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We are literally building this today! Our core business is legal document generation (rule based logic, no AI). Since we already have the users' legal document

We are literally building this today! Our core business is legal document generation (rule based logic, no AI). Since we already have the users' legal documents available to us as a result of our core business, we are perfectly positioned to build supplementary AI chat features related to legal documents. We recently deployed a product recommendation AI to prod (partially rule based, but personalized recommendation texts generated by GPT-4). We are currently building AI chat features to help users understand different legal documents and our services. We're intending to replace the first level of customer support with this AI chat (and before you get upset, know that the first level of customer support is currently a very bad rule-based AI). Main website in Finnish: https://aatos.app https://aatos.app (also some services for SE and DK, plus we recently opened UK with just a e-sign service)

baobabKoodaa 3y ago
Here's an example of what our product recommendations look like: Given your ownership in a company and real estate, a lasting power of attorney is a prudent step. This allows you to appoint PARTNER_NAME or another trusted individual to manage your business and property affairs in the event of incapacitation. Additionally, it can also provide tax benefits by allowing tax-free gifts to your children, helping to avoid unnecessary inheritance taxes and secure the financial future of your large family.
Closi 3y ago
> Since we already have the users' legal documents available to us as a result of our core business, we are perfectly positioned to build supplementary AI chat features related to legal documents. Uhh... What are the privacy implications here?!
- baobabKoodaa 3y ago
  If you look at the example I posted of our product recommendations, you will see that the GPT-4 generated text contains "PARTNER_NAME" instead of actual partner name. That's because we've created anonymized dataset from users in such a way that it's literally impossible for OpenAI to deanonymize users. Of course the same can not be done if we want to provide a service where users can, for example, chat with their legal documents. In that case we will have to send some private details to OpenAI. Not sure how that will pan out (what details we decide to send and what we decide not to send). In any case, all startups today are created on top of a mountain of cloud services. Any one of those services can leak private user data as a result of outsider hack or insider attack or accident. OpenAI is just one more cloud service on top of the mountain.
nicce 3y ago
So, let’s say that the chat will work as well as the real lawyer some day. If the current pricing would be $500 an hour for a real lawyer, and at some point your costs are just keeping services up and running, how big cut will you take? Because it is enough if you are only a little cheaper than the real lawyer to win customers. There is an upcoming monopoly problem, if the users get the best information from the service after they submit all their documents. And soon the normal lawyer might be competitive enough. I fear that the future is in the parent commenter’s open platfrom with open models and the businesses should extract money from some other use cases, while for a while, you get money momentarily based on the typical ”I am first, I have the user base” situation. It is interesting to see what will happen to lawyers.
- baobabKoodaa 3y ago
  > If the current pricing would be $500 an hour for a real lawyer, and at some point your costs are just keeping services up and running, how big cut will you take? Zero. We're providing the AI chat for free (or free for customers who purchase something from us, or some mix of those 2 choices). Our core business is generating documents for people, and the AI chat is supplementary to the core business. It sounds like you're approaching the topic with the mindset that lawyers might be entirely replaced by automation. That's not what we're trying to do. We can roughly divide legal work into 3 categories: 1. Difficult legal work which requires a human lawyer to spend time on a case by case basis (at least for now). 2. Cookie cutter legal work that is often done by a human in practice, but can be automated by products like ours. 3. Low value legal issues that people have and would like to resolve, but are not worth paying a lawyer for. We're trying to supply markets 2 and 3. We're not trying to supply market 1. For example, you might want a lawyer to explain to you what is the difference between a joint will and an individual will in a particular circumstance. But it might not be worth it to pay a lawyer to talk it through. This is exactly the type of scenario where an AI chat can resolve your legal question which might otherwise go unanswered.
  - nicce 3y ago
    > It sounds like you're approaching the topic with the mindset that lawyers might be entirely replaced by automation. That is the cynical future, however, and based on the evolution speed of the last year, it is not too far away. We humans are just interfaces for information and logic. If the chatbot has the same capabilities (both information and logic, and natural language), then they will provide full automation. The natural language aspect of AI is the revolutionary point, less about the actual information they provide. Quoting Bill Gates here, like the GUI was revolutionary. When everyone can interact and use something, it will remove all the experts that you needed before as middle man.

baobabKoodaa 3y ago

Here's an example of what our product recommendations look like: Given your ownership in a company and real estate, a lasting power of attorney is a prudent step. This allows you to appoint PARTNER_NAME or another trusted individual to manage your business and property affairs in the event of incapacitation. Additionally, it can also provide tax benefits by allowing tax-free gifts to your children, helping to avoid unnecessary inheritance taxes and secure the financial future of your large family.

Closi 3y ago

> Since we already have the users' legal documents available to us as a result of our core business, we are perfectly positioned to build supplementary AI chat features related to legal documents. Uhh... What are the privacy implications here?!

baobabKoodaa 3y ago
If you look at the example I posted of our product recommendations, you will see that the GPT-4 generated text contains "PARTNER_NAME" instead of actual partner name. That's because we've created anonymized dataset from users in such a way that it's literally impossible for OpenAI to deanonymize users. Of course the same can not be done if we want to provide a service where users can, for example, chat with their legal documents. In that case we will have to send some private details to OpenAI. Not sure how that will pan out (what details we decide to send and what we decide not to send). In any case, all startups today are created on top of a mountain of cloud services. Any one of those services can leak private user data as a result of outsider hack or insider attack or accident. OpenAI is just one more cloud service on top of the mountain.

nicce 3y ago

So, let’s say that the chat will work as well as the real lawyer some day. If the current pricing would be $500 an hour for a real lawyer, and at some point your costs are just keeping services up and running, how big cut will you take? Because it is enough if you are only a little cheaper than the real lawyer to win customers. There is an upcoming monopoly problem, if the users get the best information from the service after they submit all their documents. And soon the normal lawyer might be competitive enough. I fear that the future is in the parent commenter’s open platfrom with open models and the businesses should extract money from some other use cases, while for a while, you get money momentarily based on the typical ”I am first, I have the user base” situation. It is interesting to see what will happen to lawyers.

baobabKoodaa 3y ago
> If the current pricing would be $500 an hour for a real lawyer, and at some point your costs are just keeping services up and running, how big cut will you take? Zero. We're providing the AI chat for free (or free for customers who purchase something from us, or some mix of those 2 choices). Our core business is generating documents for people, and the AI chat is supplementary to the core business. It sounds like you're approaching the topic with the mindset that lawyers might be entirely replaced by automation. That's not what we're trying to do. We can roughly divide legal work into 3 categories: 1. Difficult legal work which requires a human lawyer to spend time on a case by case basis (at least for now). 2. Cookie cutter legal work that is often done by a human in practice, but can be automated by products like ours. 3. Low value legal issues that people have and would like to resolve, but are not worth paying a lawyer for. We're trying to supply markets 2 and 3. We're not trying to supply market 1. For example, you might want a lawyer to explain to you what is the difference between a joint will and an individual will in a particular circumstance. But it might not be worth it to pay a lawyer to talk it through. This is exactly the type of scenario where an AI chat can resolve your legal question which might otherwise go unanswered.
- nicce 3y ago
  > It sounds like you're approaching the topic with the mindset that lawyers might be entirely replaced by automation. That is the cynical future, however, and based on the evolution speed of the last year, it is not too far away. We humans are just interfaces for information and logic. If the chatbot has the same capabilities (both information and logic, and natural language), then they will provide full automation. The natural language aspect of AI is the revolutionary point, less about the actual information they provide. Quoting Bill Gates here, like the GUI was revolutionary. When everyone can interact and use something, it will remove all the experts that you needed before as middle man.