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To a specific audience that they have cultivated, though. And almost universally with a highly specific framing. What they are doing is finding posts from queer

To a specific audience that they have cultivated, though. And almost universally with a highly specific framing. What they are doing is finding posts from queer children, teachers, or parents, adding a line that frames it as inherently pedophilic or something, and then posting it to their extremely large follower base of explicitly bigoted people that would not probably have been aware of the post otherwise. Those people are obviously going to get really angry at the people the original posts were from and a portion of them will do something about it, you're essentially vastly increasing the size of the audience that's aware of their posts and the proportion of that audience that is hostile. It's essentially the online equivalent of having a big mob behind you that's really angry about some group of people existing, and happening to see one of that group and pointing at them, and then the mob goes after them. Sure, that person was existing out in the open for anyone to see before you pointed at them, but you are explicitly directing a very specific group of people to be aware of them, within a very specific context and framing that wouldn't have been added to that person otherwise, and that has consequences. Additionally, they will often choose clips from things that are pulled completely out of context. Reposting content that was already online is not necessarily an inherently neutral behavior, because you are always reposting it to somewhere; in this case, taking a post from a person and boosting and broadcasting it to a huge group of people that hate that person.

richbell 3y ago
> What they are doing is finding posts from queer children, teachers, or parents, adding a line that frames it as inherently pedophilic or something Can you provide some examples of this? "Pedophilic or something" is pretty open-ended.
- jrflowers 3y ago
  From the article: >Raichik posted that the school offers a “pornographic” book in its library that “teaches kids about gay sex.”
  - richbell 3y ago
    I read the article. Claiming thst something is inappropriate is not the same as claiming it's pedophilic.
    - chrsig 3y ago
      Hence "or something"
      - richbell 3y ago
        My point is specifically that saying "pedophilia or something" is disingenuous. "Or something" could be completely innocuous.
        hmcq6 3y ago
        > My point is specifically that saying "pedophilia or something" is disingenuous But it wasn't. You just assumed it was because you weren't immediately provided evidence you could have just as easily found yourself.
        logicprog 3y ago
        I mean, the assumption I was operating under was that someone would see that something in the context of the previous part of that conjunction and assume I meant something in the same vein, or at the same level of seriousness. In the same way that someone could say "I think I got stabbed or something" and you wouldn't assume that the something to which they referred might be a hangnail. But this is The Playbook people who don't want to acknowledge what the right is doing use all the time: play dumb, like you can't understand basic language or logic that you would otherwise completely understand in any other context, and require everyone to do every ounce of the research and work for you in finding you evidence for every statement made, in order to raise the barrier of effort until the other person gives up, while maintaining the appearance of neutrality.
        dekhn 3y ago
        Is being pedantic about this adding anything to the conversation? What the site does is not innocuous; we already know that.
- logicprog 3y ago
  Sure. Her main bread and butter is taking video clips out of context to try to prove that trans kids are the victims of "parents with munchausen's by proxy" and "doctors who want to experiment on innocent children", and that queer people just existing in the world around kids is somehow inherently "grooming" them, as well as that queer teachers are grooming kids, that suicide prevention hotlines for trans kids are grooming them, that lgbtq aid organizations for kids are grooming them, etc. This article covers the basics but it is so much more extensive: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/04/chaya-raichik-libs-tiktok-groomer-tweets.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/04/chaya-raichik-li.... Just go look at her substack.
- hmcq6 3y ago
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/02/lgbtq-threats-hospitals-libs-of-tiktok/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/02/lgbtq-t...
logicprog 3y ago
It's actually like well-known internet etiquette in many places that if you're going to share a post from a person you vehemently disagree with to a different Community or fan base or audience or whatever that also disagrees with them, that you block out their username and any other identifying info for precisely this reason, to prevent them from getting harassed. Chaya Raichik doesn't respect that.
- aniftythrifrty 3y ago
  internet etiquette... lol
  - kcplate 3y ago
    Yep. That one made me snicker as well…
tomcam 3y ago
That's a lot of words. They repost without editing material submitted to the most popular social media sites in the world. The original posters are literally getting wider exposure: exactly what they wanted.
- logicprog 3y ago
  I'm sorry you struggle to read more than a few sentences of words, but I'm trying to be very clear and precise in my explanations in order to help the people playing dumb in this comments section. The clips she shares are very often not edited by her, but out of context clips edited by someone else to serve a narrative. Even when they aren't, how you frame a clip when you present it to someone and the prior expectations and beliefs of the audience that is viewing the clip can very strongly influence the perceived import of the clip itself, even if it's the exact same footage. And she is explicitly sharing clips of queer people to an audience that is already pre-convinced that queer people are evil and groomers, with that explicit framing added on to the clip. Even if we ignored that for the moment, my comment, which you clearly did not read, outlined exactly why even ignoring all the interpretive effects, sharing a clip of someone to a very large audience of people who hate one of the groups that person is a part of is a really bad thing. When someone posts something online that doesn't mean they automatically have to want a gigantic audience of people who explicitly hate them to become aware of the clip, that's nonsensical, and what l o t t is doing is essentially directing the eye of Sauron that is the awareness of her mob towards people that they are already primed to hate, when otherwise those people's posts would have gone completely unnoticed and under the radar to that mob, thereby directing a lot of hate that would not have otherwise happened at those people. Do you not understand how this works? Maybe I should put it in terms of cancel culture and that would help you understand it. Imagine some small time conservative business owner says something on his personal Facebook page that's kind of stupid, but would have completely flown under the radar otherwise. However, some big Twitter leftist account finds that post, and boosts it to their large following, with a comment about how evil and bigoted this person is, obviously that huge base of fans it is going to go after that person and just make their life hell, when without the influence of that post it would have flown under the radar. Can you see how that would be bad now?
RajT88 3y ago
This is increasingly the far-right playbook. Get a big audience all worked up about something via a steady stream of lies and outrage, and then pretend like you had nothing to do with it when one of your followers does something illegal. We have such groups around me which have resulted in vandalism of businesses and multiple bomb threats sent to multiple libraries. These assholes for a while were monopolizing the citizen comments section of city council meetings at any city which was allowing any kind of drag show or drag themed event (think drag queen story hour) in town. The notable case of vandalism was a coffee shop not only with broken windows, but they also keep finding feces in corners of the place.
- logicprog 3y ago
  It's sad, because I think a lot of the conservative rage thats being misdirected into the culture war actually ultimately comes from a pretty fair place, which is the economic gutting out that they've been facing, and the complete and utter lack of care or efficacy of the Democratic party in trying to help working people (and the Dem's classist disdain for them), and I'd like to team up with them to help with that, but it's not really possible when they would want me dead instead. If they could simply put aside their bigotry and work with people it would be a lot easier.
- bruceb 3y ago
  "monopolizing the citizen comments section of city council meetings" That is democracy, giving feedback to elected officials, even if you don't like it. Vandalism, is hardly exclusive to "the far-right". There are plenty of self described "anti-fascists" publicly smashing things they don't like. Call out violence when it happens no matter who is doing it.
  - RajT88 3y ago
    It's democracy, but also they are acting like assholes. > Vandalism, is hardly exclusive to "the far-right". Getting your followers to call in bomb threats over trans-friendly content and events, however, is exclusive to the far right. Which is what this article is about. > There are plenty of self described "anti-fascists" publicly smashing things they don't like. This is what-aboutism and threadjacking.

richbell 3y ago

> What they are doing is finding posts from queer children, teachers, or parents, adding a line that frames it as inherently pedophilic or something Can you provide some examples of this? "Pedophilic or something" is pretty open-ended.

jrflowers 3y ago
From the article: >Raichik posted that the school offers a “pornographic” book in its library that “teaches kids about gay sex.”
- richbell 3y ago
  I read the article. Claiming thst something is inappropriate is not the same as claiming it's pedophilic.
  - chrsig 3y ago
    Hence "or something"
    - richbell 3y ago
      My point is specifically that saying "pedophilia or something" is disingenuous. "Or something" could be completely innocuous.
      - hmcq6 3y ago
        > My point is specifically that saying "pedophilia or something" is disingenuous But it wasn't. You just assumed it was because you weren't immediately provided evidence you could have just as easily found yourself.
      - logicprog 3y ago
        I mean, the assumption I was operating under was that someone would see that something in the context of the previous part of that conjunction and assume I meant something in the same vein, or at the same level of seriousness. In the same way that someone could say "I think I got stabbed or something" and you wouldn't assume that the something to which they referred might be a hangnail. But this is The Playbook people who don't want to acknowledge what the right is doing use all the time: play dumb, like you can't understand basic language or logic that you would otherwise completely understand in any other context, and require everyone to do every ounce of the research and work for you in finding you evidence for every statement made, in order to raise the barrier of effort until the other person gives up, while maintaining the appearance of neutrality.
      - dekhn 3y ago
        Is being pedantic about this adding anything to the conversation? What the site does is not innocuous; we already know that.
logicprog 3y ago
Sure. Her main bread and butter is taking video clips out of context to try to prove that trans kids are the victims of "parents with munchausen's by proxy" and "doctors who want to experiment on innocent children", and that queer people just existing in the world around kids is somehow inherently "grooming" them, as well as that queer teachers are grooming kids, that suicide prevention hotlines for trans kids are grooming them, that lgbtq aid organizations for kids are grooming them, etc. This article covers the basics but it is so much more extensive: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/04/chaya-raichik-libs-tiktok-groomer-tweets.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/04/chaya-raichik-li.... Just go look at her substack.
hmcq6 3y ago
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/02/lgbtq-threats-hospitals-libs-of-tiktok/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/02/lgbtq-t...

logicprog 3y ago

It's actually like well-known internet etiquette in many places that if you're going to share a post from a person you vehemently disagree with to a different Community or fan base or audience or whatever that also disagrees with them, that you block out their username and any other identifying info for precisely this reason, to prevent them from getting harassed. Chaya Raichik doesn't respect that.

aniftythrifrty 3y ago
internet etiquette... lol
- kcplate 3y ago
  Yep. That one made me snicker as well…

tomcam 3y ago

That's a lot of words. They repost without editing material submitted to the most popular social media sites in the world. The original posters are literally getting wider exposure: exactly what they wanted.

logicprog 3y ago
I'm sorry you struggle to read more than a few sentences of words, but I'm trying to be very clear and precise in my explanations in order to help the people playing dumb in this comments section. The clips she shares are very often not edited by her, but out of context clips edited by someone else to serve a narrative. Even when they aren't, how you frame a clip when you present it to someone and the prior expectations and beliefs of the audience that is viewing the clip can very strongly influence the perceived import of the clip itself, even if it's the exact same footage. And she is explicitly sharing clips of queer people to an audience that is already pre-convinced that queer people are evil and groomers, with that explicit framing added on to the clip. Even if we ignored that for the moment, my comment, which you clearly did not read, outlined exactly why even ignoring all the interpretive effects, sharing a clip of someone to a very large audience of people who hate one of the groups that person is a part of is a really bad thing. When someone posts something online that doesn't mean they automatically have to want a gigantic audience of people who explicitly hate them to become aware of the clip, that's nonsensical, and what l o t t is doing is essentially directing the eye of Sauron that is the awareness of her mob towards people that they are already primed to hate, when otherwise those people's posts would have gone completely unnoticed and under the radar to that mob, thereby directing a lot of hate that would not have otherwise happened at those people. Do you not understand how this works? Maybe I should put it in terms of cancel culture and that would help you understand it. Imagine some small time conservative business owner says something on his personal Facebook page that's kind of stupid, but would have completely flown under the radar otherwise. However, some big Twitter leftist account finds that post, and boosts it to their large following, with a comment about how evil and bigoted this person is, obviously that huge base of fans it is going to go after that person and just make their life hell, when without the influence of that post it would have flown under the radar. Can you see how that would be bad now?

RajT88 3y ago

This is increasingly the far-right playbook. Get a big audience all worked up about something via a steady stream of lies and outrage, and then pretend like you had nothing to do with it when one of your followers does something illegal. We have such groups around me which have resulted in vandalism of businesses and multiple bomb threats sent to multiple libraries. These assholes for a while were monopolizing the citizen comments section of city council meetings at any city which was allowing any kind of drag show or drag themed event (think drag queen story hour) in town. The notable case of vandalism was a coffee shop not only with broken windows, but they also keep finding feces in corners of the place.

logicprog 3y ago
It's sad, because I think a lot of the conservative rage thats being misdirected into the culture war actually ultimately comes from a pretty fair place, which is the economic gutting out that they've been facing, and the complete and utter lack of care or efficacy of the Democratic party in trying to help working people (and the Dem's classist disdain for them), and I'd like to team up with them to help with that, but it's not really possible when they would want me dead instead. If they could simply put aside their bigotry and work with people it would be a lot easier.
bruceb 3y ago
"monopolizing the citizen comments section of city council meetings" That is democracy, giving feedback to elected officials, even if you don't like it. Vandalism, is hardly exclusive to "the far-right". There are plenty of self described "anti-fascists" publicly smashing things they don't like. Call out violence when it happens no matter who is doing it.
- RajT88 3y ago
  It's democracy, but also they are acting like assholes. > Vandalism, is hardly exclusive to "the far-right". Getting your followers to call in bomb threats over trans-friendly content and events, however, is exclusive to the far right. Which is what this article is about. > There are plenty of self described "anti-fascists" publicly smashing things they don't like. This is what-aboutism and threadjacking.