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I used to work in R&D for leading edge node development and we had a couple night shift technicians to unblock long running high priority tests. However, we cou

I used to work in R&D for leading edge node development and we had a couple night shift technicians to unblock long running high priority tests. However, we could have iterated much faster if we had dozens of engineers running additional tests at night. Some tests require you to be there at the tool to change temp and so on. And there are ton of possible tests you can do. If you get a result back in the middle of the night and have engineers to review the results and configure a new test then and there, that’s a much faster learning cycle time. Another advantage of TSMC is how they have enough fab space dedicated to R&D that they can run prototypes through quicker because they aren’t competing with manufacturing to get processed.

azinman2 3y ago
So if it’s so successful why doesn’t Intel etc just copy this process?
- foota 3y ago
  Cost and culture? I don't know that most 20 year intel employees in Beaverton are going to be willing to do night shifts.
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  Worse yet, Moore's law was basically an automatic monopoly for anybody that had a much more productive R&D than the others. But we are only noticing the gains now, that the law is gone for years already. Maybe the culture thing is really pervasive. It wouldn't be a first.
- pests 3y ago
  Some things are hard.
- CitizenKane 3y ago
  To add to what others said here, another salient factor is that in Taiwan it's pretty possible to get late night food, drink, and other things. These things are almost non-existent in the US which would make working night shifts extra rough.
  - yurishimo 3y ago
    Depends on where the fab is. I agree if we're talking about rural Arizona, but if the demand is there, I guarantee you that someone will open a franchise (or six) down the street and operate overnight to meet that demand. In and around larger cities though, it's not really a problem. There is usually _something_ open, even if it might not be a long list.
    - kyawzazaw 3y ago
      apart from NYC (and maybe Las Vegas), I don't know any other US cities that has functioning food places that operate throughout the night abuduntly do you have examples?
      - yurishimo 3y ago
        Are we discounting fast food? I can't speak for everywhere, but in Dallas, many chains are open 24/7. Whataburger is a Texas franchise that has been 24/7 for basically it's entire history in all locations. They are closed for Christmas and Thanksgiving only. McDonalds is 24/7 in most major cities. In Dallas proper, there are some smaller (local) chains that are frequently open until 2 or 3am but admittedly they mostly cater to the bar crowd who wants something to eat before heading home after drinking all night. Café Brazil is a local Denny's/IHOP type diner that is open 24/7 including major holidays! Your addition of "abundantly" makes things more ambiguous, but I think the choices available in most large US cities is _decent_ after midnight. Can you get absolutely anything like NYC? No, probably, not. But burgers, diners, and fast food are all generally available. That's also ignoring 24/7 grocery stores like Walmart that can fill in the gaps if you're craving something hyper specific. Perhaps you can't buy it ready-made, but you can buy the ingredients!

azinman2 3y ago

So if it’s so successful why doesn’t Intel etc just copy this process?

foota 3y ago
Cost and culture? I don't know that most 20 year intel employees in Beaverton are going to be willing to do night shifts.
marcosdumay 3y ago
Worse yet, Moore's law was basically an automatic monopoly for anybody that had a much more productive R&D than the others. But we are only noticing the gains now, that the law is gone for years already. Maybe the culture thing is really pervasive. It wouldn't be a first.
pests 3y ago
Some things are hard.
CitizenKane 3y ago
To add to what others said here, another salient factor is that in Taiwan it's pretty possible to get late night food, drink, and other things. These things are almost non-existent in the US which would make working night shifts extra rough.
- yurishimo 3y ago
  Depends on where the fab is. I agree if we're talking about rural Arizona, but if the demand is there, I guarantee you that someone will open a franchise (or six) down the street and operate overnight to meet that demand. In and around larger cities though, it's not really a problem. There is usually _something_ open, even if it might not be a long list.
  - kyawzazaw 3y ago
    apart from NYC (and maybe Las Vegas), I don't know any other US cities that has functioning food places that operate throughout the night abuduntly do you have examples?
    - yurishimo 3y ago
      Are we discounting fast food? I can't speak for everywhere, but in Dallas, many chains are open 24/7. Whataburger is a Texas franchise that has been 24/7 for basically it's entire history in all locations. They are closed for Christmas and Thanksgiving only. McDonalds is 24/7 in most major cities. In Dallas proper, there are some smaller (local) chains that are frequently open until 2 or 3am but admittedly they mostly cater to the bar crowd who wants something to eat before heading home after drinking all night. Café Brazil is a local Denny's/IHOP type diner that is open 24/7 including major holidays! Your addition of "abundantly" makes things more ambiguous, but I think the choices available in most large US cities is _decent_ after midnight. Can you get absolutely anything like NYC? No, probably, not. But burgers, diners, and fast food are all generally available. That's also ignoring 24/7 grocery stores like Walmart that can fill in the gaps if you're craving something hyper specific. Perhaps you can't buy it ready-made, but you can buy the ingredients!