19 ms·

How iTunes Is Changing on PC

107 points by akyuu 3y ago

donatj 3y ago
iTunes is sticking around on Windows but will just be for audio books and podcasts? That’s absolutely bizarre.
- tecleandor 3y ago
  iTunes... but no tunes in it? :P
  - chrisjj 3y ago
    Tunes are permitted ... provided they are in audio books ;)
- gruez 3y ago
  ...only if you also install apple music or apple tv. If you don't you can still use it for music/videos. >When you install the Apple Music or Apple TV app, you can only use those apps for your music, TV shows, and movies; you can continue to use iTunes to listen to your audiobooks and podcasts.
  - iggldiggl 3y ago
    While offline playback will be unaffected, I wonder how long iTunes's connection to the iTunes store ecosystem will keep working and whether you'll eventually be forced to install Apple Music for accessing the iTunes store?
- rchaud 3y ago
  Messy branding is now par for the course at Apple. The iPad line alone is something out of a Dell catalog: iPad, iPad 10thgen, iPad Air, iPad Mini, iPad Pro.
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    The only one that really sticks out as odd there is the 10th gen. Basic, Air, Pro is also their laptop lineup, right—it has been for quite a while, and nobody has complained. Mini seems like a reasonable and easy to interpret addition give tablet use-cases. I’m guessing the 10th gen is the one with the super long support lifetime or something like that? That’s a slightly weird iPad-ism.
    - Kwpolska 3y ago
      > Basic, Air, Pro is also their laptop lineup In the most recent iteration of this lineup, the 12-inch MacBook was comically underpowered, especially for its price, there was no good reason to purchase that instead of an Air or a Pro. This was also quite short-lived, with an official discontinuation after four years.
      - bee_rider 3y ago
        Huh, I didn’t know they’d dropped the basic model. It always made sense to me, at least: “pro” is premium in a power direction, “air” is premium in a lightness direction, and the base model is just the base model. But I guess it is unsurprising that Apple doesn’t want to do a base model, haha. Another way of looking at it, I guess, is just that it is an evolutionary process, and every MacBook is a descendent of the Air now.
        Kwpolska 3y ago
        The 2015-2019 12-inch MacBooks had zero benefits over MacBook Air, maybe other than the Retina screens, until the release of the 2018 Retina MacBook Air. Other than that, they had CPUs <= 1.4 GHz, a single USB-C port, and even the camera was only 480p. They were never cheaper than the base model of the 13-inch MacBook Air.
        bee_rider 3y ago
        Oh wow. It did seem like an odd device, but I thought they were at least cheaper than the Airs. How strange of them.
- al_borland 3y ago
  I assume this is to cover the gaps in the new apps. In macOS they moved extra stuff to Finder. It seems the device sync app might make more sense on Windows. Maybe that will happening in time.
- dangus 3y ago
  It’s weird branding. Your local music and iTunes purchases live in the Music app. Apple Music the service also lives in the Music app. (Music purchased on iTunes can be downloaded directly to the device without syncing, but you need to manually sync with your computer to transfer over music that you acquired elsewhere. Either that or you subscribe to the iTunes Match service assuming that sticks around) Basically, in the PC version of these apps the main difference compared to Mac seems to be that Apple didn’t split Podcasts and Audibooks into separate apps. They’re just mushed into an app that’s weirdly called iTunes. I feel like they should have clumsily but less confusingly called it “Apple Podcasts and Audiobooks”
nailer 3y ago
I recently tried Apple Music and then gave up because it didn’t support podcasts and the podcast apps that exist in the Apple ecosystem aren’t as good as Spotify
- basisword 3y ago
  >> the podcast apps that exist in the Apple ecosystem aren’t as good as Spotify Do you mean Spotify is better because it's all in one? Or specifically as a podcast client it's better? Because, as a podcast client, Spotify is shockingly bad. Perhaps the worst podcast client available. Apple Podcasts, Overcast, and Pocketcasts are all much, much better.
  - subtra3t 3y ago
    To each their own. I personally like Spotify (as a podcast client) just the way it is, it does what I want it to.
    - niek_pas 3y ago
      > it does what I want it to This is Spotify's main advantage: most people already have it installed, and it's good enough if you don't care that much about the podcast-listening experience.
      - nytesky 3y ago
        Did they really invest in Rogan and podcasts just to keep their existing customers? I thought it was to entice podcast connoisseurs to the Spotify platform, who WILL care about podcast listening experience?
      - thenbe 3y ago
        I was in this boat. Now I'd really like to get off. The UI is bad but I got used to bad. But I've been asked to change my password *checks email* 10 (!) times in the last few months. I don't share my password with anyone, but I do use a VPN. Anyways, I can't seem to find a suitable alternative that will keep track of my listening progress across both linux and iOS.
anotherhue 3y ago
I wanted to use Music on a windows PC that has a good DAC attached and I was politely told that they don't support security keys on windows. No alternative. No 'get a code on another device', just PFO.
- SigmundurM 3y ago
  Could Cider[1] be what you're looking for? It's basically a open source frontend for Apple Music that works on Linux and Windows. It's what I use to listen to my Apple Music songs on Linux, and it's amazing. [1]: https://cider.sh/ https://cider.sh/
  - anotherhue 3y ago
    There's a web interface that could be used, but I wanted to use the high-res mode with this DAC. First world problems of course, but just needlessly frustrating.
    - SigmundurM 3y ago
      They're currently working on a complete remake of Cider [1], which is "powered by Rust. With a partial shift away from Electron". That might fit your needs? The latest release, v2.3.0, also supports forcing the player to use 256kbps[2] [1]: https://cidercollective.itch.io/cider https://cidercollective.itch.io/cider [2]: https://cidercollective.itch.io/cider/devlog/674855/cider-v230 https://cidercollective.itch.io/cider/devlog/674855/cider-v2...
      - anotherhue 3y ago
        I believe the DRM Apple adds makes the Hi-Res options exceedingly difficult to access from outside of their platform.
        SigmundurM 3y ago
        Cider seemed to struggle just getting the 256kbps. So getting the lossless options, are not gonna be any easier, but hopefully Cider can figure it out with time!
guspillk 3y ago
I'm still waiting for a new Amarok...
- biggestfan 3y ago
  Assuming you mean the pre-2.0 Amarok, you might be interested in Strawberry: https://www.strawberrymusicplayer.org/ https://www.strawberrymusicplayer.org/ It's a a fork of a fork of the old Amarok, supporting more features and modern support while retaining the original UI.
eudoraexplora 3y ago
I like how Apple's page starts with "When iTunes was originally released, it had everything you needed to be entertained. Now, there are individual apps for all your media" - yes, exactly! That's the problem!
- Manfred 3y ago
  What is exactly the problem with individual apps in your opinion? This not a weird jab, I'm actually curious.
  - chrisjj 3y ago
    What's the problem with using one app for all audio files? I don't see why a user should be forced to use different apps depending on the type of the audio content.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Podcats (I use Overcast) are pretty different from music and I wouldn't generally intermix them. And you already have Library and Streaming modes of Apple Music so podcasts would be yet another mode.
      - whywhywhywhy 3y ago
        On the other hand Apple Music already has audio streaming and playback and a Library mode so should Podcasts write their own? While yeah debundled separate apps will make probably the main use case of what was the bundled app better it also likely leads to stagnation and buggier experiences over time in the apps where the less popular features were debundled into. Like all knowledge and talent required to code the Audiobooks app is the same as whats required to code the Music app so which team would you rather be on given the choice.
      - iggldiggl 3y ago
        The things is that iTunes also allows you to manually reclassify you media files as a podcast, and I found (still do, actually) that very useful for managing my collection of radio comedy scrounged together from all sorts of places (downloads from BBC iPlayer, downloads from various places collecting that kinds of shows, a very few genuine podcasts). That way I could keep them out of the main music library, gain the listened/unlistened episode display and playback position tracking, and still easily sync them over to my phone [1]. Without iTunes, I would have to set up some fake local podcast feed on my computer to get those episodes into the podcast app of my choice instead. [1] Using iSyncr + Rocket Player after switching from an iPod to an Android phone – sadly those apps were sold by the original developer two years ago, though, and the new owners are seemingly just trying to turn them into a cash grab, so I cannot recommend them any more, though for now the old versions sort of keep working, albeit you need a rooted phone to work around some issues.
A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
As long as I can still move pictures from wife's phone. Still, this is such an annoying change. As in, Itunes on PC always sucked, but it did not occur to me that Apple would want to actively make it worse. edit: This reminds me. Wasn't there a FOSS project that has most of Itunes functionality?
- Terretta 3y ago
  They didn't make it worse. If you don't want to change, don't install the replacement apps.
  - chrisjj 3y ago
    How is preventing you playing music if you install another app not worse?
    - WorldMaker 3y ago
      If the other app is better and worth installing?
      - chrisjj 3y ago
        That doesn't avoid this worsening of iTunes. At best it merely avoids some users caring.
    - Terretta 3y ago
      But they didn't do that, you did that, by installing the other app. If you don't install the other app, iTunes is the same. You indicated a preference for the new Music experience by installing it. If you don't indicate that preference, iTunes doesn't change.
      - chrisjj 3y ago
        > But they didn't do that, you did that, by installing the other app. They did it by making the new app disable functionality of the existing. > You indicated a preference for the new Music experience by installing it. By that insane logic, installing e.g. Edge would justifably prevent use of Chrome.
missjellyfish 3y ago
I like how they fail to mention that the Apple Music App on Windows is hot garbage riddled with bugs. A few weeks ago they broke reordering of upcoming songs, the "play next" feature and I don't know what else. I have submitted bug reports with exact steps, reproducible on at least two accounts on five different conmputers. Haven't heared back, doubt I'll ever will. Anyone can recommend a streaming service that isn't Apple Music, Spotify or YouTube Music? Bonus points if I can just add a plugin to my old trusty winamp to use it.
- pier25 3y ago
  The Apple Music app on macOS is also hot garage.
  - aniforprez 3y ago
    Apple TV is also somehow hot garbage I don't understand. These are "just" media players and all split up to do one thing each. How do they all do that one thing so miserably. TV hangs for multiple seconds every single time I download or delete episodes of TV shows and the player is so incredibly bad and doesn't save your progress properly
    - fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
      Huh, it never occurred to me that you could download episodes on an Apple TV. What’s the use-case? I download shows on my iPad so I can watch them when I’m traveling without internet, but my Apple TV is always plugged in. Intermittent connectivity in the home? Maybe bugs stick around because the feature is rarely used?
      - abhinavk 3y ago
        It's small enough to be carried when you are traveling. You could take it to hotels.
      - aniforprez 3y ago
        I'm not talking about the device btw. I am indeed talking about the TV app that comes preinstalled on Apple devices. I watch from my Macbook. The TV app is confusingly also Apple TV with a subscription service called Apple TV+ My use case is I've found that, for reasons unknown, the streaming quality is worse than if I download the episodes. Streaming always stays at 720p or lower whereas downloading gets me 1080p every time. And being able to watch things when I move around even with spotty internet
totetsu 3y ago
Foobar2000 is still working just the same as it did when iTunes came out.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  And VLC plays for sure. I was just looking at videos captured by a (wild) game camera and the Microsoft Media Player could only play some of them, I was sure they would play with VLC and they were right.
mbostleman 3y ago
iTunes? What is that?
- timbit42 3y ago
  It sounds like a radio app you tune yourself. Could be for helping you tune your musical instruments.
369548684892826 3y ago
I guess by PC they mean Windows, or they also support BSD now?
- trelane 3y ago
  Since OSX has a lot of BSD... they kind of did already
- david422 3y ago
  They've always had their "hi I'm a mac", "hi I'm a PC" commercials.
- randomdata 3y ago
  Windows hasn't been personal since 'Me'. The NT line was always a multiuser system. Does iTunes even support those old versions of Windows?
emsy 3y ago
Thanks, I hate it. I tried to transfer some audiobooks I have using iTunes and it didn't work. The music app is buggy as hell. I'm not sure if Apple wants me to buy a Mac or switch to Android but I'll probably go with the latter.
- cyberax 3y ago
  Don't worry. Music app on macOS is also buggy as hell.
emptyfile 3y ago
[dead]
seam_carver 3y ago
Me with the old version of itunes that has an app store
mattmaroon 3y ago
iTunes on PC has always been so much worse than iTunes on Mac. I was on Android for awhile in no small part due to having tried to use iTunes with an iPhone (remember when you had to do that?) and hating it. Apple’s podcast apps have been second rate since the very early days also. So they should just give iTunes for PC the Viking funeral it deserves.
- CharlesW 3y ago
  > iTunes on PC has always been so much worse than iTunes on Mac. Like Flutter, its unfixable jankiness comes from not using native controls. Anyone using iTunes for Windows is really using a bit of pre-X Mac OS in the form of Carbon/QTML. This is surely one of the reasons that Apple is gradually giving iTunes for Windows that Viking funeral you're asking for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTime#QuickTime_2.x https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTime#QuickTime_2.x
datadrivenangel 3y ago
So what is the best app these for listening to your own music collection? VLC?!?
- lxgr 3y ago
  Does Apple Music (the app) no longer support that? It does on macOS, even without a subscription. Also, foobar2000 of course.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Apple Music is mostly fine. And as long as you're going to sync to an iPhone, it probably doesn't make sense to use a different app. (Though I use VLC for other things.)
- sumtechguy 3y ago
  Mediamonkey is pretty good. I held onto media player as long as I could, but MS just made it worse on every iteration.
- teeray 3y ago
  I’m liking Jellyfin’s music support for my giant collection of FLACs (other formats are supported). I can pull it up on any browser (don’t need to install anything on my work PC). There’s also an iOS app called Fintunes that provides a great native music-listening experience.
  - NamTaf 3y ago
    Finamp is another iOS app which, importantly for me, supports offline playback via downloading locally.
- f_kai 3y ago
  I currently run Plex on my home media server, a long with Plexamp for streaming to my mobile device. Works like a charm.
  - 3y ago
chrisjj 3y ago
So how will iTunes now actually prevent me from playing a WAV music file? Will it first analyse the content for music-ness?
xnx 3y ago
This is a shame. iTunes on Windows has been pretty good for bulk ID3 tag editing. Feels like a decent chance capabilities will be removed in the future.
- sumtechguy 3y ago
  mp3tag and picard are what I use for most of my tagging.
sahaskatta 3y ago
I tried to use this, but it appears that Apple TV and Apple Music doesn't support iCloud / Apple ID accounts with 2FA enabled on Windows?
bni 3y ago
It's strange that Apple keep this Windows software around. Is there really a lot of people on Windows that actually use this?
- whywhywhywhy 3y ago
  Yeah if you're a creative professional you often have a Macbook for web, presentations, comms, coding, photoshopping, design then a PC for video editing, AI and 3D.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  Every iPhone user that needed recover mode, or downloaded file to device sync, or needed some other software that requires the iTunes drivers.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  I feel like this is largely Apple realizing that their iPhone, iPad, and even Mac customers sometimes need to use Windows. Given this also went along with an iCloud for Windows redesign. Instead of them fighting Windows, make the experience slightly better for their customers which really just helps keep them in your Ecosystem, just slightly expanded.
- thesuitonym 3y ago
  iPhone/iPad is a gateway to the Apple ecosystem. If a Windows users couldn't share their media with their phone, they may never buy any Apple hardware at all.
- mysteria 3y ago
  I use it for local backups of iOS devices, not for music.
- Macha 3y ago
  I think the Windows client will live as long as the iTunes Store. Which I was sort of more confident about when it seemed to just be in a forgotten corner of Apple somewhere just ticking along. Now it's clear someone has come up with a strategy™, I think there's more risk they might screw with both to push people into subscription services, and I can't help but see an iTunes Store shutdown as being the beginning of the end for digital music sales.
tfandango 3y ago
I hope ability to get photos off iPhones is improved. I can NEVER get it to fully work for more than a few pictures. I know we are supposed to sync them to the cloud now but it's nice to be able to put them on the big drive on the PC sometimes too.
- SirMaster 3y ago
  Hmm, I have never had a problem dragging and dropping them off my iPhone via the device that shows up in the My Computer screen when I plug my phone in via USB. I have done it this way since forever.
  - yardstick 3y ago
    Sounds like you are doing a few photos at a time? My library count is now over 200k photos. It worries me that it is almost impossible to get a guaranteed backup of them from iCloud to local storage. Even when I tick the box in Mac photos app to store originals, from my own testing I’ve found lots of images are still only locally loaded when first viewed. Not great for making local backups!
    - SirMaster 3y ago
      Typically several hundred to 1-2K at most I guess. A mixture of regular, raw, and videos. Everything has always transferred off just fine at least for me. For a huge library like that I would go with a reliable software like iMazing.
    - jazzyjackson 3y ago
      I downloaded my iCloud library from privacy.apple.com, you can request a copy of your data there. It will take a few days before they send you a link that expires in a week but you'll get your whole library in 50GB zipped chunks.
  - tfandango 3y ago
    I have tried it both this way and via some tool like import via MS Photos and earlier Picasa. It works for a while but after a few hundred photos, just seems to die. I've had this problem on every PC I own, with all iPhones I own, using a ton of different USB wires and ports. And it seems to degrade over time somehow, the first attempt I might get 200 photos moved, then the next time I get 20. Stuff like that. I assume it was related to the driver because when it stops working, the phone disappears from the file explorer. Of course, it could totally be me somehow, but I've tried everything I know to eliminate user error.
karaterobot 3y ago
Has iTunes on Windows ever been good? I think I tried it in 2003-4, and it was garbage then, so I uninstalled it. In the intervening 20 years, I've never heard anyone say "it's good now!", so I never re-installed it. I assumed that if you were a dedicated Windows user, you just wouldn't use iTunes, and if you weren't a dedicated Windows user but loved your iPhone, you'd do what Apple wanted you to do in the first place, and switch to MacOS.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  I’m dedicated to Linux but I like my iPhone. iPhones are more-or-less standalone devices nowadays. They can backup straight to iCloud. The only thing I’d need to borrow a Mac for, as far as I know, is a factory-reset. I last used iTunes on windows in like 2010 or so, I think. It was pretty awful. Although, it did have a neat feature, you could share your library over the lan, so it was neat to listen to other people’s music in a dorm. I’m sure they’ve removed that feature by now, it was too good to be true.
  - freeplay 3y ago
    If the phone is functional (as in you can access the Settings app), you can factory reset from the phone, as well. You can also remote wipe from Find My if need be.
    - bee_rider 3y ago
      True! Actually, I have an ancient iPad that I’ve forgotten the pin for. I think I’d need a Mac to reset it. Fortunately the reason I forgot the pin is that I got a laptop and stopped using the iPad as my SSH client as a result, haha, so recovery is not really a pressing issue.
- bdcravens 3y ago
  It used to be a required piece of software for setting up your iPhone/iPad.
  - 3y ago
teeray 3y ago
> iTunes remains the home for your audiobooks and free podcasts. More like noTunes then
purpleblue 3y ago
Every PM who worked on iTunes should be cancelled from the tech industry. Having iTunes on your resume should be the Mark of Cain as far as I'm concerned. I've never had the displeasure of working on a more terrible piece of software in my life and it shouldn't be this bad. Shame on everyone who worked on it, even though given Apple stock price, they are likely 8 or 9 figure millionaires.
ben-schaaf 3y ago
So can I buy and download music from Apple Music, or is purchasing songs going away entirely?
- CharlesW 3y ago
  You can buy and download music from Apple Music on Windows. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213733#:~:text=How%20to%20buy%20music%20from%20the%20iTunes%20Store%20in%20the%20Apple%20Music%20app%20for%20Windows https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213733#:~:text=How%20to%20...
draxil 3y ago
From a distance: So iTUNES isn't the music app? Seems confusing :)
Night_Thastus 3y ago
Until iTunes gets better about specifying the exact level of quality of the music tracks I'm buying, it's still a no-go for me.
- CharlesW 3y ago
  Purchased tracks are either 256 kbps AAC or ALAC (Apple Lossless). It's worth noting that Apple's AAC encoder beats everything else (I've done lots of testing), even though at 256 kbps this isn't a huge consideration. Their Apple Digital Masters program (formerly Mastered for iTunes or "MFiT") offers guidance and tools for labels, which is why Apple's iTunes catalog offers such consistently high quality. https://www.apple.com/apple-music/apple-digital-masters/docs/apple-digital-masters.pdf https://www.apple.com/apple-music/apple-digital-masters/docs...
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    I keep most of my music in Jellyfin (at least most of the stereo as opposed to 5.1 music) I wrote a Python script that would download chosen albums from the server, run them through the Apple's command line AAC encoder, cache the results, and then carefully copy them in the right order to an exFAT file system on a USB stick that I use in my car. I've been wanting to add a lot of Super Furry Animals albums to that stick but my mac mini died last year and I wasn't in a hurry to get a new mac. From time to time I think about pulling the SSD out of it and getting the Python script running on my Linux server, I could either use a MP3 encoder like LAME (always encoding at a high bit rate so it's going to be OK) but I do hear people have cheated to get the Apple AAC encoder to run on other OS https://www.andrews-corner.org/qaac.html https://www.andrews-corner.org/qaac.html I've used the same software to pack up music for my Garmin watch and for that I do use AAC Pro at 96kbps because I figure in the gym or out on a run it is a noisy environment. For that the Apple encoder really is superior to alternatives.
ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
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at_a_remove 3y ago
Someone local has some kind of i-device (iPod? iTouch? He doesn't remember) from which he would like to extract copies of the music on it. I'm not even sure what to do. I have heard so many horror stories of iTunes just trashing libraries ... I'm not even sure what I would search for in terms of Windows software or what kind of cable I would need. And Apple's branding is so ... operationally overloaded, overlapping, whatever, I'm confused.
- dddddaviddddd 3y ago
  Apple's software won't let you do that, you'll need something third-party. If you're lucky, the device will be old enough to jailbreak to get full access to the file system.
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    > Apple's software won't let you do that… I believe that's incorrect: https://support.apple.com/guide/itunes/transfer-files-itns32636/windows https://support.apple.com/guide/itunes/transfer-files-itns32... Also see: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/transfer-music-ipod-computer/ https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/transfer-music-ipod-computer/
- miles 3y ago
  Over the years, I've had success with both of these third-party apps on Macs and PCs to do exactly that: Transfer Music from iPhone, iPad, & iPod to your Mac or PC https://macroplant.com/iexplorer/tutorials/how-to-transfer-music-and-playlists https://macroplant.com/iexplorer/tutorials/how-to-transfer-m... Transfer iPhone & iPod Music to your Computer or to iTunes https://imazing.com/iphone-music-transfer https://imazing.com/iphone-music-transfer
  - at_a_remove 3y ago
    This question seems a little dumb, perhaps less so in terms of our DRM world: by "transfer" does that mean move or copy? Because we're hoping to copy, not move.
dbrueck 3y ago
I love iTunes, in the sense that I credit it with being the thing that got me to abandon the Apple ecosystem. I don't miss the constant battle with that cursed program.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
PaulHoule 3y ago
iTunes makes the crapplets that other companies (including Microsoft) look great.
yenwodyah 3y ago
> If you don’t install Apple Music or Apple TV, you can continue to use iTunes for all your media. … so why would I install either of those? What’s actually changing if I only have iTunes installed?
- Supernaut 3y ago
  This. I've got iTunes 12.13 installed on my PC and everything works in exactly the same way that it always has.
  - iggldiggl 3y ago
    The interesting thing is – what will happen in the future? Will they continue maintaining the parts of iTunes that are now being duplicated by the Apple Music app? This being Windows, at least you're not being forced to immediately upgrade like it happens on a Mac (where those things are seemingly tied to your version of macOS) and in the case of eventual breakage can continue using a previous version indefinitely, but that leads to the next question – on the off chance that you do want to use the iTunes store, too, how long will that keep working with old iTunes versions?
- quitit 3y ago
  Is this not just unbundling to appease regulators who assert that putting everything in one app is anticompetitive?
incanus77 3y ago
The phrase “everything you needed to be entertained” is indicative of the biggest problem that I see with Apple today: a focus on consumerism and passive consumption. Twenty years ago, iTunes’ emphasis was on collecting, experiencing, and enjoying an art form. It’s a very subtle difference, but it speaks to the attitude that Apple projects today. When was the last time the intersection with the humanities was mentioned, versus how sleek and desirable the technology is?
- breathen 3y ago
  > Twenty years ago, iTunes’ emphasis was on collecting, experiencing, and enjoying an art form. This was (and is) also a blatant form of consumerism. I honestly don't see any difference in the negative effects on this outside of going through apple rather than my local FYE.
  - incanus77 3y ago
    Sure, Apple aligned itself in a way that ultimately added to its and its partners’ bottom lines. But somehow, the company’s attitude felt aspirational to me in a way that it does not today.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      Then you fell for the lifestyle advertising. Simple as that
      - incanus77 3y ago
        I can see your point. For me personally, though, the progression was: 1. Like the look & feel of Apple hardware 2. Feel like the iPod/iTunes scene is shiny bullshit, but whatever 3. Buy a laptop & figure I'll give OS X a shot, if not install Linux 4. Fall in love with the ability to really get some work done rather than have to futz with my system all the time (despite loving to futz with my system) 5. Eventually, become an Apple platform developer
  - 3y ago
secondcoming 3y ago
This is one bit of software I've always refused to install.
wackget 3y ago
I use an old version of iTunes on Windows and haven't found anything better, for the following reasons: 1. It has a taskbar player, which is a tiny strip of media controls which sits in your taskbar. AFAIK the only other player to offer this is Windows Media Player. 2. It has the best-looking (for me) GUI with the column browser etc. 3. You can use parental controls to disable all the crap like the store/videos/radio/etc. to make a very minimalist player. The only problem I have with it is that older versions don't sync correctly with modern devices (iPod, iPhone, etc.) but there are workarounds for this using a virtual machine: https://www.tersetechtips.com/how-to-keep-using-an-old-version-of-itunes-on-windows-with-a-modern-iphone-ipad-ipod/ https://www.tersetechtips.com/how-to-keep-using-an-old-versi...
- toast0 3y ago
  > 1. It has a taskbar player, which is a tiny strip of media controls which sits in your taskbar. AFAIK the only other player to offer this is Windows Media Player. In the taskbar meaning where you select applications that can maybe show the window title but by default is just icons these days? Or the in the notification area / system tray? If the later, Winamp has a bundled plugin for that, and I believe Foobar2000 does too.
  - wackget 3y ago
    It's the former.
pipeline_peak 3y ago
TIL iTunes is still a thing, even on Windows
bhauer 3y ago
I was briefly excited to hear they had separated media synchronization from the atrocity of iTunes. I just experimented with the "Apple Devices App" for PC. Unfortunately, the experience has been poor, which is what I should have anticipated given Apple's track record for PC software. First, the linked documentation provides no information about where to get the Apple Devices App. It turns out, it's only available from the Microsoft App Store. Fair enough, but odd that the documentation never says that. Second concern: yikes, this synchronization app is 188 Mb in size. But whatever, I have tons of storage on my PC, so let's proceed. The final and biggest issue: the app simply never recognizes my phone. The phone is unlocked and has trusted the computer. It shows up in Windows Explorer as a storage device (significantly hobbled by Apple's needless file system obfuscation, but that's not new). The Apple Devices App never stops saying "Connect a device to proceed." All told, a typical Apple software experience. If Android weren't so awful, I'd be much happier. The way Android devices appear as just a standard storage device with a normal file system is so much easier to deal with.
- NoPedantsThanks 3y ago
  Apple's fear of proper I/O strikes again. Forcing customers to use a shitty JUKEBOX app to manage all the content (including applications) on a handheld Unix computer was embarrassing on day one. But after a decade... and then more... it's offensive to those customers. Now they made the already-shambolic Windows situation even worse. It's bad enough on Mac, where the videos you shot yourself inexplicably wind up in the "TV" app now. Why the hell would you look in Apple TV for stuff you shot on your phone?
  - TheNightman 3y ago
    Never had a problem like this on Mac. When I shoot a video on my iPhone, it’s in the photo library on my Mac. Same with downloads, photos, passwords, safari tabs, clipboard and more. No transferring of files required at all, let alone through the Apple TV app?
    - NoPedantsThanks 3y ago
robomartin 3y ago
I gave up on iTunes on PC and Apple Music in general a very long time ago (iPhone 3 era). iTunes is just a mess. It's the software equivalent of a badly executed all-in-one printer, scanner and fax. Has it improved? No clue. I haven't bothered with it other than for backups. My complaint about Apple Music is very simple: For some incomprehensible reason they make playing an entire album or albums, in order, as recorded, impossible. Take works such as Brandenburg concerto and a bunch of classical work or most of Pink Floyd's albums. In Windows Media Player I can listen to this work as intended, in the order the album was recorded. I can easily create a playlist of albums and play them back as recorded. With Apple Music, last I looked, this was still impossible. I own a large library of CD's. I transferred all of them to Windows Media and clan play recorded works as intended without having to handle the physical media. Again, last I looked, this is impossible with Apple Music. The couple of attempts I made over the years were nothing less than disastrous exercises in futility. Not sure what ideological or business basis Apple uses to effectively destroy an artist's creation and refuse to deliver it as intended. It is clear that selling single songs might be one of these motivating factors. OK, I get it. And this might even make sense for much of the large body of popular music. However, there are works of art that are not one hit wonders and, in my opinion, deserve the respect, consideration and option to experience them as intended.
gwbas1c 3y ago
Does it seem strange that "iTunes" is for audiobooks and podcasts? Maybe it's time to retire the name "iTunes," or have "iTunes" be the name of a suite?
- kabdib 3y ago
  You can tell which team that lost the turf war and has to maintain the old code. Pity them.
WoodenChair 3y ago
What technology are the new Windows Music and TV apps built using?
paulrpotts 3y ago
iTunes was a complex mess with too much functionality in one app, but for many years it worked really well for me. Replacing it with the new apps has been a process of removing functionality I relied on, obfuscating and making less user-friendly existing functionality, and pushing people into using cloud services. Some examples: - Older versions of iTunes had a great "home sharing" function that allowed sharing the library with devices running iTunes on the LAN. I used this very extensively. iTunes running on my 2008 Mac Pro still runs the server, and there is kinda-sorta client functionality in Apple Music, a bit hidden, but it is not reliable (constantly disconnects mid-song). Also, there was never an iOS client which would stream from this server. There were some half-baked attempts at open-source apps that would do it, but Apple broke them by encrypting the streaming across my own LAN. - iTunes stored podcast and audiobook files in a simple and transparent way. Now podcasts (accessed using the separate Apple Podcasts app) are stored buried in Library subdirectories with long gibberish filenames. Although they're really just MP3 files with extra tags, it's now very difficult to just grab an episode by filename and save it elsewhere or forward it to a friend. - iTunes had best-in-class tag editing. Apple Music's tag editing is buggy. - Don't get me started on the "iTunes Match" debacle. https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/05/itunes-match-users-report-widespread-issues/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/05/itunes-match-users-repo... Jobs had a vision of the Mac as a media hub for managing your collection and I liked that vision. Apple even (eventually) removed DRM from iTunes downloads. Forcing me into DRM and subscription services? No thanks. What I've done instead is, gradually, buy many dozens of used CDs and rip them, to replace any lossy iTunes files I purchased years ago. My entire library is now CD + ALAC (lossless) + purchased FLAC files that some vendors offer (and which were never supported on iTunes or Apple Music, but play flawlessly from the Synology). I use rsync to sync my iTunes library to my Synology NAS, and use Synology's free iOS apps to stream the whole library on our iOS devices, or on laptops and desktops, just use the web player. It works great and I can stream to stereo receivers without any difficulty as well using an AudioEngine B-Fi. No streaming services, no monthly bills.
- atribecalledqst 3y ago
  WOW finally I encounter somebody with the same use case as me in the wild. I thought that would never happen. Except I stream off my 2007 Macbook instead, which is basically just a NAS to me at this point. (I actually do own a Synology NAS but have not integrated it with this existing system) I hate the UI on Apple Music enough that I don't use iTunes Home Share anymore, but instead run an instance of MPD and then just control playback through ncmpcpp. But to modify tags, add ratings, etc. I have a Screen Sharing session open to the 2007 machine to use iTunes. I have an ongoing project to write a web app that would free me from iTunes altogether, but it will be a while before that's usable. I don't remember if I ever encountered the disconnection issues you did with a modern machine + home sharing with an older one. The thing that drove me the most nuts was that I could not use home sharing if I was using my headphones over bluetooth. They had to be plugged in for home sharing to work. My favorite trick was when I figured out how to get the advertisements from home sharing forwarded over VPN, so I could use it when I was on work travel. Unfortunately that broke when I upgraded from Mavericks to High Sierra and I never figured out how to fix it.
asciimov 3y ago
I wonder, can I sync my iPods with Apple Devices?
saddat 3y ago
No doubt the worst software for the masses
saddat 3y ago
Funny how you never read a thread about iTunes where someone states „hey, I am from iTunes dev team“
- fragmede 3y ago
  it's no secret that doing so would get you fired from Apple.

107 points by akyuu 3y ago

donatj 3y ago

iTunes is sticking around on Windows but will just be for audio books and podcasts? That’s absolutely bizarre.

tecleandor 3y ago
iTunes... but no tunes in it? :P
- chrisjj 3y ago
  Tunes are permitted ... provided they are in audio books ;)
gruez 3y ago
...only if you also install apple music or apple tv. If you don't you can still use it for music/videos. >When you install the Apple Music or Apple TV app, you can only use those apps for your music, TV shows, and movies; you can continue to use iTunes to listen to your audiobooks and podcasts.
- iggldiggl 3y ago
  While offline playback will be unaffected, I wonder how long iTunes's connection to the iTunes store ecosystem will keep working and whether you'll eventually be forced to install Apple Music for accessing the iTunes store?
rchaud 3y ago
Messy branding is now par for the course at Apple. The iPad line alone is something out of a Dell catalog: iPad, iPad 10thgen, iPad Air, iPad Mini, iPad Pro.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  The only one that really sticks out as odd there is the 10th gen. Basic, Air, Pro is also their laptop lineup, right—it has been for quite a while, and nobody has complained. Mini seems like a reasonable and easy to interpret addition give tablet use-cases. I’m guessing the 10th gen is the one with the super long support lifetime or something like that? That’s a slightly weird iPad-ism.
  - Kwpolska 3y ago
    > Basic, Air, Pro is also their laptop lineup In the most recent iteration of this lineup, the 12-inch MacBook was comically underpowered, especially for its price, there was no good reason to purchase that instead of an Air or a Pro. This was also quite short-lived, with an official discontinuation after four years.
    - bee_rider 3y ago
      Huh, I didn’t know they’d dropped the basic model. It always made sense to me, at least: “pro” is premium in a power direction, “air” is premium in a lightness direction, and the base model is just the base model. But I guess it is unsurprising that Apple doesn’t want to do a base model, haha. Another way of looking at it, I guess, is just that it is an evolutionary process, and every MacBook is a descendent of the Air now.
      - Kwpolska 3y ago
        The 2015-2019 12-inch MacBooks had zero benefits over MacBook Air, maybe other than the Retina screens, until the release of the 2018 Retina MacBook Air. Other than that, they had CPUs <= 1.4 GHz, a single USB-C port, and even the camera was only 480p. They were never cheaper than the base model of the 13-inch MacBook Air.
        bee_rider 3y ago
        Oh wow. It did seem like an odd device, but I thought they were at least cheaper than the Airs. How strange of them.
al_borland 3y ago
I assume this is to cover the gaps in the new apps. In macOS they moved extra stuff to Finder. It seems the device sync app might make more sense on Windows. Maybe that will happening in time.
dangus 3y ago
It’s weird branding. Your local music and iTunes purchases live in the Music app. Apple Music the service also lives in the Music app. (Music purchased on iTunes can be downloaded directly to the device without syncing, but you need to manually sync with your computer to transfer over music that you acquired elsewhere. Either that or you subscribe to the iTunes Match service assuming that sticks around) Basically, in the PC version of these apps the main difference compared to Mac seems to be that Apple didn’t split Podcasts and Audibooks into separate apps. They’re just mushed into an app that’s weirdly called iTunes. I feel like they should have clumsily but less confusingly called it “Apple Podcasts and Audiobooks”

nailer 3y ago

I recently tried Apple Music and then gave up because it didn’t support podcasts and the podcast apps that exist in the Apple ecosystem aren’t as good as Spotify

basisword 3y ago
>> the podcast apps that exist in the Apple ecosystem aren’t as good as Spotify Do you mean Spotify is better because it's all in one? Or specifically as a podcast client it's better? Because, as a podcast client, Spotify is shockingly bad. Perhaps the worst podcast client available. Apple Podcasts, Overcast, and Pocketcasts are all much, much better.
- subtra3t 3y ago
  To each their own. I personally like Spotify (as a podcast client) just the way it is, it does what I want it to.
  - niek_pas 3y ago
    > it does what I want it to This is Spotify's main advantage: most people already have it installed, and it's good enough if you don't care that much about the podcast-listening experience.
    - nytesky 3y ago
      Did they really invest in Rogan and podcasts just to keep their existing customers? I thought it was to entice podcast connoisseurs to the Spotify platform, who WILL care about podcast listening experience?
    - thenbe 3y ago
      I was in this boat. Now I'd really like to get off. The UI is bad but I got used to bad. But I've been asked to change my password *checks email* 10 (!) times in the last few months. I don't share my password with anyone, but I do use a VPN. Anyways, I can't seem to find a suitable alternative that will keep track of my listening progress across both linux and iOS.

anotherhue 3y ago

I wanted to use Music on a windows PC that has a good DAC attached and I was politely told that they don't support security keys on windows. No alternative. No 'get a code on another device', just PFO.

SigmundurM 3y ago
Could Cider[1] be what you're looking for? It's basically a open source frontend for Apple Music that works on Linux and Windows. It's what I use to listen to my Apple Music songs on Linux, and it's amazing. [1]: https://cider.sh/ https://cider.sh/
- anotherhue 3y ago
  There's a web interface that could be used, but I wanted to use the high-res mode with this DAC. First world problems of course, but just needlessly frustrating.
  - SigmundurM 3y ago
    They're currently working on a complete remake of Cider [1], which is "powered by Rust. With a partial shift away from Electron". That might fit your needs? The latest release, v2.3.0, also supports forcing the player to use 256kbps[2] [1]: https://cidercollective.itch.io/cider https://cidercollective.itch.io/cider [2]: https://cidercollective.itch.io/cider/devlog/674855/cider-v230 https://cidercollective.itch.io/cider/devlog/674855/cider-v2...
    - anotherhue 3y ago
      I believe the DRM Apple adds makes the Hi-Res options exceedingly difficult to access from outside of their platform.
      - SigmundurM 3y ago
        Cider seemed to struggle just getting the 256kbps. So getting the lossless options, are not gonna be any easier, but hopefully Cider can figure it out with time!

guspillk 3y ago

I'm still waiting for a new Amarok...

biggestfan 3y ago
Assuming you mean the pre-2.0 Amarok, you might be interested in Strawberry: https://www.strawberrymusicplayer.org/ https://www.strawberrymusicplayer.org/ It's a a fork of a fork of the old Amarok, supporting more features and modern support while retaining the original UI.

eudoraexplora 3y ago

I like how Apple's page starts with "When iTunes was originally released, it had everything you needed to be entertained. Now, there are individual apps for all your media" - yes, exactly! That's the problem!

Manfred 3y ago
What is exactly the problem with individual apps in your opinion? This not a weird jab, I'm actually curious.
- chrisjj 3y ago
  What's the problem with using one app for all audio files? I don't see why a user should be forced to use different apps depending on the type of the audio content.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Podcats (I use Overcast) are pretty different from music and I wouldn't generally intermix them. And you already have Library and Streaming modes of Apple Music so podcasts would be yet another mode.
    - whywhywhywhy 3y ago
      On the other hand Apple Music already has audio streaming and playback and a Library mode so should Podcasts write their own? While yeah debundled separate apps will make probably the main use case of what was the bundled app better it also likely leads to stagnation and buggier experiences over time in the apps where the less popular features were debundled into. Like all knowledge and talent required to code the Audiobooks app is the same as whats required to code the Music app so which team would you rather be on given the choice.
    - iggldiggl 3y ago
      The things is that iTunes also allows you to manually reclassify you media files as a podcast, and I found (still do, actually) that very useful for managing my collection of radio comedy scrounged together from all sorts of places (downloads from BBC iPlayer, downloads from various places collecting that kinds of shows, a very few genuine podcasts). That way I could keep them out of the main music library, gain the listened/unlistened episode display and playback position tracking, and still easily sync them over to my phone [1]. Without iTunes, I would have to set up some fake local podcast feed on my computer to get those episodes into the podcast app of my choice instead. [1] Using iSyncr + Rocket Player after switching from an iPod to an Android phone – sadly those apps were sold by the original developer two years ago, though, and the new owners are seemingly just trying to turn them into a cash grab, so I cannot recommend them any more, though for now the old versions sort of keep working, albeit you need a rooted phone to work around some issues.

A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago

As long as I can still move pictures from wife's phone. Still, this is such an annoying change. As in, Itunes on PC always sucked, but it did not occur to me that Apple would want to actively make it worse. edit: This reminds me. Wasn't there a FOSS project that has most of Itunes functionality?

Terretta 3y ago
They didn't make it worse. If you don't want to change, don't install the replacement apps.
- chrisjj 3y ago
  How is preventing you playing music if you install another app not worse?
  - WorldMaker 3y ago
    If the other app is better and worth installing?
    - chrisjj 3y ago
      That doesn't avoid this worsening of iTunes. At best it merely avoids some users caring.
  - Terretta 3y ago
    But they didn't do that, you did that, by installing the other app. If you don't install the other app, iTunes is the same. You indicated a preference for the new Music experience by installing it. If you don't indicate that preference, iTunes doesn't change.
    - chrisjj 3y ago
      > But they didn't do that, you did that, by installing the other app. They did it by making the new app disable functionality of the existing. > You indicated a preference for the new Music experience by installing it. By that insane logic, installing e.g. Edge would justifably prevent use of Chrome.

missjellyfish 3y ago

I like how they fail to mention that the Apple Music App on Windows is hot garbage riddled with bugs. A few weeks ago they broke reordering of upcoming songs, the "play next" feature and I don't know what else. I have submitted bug reports with exact steps, reproducible on at least two accounts on five different conmputers. Haven't heared back, doubt I'll ever will. Anyone can recommend a streaming service that isn't Apple Music, Spotify or YouTube Music? Bonus points if I can just add a plugin to my old trusty winamp to use it.

pier25 3y ago
The Apple Music app on macOS is also hot garage.
- aniforprez 3y ago
  Apple TV is also somehow hot garbage I don't understand. These are "just" media players and all split up to do one thing each. How do they all do that one thing so miserably. TV hangs for multiple seconds every single time I download or delete episodes of TV shows and the player is so incredibly bad and doesn't save your progress properly
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
    Huh, it never occurred to me that you could download episodes on an Apple TV. What’s the use-case? I download shows on my iPad so I can watch them when I’m traveling without internet, but my Apple TV is always plugged in. Intermittent connectivity in the home? Maybe bugs stick around because the feature is rarely used?
    - abhinavk 3y ago
      It's small enough to be carried when you are traveling. You could take it to hotels.
    - aniforprez 3y ago
      I'm not talking about the device btw. I am indeed talking about the TV app that comes preinstalled on Apple devices. I watch from my Macbook. The TV app is confusingly also Apple TV with a subscription service called Apple TV+ My use case is I've found that, for reasons unknown, the streaming quality is worse than if I download the episodes. Streaming always stays at 720p or lower whereas downloading gets me 1080p every time. And being able to watch things when I move around even with spotty internet

totetsu 3y ago

Foobar2000 is still working just the same as it did when iTunes came out.

PaulHoule 3y ago
And VLC plays for sure. I was just looking at videos captured by a (wild) game camera and the Microsoft Media Player could only play some of them, I was sure they would play with VLC and they were right.

mbostleman 3y ago

iTunes? What is that?

timbit42 3y ago
It sounds like a radio app you tune yourself. Could be for helping you tune your musical instruments.

369548684892826 3y ago

I guess by PC they mean Windows, or they also support BSD now?

trelane 3y ago
Since OSX has a lot of BSD... they kind of did already
david422 3y ago
They've always had their "hi I'm a mac", "hi I'm a PC" commercials.
randomdata 3y ago
Windows hasn't been personal since 'Me'. The NT line was always a multiuser system. Does iTunes even support those old versions of Windows?

emsy 3y ago

Thanks, I hate it. I tried to transfer some audiobooks I have using iTunes and it didn't work. The music app is buggy as hell. I'm not sure if Apple wants me to buy a Mac or switch to Android but I'll probably go with the latter.

cyberax 3y ago
Don't worry. Music app on macOS is also buggy as hell.

emptyfile 3y ago

[dead]

seam_carver 3y ago

Me with the old version of itunes that has an app store

mattmaroon 3y ago

iTunes on PC has always been so much worse than iTunes on Mac. I was on Android for awhile in no small part due to having tried to use iTunes with an iPhone (remember when you had to do that?) and hating it. Apple’s podcast apps have been second rate since the very early days also. So they should just give iTunes for PC the Viking funeral it deserves.

CharlesW 3y ago
> iTunes on PC has always been so much worse than iTunes on Mac. Like Flutter, its unfixable jankiness comes from not using native controls. Anyone using iTunes for Windows is really using a bit of pre-X Mac OS in the form of Carbon/QTML. This is surely one of the reasons that Apple is gradually giving iTunes for Windows that Viking funeral you're asking for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTime#QuickTime_2.x https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTime#QuickTime_2.x

datadrivenangel 3y ago

So what is the best app these for listening to your own music collection? VLC?!?

lxgr 3y ago
Does Apple Music (the app) no longer support that? It does on macOS, even without a subscription. Also, foobar2000 of course.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Apple Music is mostly fine. And as long as you're going to sync to an iPhone, it probably doesn't make sense to use a different app. (Though I use VLC for other things.)
sumtechguy 3y ago
Mediamonkey is pretty good. I held onto media player as long as I could, but MS just made it worse on every iteration.
teeray 3y ago
I’m liking Jellyfin’s music support for my giant collection of FLACs (other formats are supported). I can pull it up on any browser (don’t need to install anything on my work PC). There’s also an iOS app called Fintunes that provides a great native music-listening experience.
- NamTaf 3y ago
  Finamp is another iOS app which, importantly for me, supports offline playback via downloading locally.
f_kai 3y ago
I currently run Plex on my home media server, a long with Plexamp for streaming to my mobile device. Works like a charm.
- 3y ago

chrisjj 3y ago

So how will iTunes now actually prevent me from playing a WAV music file? Will it first analyse the content for music-ness?

xnx 3y ago

This is a shame. iTunes on Windows has been pretty good for bulk ID3 tag editing. Feels like a decent chance capabilities will be removed in the future.

sumtechguy 3y ago
mp3tag and picard are what I use for most of my tagging.

sahaskatta 3y ago

I tried to use this, but it appears that Apple TV and Apple Music doesn't support iCloud / Apple ID accounts with 2FA enabled on Windows?

bni 3y ago

It's strange that Apple keep this Windows software around. Is there really a lot of people on Windows that actually use this?

whywhywhywhy 3y ago
Yeah if you're a creative professional you often have a Macbook for web, presentations, comms, coding, photoshopping, design then a PC for video editing, AI and 3D.
SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
Every iPhone user that needed recover mode, or downloaded file to device sync, or needed some other software that requires the iTunes drivers.
nerdjon 3y ago
I feel like this is largely Apple realizing that their iPhone, iPad, and even Mac customers sometimes need to use Windows. Given this also went along with an iCloud for Windows redesign. Instead of them fighting Windows, make the experience slightly better for their customers which really just helps keep them in your Ecosystem, just slightly expanded.
thesuitonym 3y ago
iPhone/iPad is a gateway to the Apple ecosystem. If a Windows users couldn't share their media with their phone, they may never buy any Apple hardware at all.
mysteria 3y ago
I use it for local backups of iOS devices, not for music.
Macha 3y ago
I think the Windows client will live as long as the iTunes Store. Which I was sort of more confident about when it seemed to just be in a forgotten corner of Apple somewhere just ticking along. Now it's clear someone has come up with a strategy™, I think there's more risk they might screw with both to push people into subscription services, and I can't help but see an iTunes Store shutdown as being the beginning of the end for digital music sales.

tfandango 3y ago

I hope ability to get photos off iPhones is improved. I can NEVER get it to fully work for more than a few pictures. I know we are supposed to sync them to the cloud now but it's nice to be able to put them on the big drive on the PC sometimes too.

SirMaster 3y ago
Hmm, I have never had a problem dragging and dropping them off my iPhone via the device that shows up in the My Computer screen when I plug my phone in via USB. I have done it this way since forever.
- yardstick 3y ago
  Sounds like you are doing a few photos at a time? My library count is now over 200k photos. It worries me that it is almost impossible to get a guaranteed backup of them from iCloud to local storage. Even when I tick the box in Mac photos app to store originals, from my own testing I’ve found lots of images are still only locally loaded when first viewed. Not great for making local backups!
  - SirMaster 3y ago
    Typically several hundred to 1-2K at most I guess. A mixture of regular, raw, and videos. Everything has always transferred off just fine at least for me. For a huge library like that I would go with a reliable software like iMazing.
  - jazzyjackson 3y ago
    I downloaded my iCloud library from privacy.apple.com, you can request a copy of your data there. It will take a few days before they send you a link that expires in a week but you'll get your whole library in 50GB zipped chunks.
- tfandango 3y ago
  I have tried it both this way and via some tool like import via MS Photos and earlier Picasa. It works for a while but after a few hundred photos, just seems to die. I've had this problem on every PC I own, with all iPhones I own, using a ton of different USB wires and ports. And it seems to degrade over time somehow, the first attempt I might get 200 photos moved, then the next time I get 20. Stuff like that. I assume it was related to the driver because when it stops working, the phone disappears from the file explorer. Of course, it could totally be me somehow, but I've tried everything I know to eliminate user error.

karaterobot 3y ago

Has iTunes on Windows ever been good? I think I tried it in 2003-4, and it was garbage then, so I uninstalled it. In the intervening 20 years, I've never heard anyone say "it's good now!", so I never re-installed it. I assumed that if you were a dedicated Windows user, you just wouldn't use iTunes, and if you weren't a dedicated Windows user but loved your iPhone, you'd do what Apple wanted you to do in the first place, and switch to MacOS.

bee_rider 3y ago
I’m dedicated to Linux but I like my iPhone. iPhones are more-or-less standalone devices nowadays. They can backup straight to iCloud. The only thing I’d need to borrow a Mac for, as far as I know, is a factory-reset. I last used iTunes on windows in like 2010 or so, I think. It was pretty awful. Although, it did have a neat feature, you could share your library over the lan, so it was neat to listen to other people’s music in a dorm. I’m sure they’ve removed that feature by now, it was too good to be true.
- freeplay 3y ago
  If the phone is functional (as in you can access the Settings app), you can factory reset from the phone, as well. You can also remote wipe from Find My if need be.
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    True! Actually, I have an ancient iPad that I’ve forgotten the pin for. I think I’d need a Mac to reset it. Fortunately the reason I forgot the pin is that I got a laptop and stopped using the iPad as my SSH client as a result, haha, so recovery is not really a pressing issue.
bdcravens 3y ago
It used to be a required piece of software for setting up your iPhone/iPad.
- 3y ago

teeray 3y ago

> iTunes remains the home for your audiobooks and free podcasts. More like noTunes then

purpleblue 3y ago

Every PM who worked on iTunes should be cancelled from the tech industry. Having iTunes on your resume should be the Mark of Cain as far as I'm concerned. I've never had the displeasure of working on a more terrible piece of software in my life and it shouldn't be this bad. Shame on everyone who worked on it, even though given Apple stock price, they are likely 8 or 9 figure millionaires.

ben-schaaf 3y ago

So can I buy and download music from Apple Music, or is purchasing songs going away entirely?

CharlesW 3y ago
You can buy and download music from Apple Music on Windows. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213733#:~:text=How%20to%20buy%20music%20from%20the%20iTunes%20Store%20in%20the%20Apple%20Music%20app%20for%20Windows https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213733#:~:text=How%20to%20...

draxil 3y ago

From a distance: So iTUNES isn't the music app? Seems confusing :)

Night_Thastus 3y ago

Until iTunes gets better about specifying the exact level of quality of the music tracks I'm buying, it's still a no-go for me.

CharlesW 3y ago
Purchased tracks are either 256 kbps AAC or ALAC (Apple Lossless). It's worth noting that Apple's AAC encoder beats everything else (I've done lots of testing), even though at 256 kbps this isn't a huge consideration. Their Apple Digital Masters program (formerly Mastered for iTunes or "MFiT") offers guidance and tools for labels, which is why Apple's iTunes catalog offers such consistently high quality. https://www.apple.com/apple-music/apple-digital-masters/docs/apple-digital-masters.pdf https://www.apple.com/apple-music/apple-digital-masters/docs...
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  I keep most of my music in Jellyfin (at least most of the stereo as opposed to 5.1 music) I wrote a Python script that would download chosen albums from the server, run them through the Apple's command line AAC encoder, cache the results, and then carefully copy them in the right order to an exFAT file system on a USB stick that I use in my car. I've been wanting to add a lot of Super Furry Animals albums to that stick but my mac mini died last year and I wasn't in a hurry to get a new mac. From time to time I think about pulling the SSD out of it and getting the Python script running on my Linux server, I could either use a MP3 encoder like LAME (always encoding at a high bit rate so it's going to be OK) but I do hear people have cheated to get the Apple AAC encoder to run on other OS https://www.andrews-corner.org/qaac.html https://www.andrews-corner.org/qaac.html I've used the same software to pack up music for my Garmin watch and for that I do use AAC Pro at 96kbps because I figure in the gym or out on a run it is a noisy environment. For that the Apple encoder really is superior to alternatives.

ShadowBanThis01 3y ago

[dead]

at_a_remove 3y ago

Someone local has some kind of i-device (iPod? iTouch? He doesn't remember) from which he would like to extract copies of the music on it. I'm not even sure what to do. I have heard so many horror stories of iTunes just trashing libraries ... I'm not even sure what I would search for in terms of Windows software or what kind of cable I would need. And Apple's branding is so ... operationally overloaded, overlapping, whatever, I'm confused.

dddddaviddddd 3y ago
Apple's software won't let you do that, you'll need something third-party. If you're lucky, the device will be old enough to jailbreak to get full access to the file system.
- CharlesW 3y ago
  > Apple's software won't let you do that… I believe that's incorrect: https://support.apple.com/guide/itunes/transfer-files-itns32636/windows https://support.apple.com/guide/itunes/transfer-files-itns32... Also see: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/transfer-music-ipod-computer/ https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/transfer-music-ipod-computer/
miles 3y ago
Over the years, I've had success with both of these third-party apps on Macs and PCs to do exactly that: Transfer Music from iPhone, iPad, & iPod to your Mac or PC https://macroplant.com/iexplorer/tutorials/how-to-transfer-music-and-playlists https://macroplant.com/iexplorer/tutorials/how-to-transfer-m... Transfer iPhone & iPod Music to your Computer or to iTunes https://imazing.com/iphone-music-transfer https://imazing.com/iphone-music-transfer
- at_a_remove 3y ago
  This question seems a little dumb, perhaps less so in terms of our DRM world: by "transfer" does that mean move or copy? Because we're hoping to copy, not move.

dbrueck 3y ago

I love iTunes, in the sense that I credit it with being the thing that got me to abandon the Apple ecosystem. I don't miss the constant battle with that cursed program.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

PaulHoule 3y ago

iTunes makes the crapplets that other companies (including Microsoft) look great.

yenwodyah 3y ago

> If you don’t install Apple Music or Apple TV, you can continue to use iTunes for all your media. … so why would I install either of those? What’s actually changing if I only have iTunes installed?

Supernaut 3y ago
This. I've got iTunes 12.13 installed on my PC and everything works in exactly the same way that it always has.
- iggldiggl 3y ago
  The interesting thing is – what will happen in the future? Will they continue maintaining the parts of iTunes that are now being duplicated by the Apple Music app? This being Windows, at least you're not being forced to immediately upgrade like it happens on a Mac (where those things are seemingly tied to your version of macOS) and in the case of eventual breakage can continue using a previous version indefinitely, but that leads to the next question – on the off chance that you do want to use the iTunes store, too, how long will that keep working with old iTunes versions?
quitit 3y ago
Is this not just unbundling to appease regulators who assert that putting everything in one app is anticompetitive?

incanus77 3y ago

The phrase “everything you needed to be entertained” is indicative of the biggest problem that I see with Apple today: a focus on consumerism and passive consumption. Twenty years ago, iTunes’ emphasis was on collecting, experiencing, and enjoying an art form. It’s a very subtle difference, but it speaks to the attitude that Apple projects today. When was the last time the intersection with the humanities was mentioned, versus how sleek and desirable the technology is?

breathen 3y ago
> Twenty years ago, iTunes’ emphasis was on collecting, experiencing, and enjoying an art form. This was (and is) also a blatant form of consumerism. I honestly don't see any difference in the negative effects on this outside of going through apple rather than my local FYE.
- incanus77 3y ago
  Sure, Apple aligned itself in a way that ultimately added to its and its partners’ bottom lines. But somehow, the company’s attitude felt aspirational to me in a way that it does not today.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    Then you fell for the lifestyle advertising. Simple as that
    - incanus77 3y ago
      I can see your point. For me personally, though, the progression was: 1. Like the look & feel of Apple hardware 2. Feel like the iPod/iTunes scene is shiny bullshit, but whatever 3. Buy a laptop & figure I'll give OS X a shot, if not install Linux 4. Fall in love with the ability to really get some work done rather than have to futz with my system all the time (despite loving to futz with my system) 5. Eventually, become an Apple platform developer
- 3y ago

secondcoming 3y ago

This is one bit of software I've always refused to install.

wackget 3y ago

I use an old version of iTunes on Windows and haven't found anything better, for the following reasons: 1. It has a taskbar player, which is a tiny strip of media controls which sits in your taskbar. AFAIK the only other player to offer this is Windows Media Player. 2. It has the best-looking (for me) GUI with the column browser etc. 3. You can use parental controls to disable all the crap like the store/videos/radio/etc. to make a very minimalist player. The only problem I have with it is that older versions don't sync correctly with modern devices (iPod, iPhone, etc.) but there are workarounds for this using a virtual machine: https://www.tersetechtips.com/how-to-keep-using-an-old-version-of-itunes-on-windows-with-a-modern-iphone-ipad-ipod/ https://www.tersetechtips.com/how-to-keep-using-an-old-versi...

toast0 3y ago
> 1. It has a taskbar player, which is a tiny strip of media controls which sits in your taskbar. AFAIK the only other player to offer this is Windows Media Player. In the taskbar meaning where you select applications that can maybe show the window title but by default is just icons these days? Or the in the notification area / system tray? If the later, Winamp has a bundled plugin for that, and I believe Foobar2000 does too.
- wackget 3y ago
  It's the former.

pipeline_peak 3y ago

TIL iTunes is still a thing, even on Windows

bhauer 3y ago

I was briefly excited to hear they had separated media synchronization from the atrocity of iTunes. I just experimented with the "Apple Devices App" for PC. Unfortunately, the experience has been poor, which is what I should have anticipated given Apple's track record for PC software. First, the linked documentation provides no information about where to get the Apple Devices App. It turns out, it's only available from the Microsoft App Store. Fair enough, but odd that the documentation never says that. Second concern: yikes, this synchronization app is 188 Mb in size. But whatever, I have tons of storage on my PC, so let's proceed. The final and biggest issue: the app simply never recognizes my phone. The phone is unlocked and has trusted the computer. It shows up in Windows Explorer as a storage device (significantly hobbled by Apple's needless file system obfuscation, but that's not new). The Apple Devices App never stops saying "Connect a device to proceed." All told, a typical Apple software experience. If Android weren't so awful, I'd be much happier. The way Android devices appear as just a standard storage device with a normal file system is so much easier to deal with.

NoPedantsThanks 3y ago
Apple's fear of proper I/O strikes again. Forcing customers to use a shitty JUKEBOX app to manage all the content (including applications) on a handheld Unix computer was embarrassing on day one. But after a decade... and then more... it's offensive to those customers. Now they made the already-shambolic Windows situation even worse. It's bad enough on Mac, where the videos you shot yourself inexplicably wind up in the "TV" app now. Why the hell would you look in Apple TV for stuff you shot on your phone?
- TheNightman 3y ago
  Never had a problem like this on Mac. When I shoot a video on my iPhone, it’s in the photo library on my Mac. Same with downloads, photos, passwords, safari tabs, clipboard and more. No transferring of files required at all, let alone through the Apple TV app?
  - NoPedantsThanks 3y ago

robomartin 3y ago

I gave up on iTunes on PC and Apple Music in general a very long time ago (iPhone 3 era). iTunes is just a mess. It's the software equivalent of a badly executed all-in-one printer, scanner and fax. Has it improved? No clue. I haven't bothered with it other than for backups. My complaint about Apple Music is very simple: For some incomprehensible reason they make playing an entire album or albums, in order, as recorded, impossible. Take works such as Brandenburg concerto and a bunch of classical work or most of Pink Floyd's albums. In Windows Media Player I can listen to this work as intended, in the order the album was recorded. I can easily create a playlist of albums and play them back as recorded. With Apple Music, last I looked, this was still impossible. I own a large library of CD's. I transferred all of them to Windows Media and clan play recorded works as intended without having to handle the physical media. Again, last I looked, this is impossible with Apple Music. The couple of attempts I made over the years were nothing less than disastrous exercises in futility. Not sure what ideological or business basis Apple uses to effectively destroy an artist's creation and refuse to deliver it as intended. It is clear that selling single songs might be one of these motivating factors. OK, I get it. And this might even make sense for much of the large body of popular music. However, there are works of art that are not one hit wonders and, in my opinion, deserve the respect, consideration and option to experience them as intended.

gwbas1c 3y ago

Does it seem strange that "iTunes" is for audiobooks and podcasts? Maybe it's time to retire the name "iTunes," or have "iTunes" be the name of a suite?

kabdib 3y ago
You can tell which team that lost the turf war and has to maintain the old code. Pity them.

WoodenChair 3y ago

What technology are the new Windows Music and TV apps built using?

paulrpotts 3y ago

iTunes was a complex mess with too much functionality in one app, but for many years it worked really well for me. Replacing it with the new apps has been a process of removing functionality I relied on, obfuscating and making less user-friendly existing functionality, and pushing people into using cloud services. Some examples: - Older versions of iTunes had a great "home sharing" function that allowed sharing the library with devices running iTunes on the LAN. I used this very extensively. iTunes running on my 2008 Mac Pro still runs the server, and there is kinda-sorta client functionality in Apple Music, a bit hidden, but it is not reliable (constantly disconnects mid-song). Also, there was never an iOS client which would stream from this server. There were some half-baked attempts at open-source apps that would do it, but Apple broke them by encrypting the streaming across my own LAN. - iTunes stored podcast and audiobook files in a simple and transparent way. Now podcasts (accessed using the separate Apple Podcasts app) are stored buried in Library subdirectories with long gibberish filenames. Although they're really just MP3 files with extra tags, it's now very difficult to just grab an episode by filename and save it elsewhere or forward it to a friend. - iTunes had best-in-class tag editing. Apple Music's tag editing is buggy. - Don't get me started on the "iTunes Match" debacle. https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/05/itunes-match-users-report-widespread-issues/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/05/itunes-match-users-repo... Jobs had a vision of the Mac as a media hub for managing your collection and I liked that vision. Apple even (eventually) removed DRM from iTunes downloads. Forcing me into DRM and subscription services? No thanks. What I've done instead is, gradually, buy many dozens of used CDs and rip them, to replace any lossy iTunes files I purchased years ago. My entire library is now CD + ALAC (lossless) + purchased FLAC files that some vendors offer (and which were never supported on iTunes or Apple Music, but play flawlessly from the Synology). I use rsync to sync my iTunes library to my Synology NAS, and use Synology's free iOS apps to stream the whole library on our iOS devices, or on laptops and desktops, just use the web player. It works great and I can stream to stereo receivers without any difficulty as well using an AudioEngine B-Fi. No streaming services, no monthly bills.

atribecalledqst 3y ago
WOW finally I encounter somebody with the same use case as me in the wild. I thought that would never happen. Except I stream off my 2007 Macbook instead, which is basically just a NAS to me at this point. (I actually do own a Synology NAS but have not integrated it with this existing system) I hate the UI on Apple Music enough that I don't use iTunes Home Share anymore, but instead run an instance of MPD and then just control playback through ncmpcpp. But to modify tags, add ratings, etc. I have a Screen Sharing session open to the 2007 machine to use iTunes. I have an ongoing project to write a web app that would free me from iTunes altogether, but it will be a while before that's usable. I don't remember if I ever encountered the disconnection issues you did with a modern machine + home sharing with an older one. The thing that drove me the most nuts was that I could not use home sharing if I was using my headphones over bluetooth. They had to be plugged in for home sharing to work. My favorite trick was when I figured out how to get the advertisements from home sharing forwarded over VPN, so I could use it when I was on work travel. Unfortunately that broke when I upgraded from Mavericks to High Sierra and I never figured out how to fix it.

asciimov 3y ago

I wonder, can I sync my iPods with Apple Devices?

saddat 3y ago

No doubt the worst software for the masses

saddat 3y ago

Funny how you never read a thread about iTunes where someone states „hey, I am from iTunes dev team“

fragmede 3y ago
it's no secret that doing so would get you fired from Apple.