5 ms·

> The study looked at health data of 12 million people between January 2008 and March 2019 and found that 27.5 per cent of people who visited an emergency room

> The study looked at health data of 12 million people between January 2008 and March 2019 and found that 27.5 per cent of people who visited an emergency room for cannabis use developed an anxiety disorder for the first time within three years. Others are way better at judging a study's methodology but this immediately caught my eye. Shouldn't we also look at cannabis users who didn't visit an ER? And what else was in those people's blood at the time? THC vs CBD? Obviously no link to the actual study so it's hard to judge really.

LordDragonfang 3y ago
Also, what's the base rate of developing an anxiety disorder? NIH says: > An estimated 19.1% of U.S. adults had any anxiety disorder in the past year. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/any-anxiety-disorder https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/any-anxiety-disor... That's pretty high already, and I imagine the base rates for anxiety developing among "people who have to be hospitalized for any reason" are much higher than the general pop.
- buffington 3y ago
  Am I right in seeing that the data referenced in that article was collected between 2001-2004? If so, I wonder how that compares to today. I suspect we'd see much higher numbers for data collected 2019-2023, given the pandemic and associated garbage fires.
j4yav 3y ago
What does it mean to visit an ER for cannnabis? Wouldn’t that typically be an anxiety attack in the first place?
- throwanem 3y ago
  If you've never had a panic attack before, the first one is easy to mistake for something a lot more dangerous.
  - antod 3y ago
    During a mental health first aid course, I remember being told those mistakes can (admittedly rarely) happen in the other direction too. ie someone thinking they were having a panic attack actually having a heart attack instead. The advice was to go call an ambulance anyway for someone having a serious panic attack. But for what it's worth, that advice was given somewhere where calling ambulances won't cost you.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - user_7832 3y ago
      A friend of my father unfortunately had a similar issue. Complained of acidity in the morning, dead from a heart attack by afternoon. It's much better to be over-cautious in such cases.
      - shutupnerd0000 3y ago
        The key word here is father. If you're in your 20s or 30s, chances of it being heart attack instead of panic attack are incredibly low.
        user_7832 3y ago
        While I mostly agree, I myself unfortunately very likely experienced pericarditis after my covid shot. Worst pain I've had in a long time, but I was "sure" it was just gas and "couldn't be a heart issue because it's been going on for x hours or else I'd have been dead". I wish diagnostics was easier for health & heart conditions.
  - smokracek 3y ago
    Indeed, while not cannabis related, I visited the ER once due to a panic attack (which I did't know at the time). My combination of high heart rate, mild abdominal pain, and a low grade fever triggered their sepsis protocol. This constellation of symptoms caused me to spiral more and eventually I was discharged with nothing more than some chill pills and constipation.
- maxbond 3y ago
  Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome? Asthma attack? Being way too high? Just some guesses.
- steveklabnik 3y ago
  Some consequences of illegal substances are things like "lack of standard dosage" and "lack of consumer education." Someone who has never taken cannabis before, accidentally not realizing they've consumed too much, not knowing how to handle it, and wondering if they're okay, and calling 911 or going to the ER, is not an unfamiliar story.
- TrackerFF 3y ago
  The only I've heard about: - psychosis - green out/being absolutely ripped, and found by others, who in turn will take you to the ER.
tehwebguy 3y ago
> people who visited an emergency room for cannabis use ?
- huytersd 3y ago
  Most people wouldn’t visit an ER for cannabis unless they already had some anxiety disorder that lead to insane amounts of anxiety.
  - bowsamic 3y ago
    That's a strange thing to say, why do you think that? I know a lot of people who don't have anxiety disorders who had an anxiety attack when they first got high, and yes they might think they need to go to the hospital. The physical experience of weed can feel like you're dying
    - huytersd 3y ago
      Most people know you can’t die from cannabis no matter what so in my experience they just sleep through it. I’m assuming people with anxiety disorders can’t rationally think through this scenario when they have taken too much and end up going to the ER.
- dekhn 3y ago
  it's not uncommon for naive (first-time) consumers, especially of edibles, to have intense reactions that lead to ER visits; I suspect that many of those are just folks who have no idea what is going on and interpret the feeling as being dangerous. IIRC the symptoms often include racing heart, intense paranoia, and a general feeling of lack of control. Also the ER is the first line of treatment for many individuals.
spcebar 3y ago
So the study is actually called "Development of an anxiety disorder following an emergency department visit due to cannabis use" and you can check it out here: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(24)00034-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... The study isn't establishing a direct link between cannabis and anxiety, it's looking very specifically at anxiety diagnoses following an ER visit. The findings are interpreted in the study as the following: "ED visits for cannabis use were associated with an increased risk of having an incident healthcare visit for an anxiety disorder, particularly in young males." What exactly that means on the broader context of cannabis use isn't the focus of the study, but it invites further research to explore the implications of their findings.
- throwaway09223 3y ago
  Going to an ER after taking cannabis seems like something only someone with an existing anxiety disorder might do. A more accurate headline might read: People with anxiety disorders who take cannabis may unnecessarily visit the ER.
  - throwanem 3y ago
    > Going to an ER after taking cannabis seems like something only someone with an existing anxiety disorder might do. Twenty or thirty years ago, I'd have agreed with you on this, but potency that's normal today wouldn't even have been a dream back then. If you think that makes no difference, I'm here to tell you you are wrong.
    - hirvi74 3y ago
      I constantly see this, but haven't people been making concentrates for 1000s of years? I imagine ancient Nepali hash would probably rock a lot of people's world still to this day.
      - supertofu 3y ago
        Sure, but Nepali hash was being taken in a much different cultural context (religious, often) by people who were generally very prepared for its consequences.
devwastaken 3y ago
yes, its bunk science as usual. soft sciences cannoy isolate the variables necessary to make evidence supported conclusions. They are only opinions. What this study says to me is that emergency rooms cause the anxiety disorders. If you visit the ER and mention you have consumed any illegal substance, that information is entered into your medical record and can be used against you by the government later. ER's also try to force people into "treatment" and social programs that they cannot participate in if they use cannabis.
- buffington 3y ago
  I'd be interested in reading about some of what you describe in more detail. Can you provide any links to things?
- bettercaust 3y ago
  This study isn't "bunk science", nor is medicine a "soft science". It's just silly to apply your own government paranoia to the 12 million people in the study cohort without rational reason to do so.
  - devwastaken 3y ago
    "government paranoia" makes a person a historian. What I said and the consequences of it, are fact. Feel free to try yourself. Perhaps read some history on the FBI, war on drugs, ATF, etc. It's all on wikipedia and well sourced from those orgs themselves. Studying 12 million people and controlling the variables properly is not possible, thats why it's a "soft science" study that cannot honestly make any good conclusions. There is no version of this kind of study that can produce good results because the details necessary make that scale impossible.

LordDragonfang 3y ago

Also, what's the base rate of developing an anxiety disorder? NIH says: > An estimated 19.1% of U.S. adults had any anxiety disorder in the past year. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/any-anxiety-disorder https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/any-anxiety-disor... That's pretty high already, and I imagine the base rates for anxiety developing among "people who have to be hospitalized for any reason" are much higher than the general pop.

buffington 3y ago
Am I right in seeing that the data referenced in that article was collected between 2001-2004? If so, I wonder how that compares to today. I suspect we'd see much higher numbers for data collected 2019-2023, given the pandemic and associated garbage fires.

j4yav 3y ago

What does it mean to visit an ER for cannnabis? Wouldn’t that typically be an anxiety attack in the first place?

throwanem 3y ago
If you've never had a panic attack before, the first one is easy to mistake for something a lot more dangerous.
- antod 3y ago
  During a mental health first aid course, I remember being told those mistakes can (admittedly rarely) happen in the other direction too. ie someone thinking they were having a panic attack actually having a heart attack instead. The advice was to go call an ambulance anyway for someone having a serious panic attack. But for what it's worth, that advice was given somewhere where calling ambulances won't cost you.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - user_7832 3y ago
    A friend of my father unfortunately had a similar issue. Complained of acidity in the morning, dead from a heart attack by afternoon. It's much better to be over-cautious in such cases.
    - shutupnerd0000 3y ago
      The key word here is father. If you're in your 20s or 30s, chances of it being heart attack instead of panic attack are incredibly low.
      - user_7832 3y ago
        While I mostly agree, I myself unfortunately very likely experienced pericarditis after my covid shot. Worst pain I've had in a long time, but I was "sure" it was just gas and "couldn't be a heart issue because it's been going on for x hours or else I'd have been dead". I wish diagnostics was easier for health & heart conditions.
- smokracek 3y ago
  Indeed, while not cannabis related, I visited the ER once due to a panic attack (which I did't know at the time). My combination of high heart rate, mild abdominal pain, and a low grade fever triggered their sepsis protocol. This constellation of symptoms caused me to spiral more and eventually I was discharged with nothing more than some chill pills and constipation.
maxbond 3y ago
Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome? Asthma attack? Being way too high? Just some guesses.
steveklabnik 3y ago
Some consequences of illegal substances are things like "lack of standard dosage" and "lack of consumer education." Someone who has never taken cannabis before, accidentally not realizing they've consumed too much, not knowing how to handle it, and wondering if they're okay, and calling 911 or going to the ER, is not an unfamiliar story.
TrackerFF 3y ago
The only I've heard about: - psychosis - green out/being absolutely ripped, and found by others, who in turn will take you to the ER.

tehwebguy 3y ago

> people who visited an emergency room for cannabis use ?

huytersd 3y ago
Most people wouldn’t visit an ER for cannabis unless they already had some anxiety disorder that lead to insane amounts of anxiety.
- bowsamic 3y ago
  That's a strange thing to say, why do you think that? I know a lot of people who don't have anxiety disorders who had an anxiety attack when they first got high, and yes they might think they need to go to the hospital. The physical experience of weed can feel like you're dying
  - huytersd 3y ago
    Most people know you can’t die from cannabis no matter what so in my experience they just sleep through it. I’m assuming people with anxiety disorders can’t rationally think through this scenario when they have taken too much and end up going to the ER.
dekhn 3y ago
it's not uncommon for naive (first-time) consumers, especially of edibles, to have intense reactions that lead to ER visits; I suspect that many of those are just folks who have no idea what is going on and interpret the feeling as being dangerous. IIRC the symptoms often include racing heart, intense paranoia, and a general feeling of lack of control. Also the ER is the first line of treatment for many individuals.

spcebar 3y ago

So the study is actually called "Development of an anxiety disorder following an emergency department visit due to cannabis use" and you can check it out here: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(24)00034-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... The study isn't establishing a direct link between cannabis and anxiety, it's looking very specifically at anxiety diagnoses following an ER visit. The findings are interpreted in the study as the following: "ED visits for cannabis use were associated with an increased risk of having an incident healthcare visit for an anxiety disorder, particularly in young males." What exactly that means on the broader context of cannabis use isn't the focus of the study, but it invites further research to explore the implications of their findings.

throwaway09223 3y ago
Going to an ER after taking cannabis seems like something only someone with an existing anxiety disorder might do. A more accurate headline might read: People with anxiety disorders who take cannabis may unnecessarily visit the ER.
- throwanem 3y ago
  > Going to an ER after taking cannabis seems like something only someone with an existing anxiety disorder might do. Twenty or thirty years ago, I'd have agreed with you on this, but potency that's normal today wouldn't even have been a dream back then. If you think that makes no difference, I'm here to tell you you are wrong.
  - hirvi74 3y ago
    I constantly see this, but haven't people been making concentrates for 1000s of years? I imagine ancient Nepali hash would probably rock a lot of people's world still to this day.
    - supertofu 3y ago
      Sure, but Nepali hash was being taken in a much different cultural context (religious, often) by people who were generally very prepared for its consequences.

devwastaken 3y ago

yes, its bunk science as usual. soft sciences cannoy isolate the variables necessary to make evidence supported conclusions. They are only opinions. What this study says to me is that emergency rooms cause the anxiety disorders. If you visit the ER and mention you have consumed any illegal substance, that information is entered into your medical record and can be used against you by the government later. ER's also try to force people into "treatment" and social programs that they cannot participate in if they use cannabis.

buffington 3y ago
I'd be interested in reading about some of what you describe in more detail. Can you provide any links to things?
bettercaust 3y ago
This study isn't "bunk science", nor is medicine a "soft science". It's just silly to apply your own government paranoia to the 12 million people in the study cohort without rational reason to do so.
- devwastaken 3y ago
  "government paranoia" makes a person a historian. What I said and the consequences of it, are fact. Feel free to try yourself. Perhaps read some history on the FBI, war on drugs, ATF, etc. It's all on wikipedia and well sourced from those orgs themselves. Studying 12 million people and controlling the variables properly is not possible, thats why it's a "soft science" study that cannot honestly make any good conclusions. There is no version of this kind of study that can produce good results because the details necessary make that scale impossible.