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It blows my mind that Google is celebrating a 1 million dollar grant to something that serves as a cornerstone of every aspect of the future of their business.

It blows my mind that Google is celebrating a 1 million dollar grant to something that serves as a cornerstone of every aspect of the future of their business. $1 mil is less than a rounding error for an organization like that. I'd love to know how much they've burned on the numerous projects that occupy their product graveyard, and imagine a future where that was devoted to the growth and education surrounding core language development in every language - Rust, Go, C++, Python, etc.

erdaniels 3y ago
How much do you think they should allocate to rust?
- refulgentis 3y ago
  4.5 million is a good start for a project of this magnitude affecting this much of Google. Back 5-10 years ago Google tended to calculate opportunities in SWE-years. Roughly $300K/engineer. So I'm asking for 5 engineers for 3 years.
  - summerlight 3y ago
    I think there's a dedicated Rust team in Google working on interop between C++/Rust. If you count this as well, it would be close to that number.
MuffinFlavored 3y ago
> $1 mil is less than a rounding error for an organization like that. That's 4 $200k/yr engineers working on this full time and then 1 $200k/yr manager to keep them on track.
- refulgentis 3y ago
  For a year only?
- gdcbe 3y ago
  The money will last a lot longer if you go with EU Engineers for just as excellent quality…
  - avgcorrection 3y ago
    Well, what about the SC landlords?
  - VirusNewbie 3y ago
    >EU Engineers for just as excellent quality… There is a group of highly intelligent people who want to go into lucrative careers that won't pick CS in the EU, and they do in the US because of the pay. I think it's pretty apparent that, while there is fantastic talent in the EU, the density isn't as high as it in in the US.
steveklabnik 3y ago
> something that serves as a cornerstone of every aspect of the future of their business. I think it's great that Google has been embracing Rust, but this feels hyperbolic to me.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  It's hyperbolic for now but not for the future, I suspect. Sounds like chunks of Android are going Rust, but they have also bet big on Rust in Fuchsia. So if Fuchsia has a real future (a questionable proposition), Rust is a huge "cornerstone" of that.
  - steveklabnik 3y ago
    Even if we assume that Fuchsia and Android are 100% rust, I would find “the cornerstone of their entire business” to be hyperbolic. Yes, these are important projects. It is a big deal. But there’s way more to Google than these two things.
    - LoganDark 3y ago
      Well, the fact that they're not 100% Rust means that Rust/C++ interoperability is important to them because they want to add Rust components. Isn't that what's happening here?
      - steveklabnik 3y ago
        Sure. That doesn't change that "a cornerstone of every aspect of the future of their business" isn't hyperbolic. That said, the OP has clarified that they didn't mean that Rust was this thing, but that language development in general is.
- digdugdirk 3y ago
  Admittedly poor phrasing, thanks for pointing that out. I meant more "core language development" rather than Rust specifically. A quick search shows they spent almost $40 billion last year on development expenses. I'd like to imagine the alternate reality where even just $100mil of that was spread out across various core language organizations.
sho_hn 3y ago
I don't know if you have much experience running non-profits, but giving an overly large one-time grant to an org which isn't necessarily prepared for it can be a fairly bad idea and often leads to the org doing mad yo-yo things and ending up penniless. Spending money requires a certain amount of structure and process, and it takes a while to adapt to a money windfall. Going from a little money to a lot changes an org very significantly. Granted, I also haven't looked much into the Rust Foundation, but I'm going to assume a $1 mio is significant for them. Google can always donate more down the road when the investment pays off and is digested usefully. (Edit: The Rust Foundation had an income of $2.89 mio in 2022 and $2.56 mio in 2023 according to their annual reports. $1 mio sounds about right for what they should be able to usefully handle, from the gut.)
- willdr 3y ago
  This seems like a cop-out by one of the largest companies in the world to avoid giving back to the tools and languages they use to extract their profit. If you're worried about funds mismanagement, assign some oversight, add a distribution schedule (5m over 5 years) and so on.
  - sho_hn 3y ago
    > This seems like a cop-out by one of the largest companies in the world I'm not affiliated with Google in any way.
germandiago 3y ago
While it is true they are interested in this going forward, I do not see why Google should be critiziced for investing money where they find appropiate as long as it is their money and not someone else money.

erdaniels 3y ago

How much do you think they should allocate to rust?

refulgentis 3y ago
4.5 million is a good start for a project of this magnitude affecting this much of Google. Back 5-10 years ago Google tended to calculate opportunities in SWE-years. Roughly $300K/engineer. So I'm asking for 5 engineers for 3 years.
- summerlight 3y ago
  I think there's a dedicated Rust team in Google working on interop between C++/Rust. If you count this as well, it would be close to that number.

MuffinFlavored 3y ago

> $1 mil is less than a rounding error for an organization like that. That's 4 $200k/yr engineers working on this full time and then 1 $200k/yr manager to keep them on track.

refulgentis 3y ago
For a year only?
gdcbe 3y ago
The money will last a lot longer if you go with EU Engineers for just as excellent quality…
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  Well, what about the SC landlords?
- VirusNewbie 3y ago
  >EU Engineers for just as excellent quality… There is a group of highly intelligent people who want to go into lucrative careers that won't pick CS in the EU, and they do in the US because of the pay. I think it's pretty apparent that, while there is fantastic talent in the EU, the density isn't as high as it in in the US.

steveklabnik 3y ago

> something that serves as a cornerstone of every aspect of the future of their business. I think it's great that Google has been embracing Rust, but this feels hyperbolic to me.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago
It's hyperbolic for now but not for the future, I suspect. Sounds like chunks of Android are going Rust, but they have also bet big on Rust in Fuchsia. So if Fuchsia has a real future (a questionable proposition), Rust is a huge "cornerstone" of that.
- steveklabnik 3y ago
  Even if we assume that Fuchsia and Android are 100% rust, I would find “the cornerstone of their entire business” to be hyperbolic. Yes, these are important projects. It is a big deal. But there’s way more to Google than these two things.
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    Well, the fact that they're not 100% Rust means that Rust/C++ interoperability is important to them because they want to add Rust components. Isn't that what's happening here?
    - steveklabnik 3y ago
      Sure. That doesn't change that "a cornerstone of every aspect of the future of their business" isn't hyperbolic. That said, the OP has clarified that they didn't mean that Rust was this thing, but that language development in general is.
digdugdirk 3y ago
Admittedly poor phrasing, thanks for pointing that out. I meant more "core language development" rather than Rust specifically. A quick search shows they spent almost $40 billion last year on development expenses. I'd like to imagine the alternate reality where even just $100mil of that was spread out across various core language organizations.

sho_hn 3y ago

I don't know if you have much experience running non-profits, but giving an overly large one-time grant to an org which isn't necessarily prepared for it can be a fairly bad idea and often leads to the org doing mad yo-yo things and ending up penniless. Spending money requires a certain amount of structure and process, and it takes a while to adapt to a money windfall. Going from a little money to a lot changes an org very significantly. Granted, I also haven't looked much into the Rust Foundation, but I'm going to assume a $1 mio is significant for them. Google can always donate more down the road when the investment pays off and is digested usefully. (Edit: The Rust Foundation had an income of $2.89 mio in 2022 and $2.56 mio in 2023 according to their annual reports. $1 mio sounds about right for what they should be able to usefully handle, from the gut.)

willdr 3y ago
This seems like a cop-out by one of the largest companies in the world to avoid giving back to the tools and languages they use to extract their profit. If you're worried about funds mismanagement, assign some oversight, add a distribution schedule (5m over 5 years) and so on.
- sho_hn 3y ago
  > This seems like a cop-out by one of the largest companies in the world I'm not affiliated with Google in any way.

germandiago 3y ago

While it is true they are interested in this going forward, I do not see why Google should be critiziced for investing money where they find appropiate as long as it is their money and not someone else money.