7 ms·

A friend was an LAPD detective for 30 something years. Now retired. Extremely nice person. He emphatically told me I should never, ever, ever talk to the Polic

by grecy 3y ago

A friend was an LAPD detective for 30 something years. Now retired. Extremely nice person. He emphatically told me I should never, ever, ever talk to the Police. Even if I witness a hit and run and just happen to be standing there and they walk over to me. Any one of 10,000 scenarios where the Police ask me for something, or want me to give information about something (even if I wasn't there). They are actively searching for someone to blame, and if you happen to say the wrong words while trying your utmost to be helpful, they'll happily pin it on you.

oglop 3y ago
Ok, so you know society breaks down at the limit of what you are saying, right? Also the example is ludicrous, you're saying the cops would try to blame someone for a hit and run that isn't even in a car. No, the cops are not that cartoonishly bad. Some cops in some departments may be, and I can almost guess the cities, but the average cop is not a monster, they're just some person like you or me.
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  they won't blame you for the hit and run, but what if a store near there gets robbed an hour after you talk to them, and they decide you're a suspect because you look somewhat like the description and they know you were in the area?
  - dekhn 3y ago
    I think you're stretching to make your point here. You can construct many "what ifs", but they mainly apply if the police are actively subverting the normal rules of law or incompetent. There are a subset of cops who are corrupt, or racist, or classist, where merely interacting with the police can lead to serious outcomes, but that's sort of a different problem that has to be addressed more systematically.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      > You can construct many "what ifs", but they mainly apply if the police are actively subverting the normal rules of law or incompetent. Cops in the US barely receive training - the average length is 22 weeks, while Germany clocks in at 2.5 years [1]. Of course a lot of police will be incompetent in the first place given the length and priorities of these trainings, made worse by cargo-culting from "senior" officers and by "killology" training [2]. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-training-us-falls-short-compared-rest-world/story?id=96729748 https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-training-us-falls-short-com... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/11/police-training-warrior-mindset-killology/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/11/police-trai...
    - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
      > There are a subset of cops who are corrupt, or racist, or classist, where merely interacting with the police can lead to serious outcomes, but that's sort of a different problem that has to be addressed more systematically. The fundamental problem is that you don't know whether the police officer you are talking to is good or not, and if you find out, it is too late. Talking to a police officer is like petting someone else's dog. Don't do so unless you've talked to someone who feeds it first.
- autoexec 3y ago
  > the average cop is not a monster, they're just some person like you or me. The average person like you or me who becomes a cop gets chased out of the profession because they wouldn't turn a blind eye to the crimes their fellow officers commit against the public. Everyone left is most likely either just as guilty or complicit and enabling.
  - int_19h 3y ago
    "Chased out" is the mildest version, even. There was a case of police whistleblower who ended up with no backup each time they were responding to a dangerous call, for example. Or that guy in NYC who was forcibly institutionalized by his fellow cops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft
- immibis 3y ago
  Yes - society breaks down when cops act dishonestly and people stop trusting them. That is a good reason to fire the dishonest cops and hire honest ones, but in the current climate, that can't happen.
  - threatofrain 3y ago
    There needs to be prosecution and not just firing. When an engineer lies in a legal setting and consequently gets someone put into jail for years, should they merely be fired?
- throwway120385 3y ago
  I would say you should pay attention to who you're talking to. Some cops are that cartoonishly bad. My wife worked retail at TMobile and had cops come into the store at times trying to get information about customers. Most of them would accept the corporate policy and go talk to legal about the information they needed. One police officer started having a meltdown, sweating profusely, got visibly angry, and made her present her ID whereupon he wrote down her driver's license number, address, full legal name, etc.. She spent the next month or so dreading what he was going to do in retaliation. All because she redirected him to their legal department for information about a customer.
  - Vinnl 3y ago
    What are you supposed to do though? Surely stating that you don't want to talk to him or want a lawyer isn't likely to be deescalating?
  - engineer_22 3y ago
    So... what happened?
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  I think that's the observation you are both making. Society has broken down right at that limit.
- int_19h 3y ago
  It sure does. So we better make it so that cops behave in ways that actually make people trust them, and fast. Anecdotally, I feel that most people my age or younger already treat the law in general, and law enforcement in particular, as some kind of mostly destructive force of nature that you do your best to stay out of the way of. It doesn't help that whenever police organize in any capacity, denying and covering up abuses always seems one of the goal. Just look at what FOP says every time there's a police shooting.
barbazoo 3y ago
> Even if I witness a hit and run and just happen to be standing there and they walk over to me. > They are actively searching for someone to blame That seems very, very far fetched.
dekhn 3y ago
I can't imagine not acting as a witness to an accident (especially hit and run).
legitster 3y ago
That example is pretty bunk. I've literally been that person talking to the police after a traffic accident dozens of times. They have never asked for an ID, 90% of the time they don't even ask for your name, and maybe 50% of the time they ask for a phone number (they have never called back). There are absolutely police officers who are lazy or will power trip or love busting perps. But each officer is not starting dozens of investigations every day. Especially the beat cops you are most likely to run into.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  What do you do that causes you to witness dozens of traffic accidents?
  - legitster 3y ago
    Dozens might be an exaggeration, but at least a dozen. I had a job that required me to drive a lot in urban environments, and I regularly pulled over for good Samaritan stops. I also briefly worked at a motel in the middle of nowhere and you better believe that regular conversations with police officers is a critical aspect of the job.
    - pixl97 3y ago
      Experience with law enforcement is 100% affected by the biases the officer you are talking to suffers from. If you're the middle class, middle American, nicely dressed, and got that harmless look. Well, expect things to go pretty well. Business owners of non-sus businesses generally have it pretty good too. Are you a minority? Not dressed well? A youth? Well, things can go sideways for you quick.
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  The problem is that you are both right, and in a way that can't be meaningfully predicted. The stakes are incredibly high, too.
  - 3y ago
tzs 3y ago
This is how you persuade citizens to accept widespread surveillance. If people know that if they get hit by a car or robbed or something like that none of the witness will talk to the police they are going to be way more inclined to support more surveillance.

by grecy 3y ago

oglop 3y ago

Ok, so you know society breaks down at the limit of what you are saying, right? Also the example is ludicrous, you're saying the cops would try to blame someone for a hit and run that isn't even in a car. No, the cops are not that cartoonishly bad. Some cops in some departments may be, and I can almost guess the cities, but the average cop is not a monster, they're just some person like you or me.

adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
they won't blame you for the hit and run, but what if a store near there gets robbed an hour after you talk to them, and they decide you're a suspect because you look somewhat like the description and they know you were in the area?
- dekhn 3y ago
  I think you're stretching to make your point here. You can construct many "what ifs", but they mainly apply if the police are actively subverting the normal rules of law or incompetent. There are a subset of cops who are corrupt, or racist, or classist, where merely interacting with the police can lead to serious outcomes, but that's sort of a different problem that has to be addressed more systematically.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    > You can construct many "what ifs", but they mainly apply if the police are actively subverting the normal rules of law or incompetent. Cops in the US barely receive training - the average length is 22 weeks, while Germany clocks in at 2.5 years [1]. Of course a lot of police will be incompetent in the first place given the length and priorities of these trainings, made worse by cargo-culting from "senior" officers and by "killology" training [2]. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-training-us-falls-short-compared-rest-world/story?id=96729748 https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-training-us-falls-short-com... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/11/police-training-warrior-mindset-killology/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/11/police-trai...
  - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
    > There are a subset of cops who are corrupt, or racist, or classist, where merely interacting with the police can lead to serious outcomes, but that's sort of a different problem that has to be addressed more systematically. The fundamental problem is that you don't know whether the police officer you are talking to is good or not, and if you find out, it is too late. Talking to a police officer is like petting someone else's dog. Don't do so unless you've talked to someone who feeds it first.
autoexec 3y ago
> the average cop is not a monster, they're just some person like you or me. The average person like you or me who becomes a cop gets chased out of the profession because they wouldn't turn a blind eye to the crimes their fellow officers commit against the public. Everyone left is most likely either just as guilty or complicit and enabling.
- int_19h 3y ago
  "Chased out" is the mildest version, even. There was a case of police whistleblower who ended up with no backup each time they were responding to a dangerous call, for example. Or that guy in NYC who was forcibly institutionalized by his fellow cops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft
immibis 3y ago
Yes - society breaks down when cops act dishonestly and people stop trusting them. That is a good reason to fire the dishonest cops and hire honest ones, but in the current climate, that can't happen.
- threatofrain 3y ago
  There needs to be prosecution and not just firing. When an engineer lies in a legal setting and consequently gets someone put into jail for years, should they merely be fired?
throwway120385 3y ago
I would say you should pay attention to who you're talking to. Some cops are that cartoonishly bad. My wife worked retail at TMobile and had cops come into the store at times trying to get information about customers. Most of them would accept the corporate policy and go talk to legal about the information they needed. One police officer started having a meltdown, sweating profusely, got visibly angry, and made her present her ID whereupon he wrote down her driver's license number, address, full legal name, etc.. She spent the next month or so dreading what he was going to do in retaliation. All because she redirected him to their legal department for information about a customer.
- Vinnl 3y ago
  What are you supposed to do though? Surely stating that you don't want to talk to him or want a lawyer isn't likely to be deescalating?
- engineer_22 3y ago
  So... what happened?
thomastjeffery 3y ago
I think that's the observation you are both making. Society has broken down right at that limit.
int_19h 3y ago
It sure does. So we better make it so that cops behave in ways that actually make people trust them, and fast. Anecdotally, I feel that most people my age or younger already treat the law in general, and law enforcement in particular, as some kind of mostly destructive force of nature that you do your best to stay out of the way of. It doesn't help that whenever police organize in any capacity, denying and covering up abuses always seems one of the goal. Just look at what FOP says every time there's a police shooting.

barbazoo 3y ago

> Even if I witness a hit and run and just happen to be standing there and they walk over to me. > They are actively searching for someone to blame That seems very, very far fetched.

dekhn 3y ago

I can't imagine not acting as a witness to an accident (especially hit and run).

legitster 3y ago

That example is pretty bunk. I've literally been that person talking to the police after a traffic accident dozens of times. They have never asked for an ID, 90% of the time they don't even ask for your name, and maybe 50% of the time they ask for a phone number (they have never called back). There are absolutely police officers who are lazy or will power trip or love busting perps. But each officer is not starting dozens of investigations every day. Especially the beat cops you are most likely to run into.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
What do you do that causes you to witness dozens of traffic accidents?
- legitster 3y ago
  Dozens might be an exaggeration, but at least a dozen. I had a job that required me to drive a lot in urban environments, and I regularly pulled over for good Samaritan stops. I also briefly worked at a motel in the middle of nowhere and you better believe that regular conversations with police officers is a critical aspect of the job.
  - pixl97 3y ago
    Experience with law enforcement is 100% affected by the biases the officer you are talking to suffers from. If you're the middle class, middle American, nicely dressed, and got that harmless look. Well, expect things to go pretty well. Business owners of non-sus businesses generally have it pretty good too. Are you a minority? Not dressed well? A youth? Well, things can go sideways for you quick.
thomastjeffery 3y ago
The problem is that you are both right, and in a way that can't be meaningfully predicted. The stakes are incredibly high, too.
- 3y ago

tzs 3y ago

This is how you persuade citizens to accept widespread surveillance. If people know that if they get hit by a car or robbed or something like that none of the witness will talk to the police they are going to be way more inclined to support more surveillance.