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/ability-to-donate-money-to-the-firefox-development-team-directly/idi-p/198 https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/ability-to-donate-money...
methou 3y ago
Maybe Servo, but not Mozilla, at least for now.

brycewray 3y ago

Also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39302744 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39302744

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bruceb 3y ago

Lot of words to say not much.

anotherhue 3y ago

Things I want to donate for: Core Browser Development. Google disconnection. Things I don't want to donate for: CEO inflation, marketing-tie ins, random acquisitions.

anotherhue 3y ago

> Doubling down on our core products, like Firefox THERE IS NO OTHER PRODUCT

camgunz 3y ago
There are: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/products/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/products/.
- anotherhue 3y ago
  I stand by my claim.
  - camgunz 3y ago
    You can say you don't like them or they're subjectively not good, but you're wrong that there's only one. Also, Pocket is actually pretty good, and Mozilla VPN is Mullvad, which is also pretty good. I know I'm probably digging into a low-effort, dismissive comment here, but I'm hoping this isn't just flippancy.
    - westhanover 3y ago
      No one cares about those. Firefox is their only chance. Their comeback does not start with Pocket.
    - getwiththeprog 3y ago
      It is a joke which reveals the truth.
    - anotherhue 3y ago
      Obviously they advertise several products, but this is a false equivalency. Only one is too large to be developed elsewhere. Only one provides a meaningful challenge to the hegemony of webkit. The rest might as well be seen as make work programs for product managers.

dang 3y ago

Related ongoing thread: Mozilla names new CEO as it pivots to data privacy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39302744 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39302744 - Feb 2024 (331 comments)

Communitivity 3y ago

Could someone ELI5 why there is a Mozilla Foundation (a non-profit) and a Mozilla Corporation (a public-benefit but for-profit)? I hear "Refining the company’s vision and aligning the corporate and product strategy behind it" and I feel like I am back at Booz Allen (not a bad thing necessarily, for an org who's goal is to maximize profit). I have been using Firefox and its lineage since Mosaic. Only time I don't is when Firefox can't handle a website, or when required to use Chrome by work. That's even during the times when it was slower than Chrome, or had less features, as I considered using something other than Firefox a moral hazard[1]. That's because I felt I needed to support it's mission of a free open source browser with the goals of an open web, open source software, and user rights. Cut to today. Firefox is funded mostly by Google fees for search defaults, according to what I read (81% in 2022) [2]. There is a Mozilla Foundation and a Mozilla Corporation. Presumably the Mozilla Corporation hires developers, is everything they write Open Source, or are there some proprietary bits? I did find that the Mozilla Corporation is a public benefit company, which is something. I also found it is a subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation (no idea how that could work). However, the announcement [3] of the Mozilla Corporation does not mention the rationale for why a corporation is needed in addition to the foundation. I wouldn't think revenue exceeding a certain amount would be it, because it's not profit if it goes right back out in awareness campaigns or developer sponsorship, right? [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/moralhazard.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/moralhazard.asp [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation#:~:text=its%20parent%20company.-,Finances,default%20search%20engine%20in%20Firefox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation#:~:text=it.... [3] https://www-archive.mozilla.org/press/mozilla-2005-08-03.html?_gl=1*nr1opw*_ga*MTM2MDUzNDAyLjE2OTU4MjU4ODM.*_ga_MQ7767QQQW*MTcwNzQ4NzIyOC4xLjEuMTcwNzQ4NzM1NS4wLjAuMA https://www-archive.mozilla.org/press/mozilla-2005-08-03.htm.....