42 ms·

Then they should be publicly run and free to take and send to universities.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
There is a lot of support for students who can’t afford to take the test. What isn’t really included is test prep. China has the gaokao, which everyone can take, but the prep factor is real even if they tried to outlaw it.
- ghaff 3y ago
  But your local library probably has test prep books. I know things have gotten more competitive since back in the day but you can probably get 90% of the way there without expensive test prep courses. (Yes, it takes time and commitment but it's mostly not the case that paying for test prep courses automatically translates into higher scores.)
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    I prepped on my own and did really good, but I was middle class and had a lot of other advantages. Prepping isn’t just about having access to prep material, but coaching that encourages you to actually practice the material.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Absolutely. If someone isn't from a household that values the idea of test prep and education more broadly, that's a huge disadvantage. It's just the idea that if you can't plop down whatever a test prep class costs that, in itself, is a huge inhibitor is mostly not true.
    - localhost 3y ago
      That's what AI is for, and it does a great job of this today.
    - kccqzy 3y ago
      My friends and I all prepped on our own. It really helped to have that kind of friendly competitive mindset among high school friends to provide each other motivation to one-up everyone else. Of course all of us were middle class, and we were all raised in the kinds of families value education above many things.
      - SoftTalker 3y ago
        If I had suggested to my high school friends that we "prep for the SAT" I think I would have been roundly laughed out of the room.
        kccqzy 3y ago
        Right. So if a high school is full of that kind of kids, someone performing well on the SAT shows more grit and perseverance than my kind of peers. Colleges should rightfully award that.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        It sounds like an award for breaking Goodhart’s law, but it’s amazing how many kids don’t know this one simple trick to getting good grades and getting into a nice university (study for tests using available prep material).
  - jltsiren 3y ago
    The real cost is the opportunity cost. Prepping for a competitive test (I don't know if SAT or ACT is one) is a full-time job. If you work for living, you don't have the time and energy to prepare adequately.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      A lot of it measures high-schooly type stuff. I imagine if you put a SAT down in front of me today, I'd do terribly (especially in math in spite of having advanced degrees). I just don't have instant recall of a lot of the geometry and other stuff at this point. Heck, I'm not sure I could even do long division.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        At least that SAT/ACT isn’t heavy into classic geometry proofs like the gaokao is. It’s literally something you’ll forget after you take the test because trigonometry is so much more effective (Chinese learn both).
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    You can't recognize it's a competition and argue people should be fine with only partial access to what their competitors get. And yes, money helps a lot to brute force what material works for a kid and get motivated teachers. It's not a magic bullet, but it's a lot better than no bullet.
- troupe 3y ago
  Honestly I think their is more free test prep resources than funds for people to pay for the test. A student is never going to have enough time to use all the test prep tools and sample tests that are available for free.
- testfoobar 3y ago
  Excellent, free test prep is available online. School districts will give you free chromebooks. They will give you free internet access points. Education is free and freely available. "Maximize your score with free Official Digital SAT® Prep" https://www.khanacademy.org/digital-sat https://www.khanacademy.org/digital-sat
brigadier132 3y ago
"Should". Every time I read the word "should" I cringe. Everything should be free. I should be able to go to restaurants for free and have the chefs prepare the food for me and the waiters serve me and I should do this and not have to pay money. After all food should be a right.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  > Every time I read the word "should" I cringe. You should probably get that checked out.

There is a lot of support for students who can’t afford to take the test. What isn’t really included is test prep. China has the gaokao, which everyone can take, but the prep factor is real even if they tried to outlaw it.

ghaff 3y ago
But your local library probably has test prep books. I know things have gotten more competitive since back in the day but you can probably get 90% of the way there without expensive test prep courses. (Yes, it takes time and commitment but it's mostly not the case that paying for test prep courses automatically translates into higher scores.)
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  I prepped on my own and did really good, but I was middle class and had a lot of other advantages. Prepping isn’t just about having access to prep material, but coaching that encourages you to actually practice the material.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Absolutely. If someone isn't from a household that values the idea of test prep and education more broadly, that's a huge disadvantage. It's just the idea that if you can't plop down whatever a test prep class costs that, in itself, is a huge inhibitor is mostly not true.
  - localhost 3y ago
    That's what AI is for, and it does a great job of this today.
  - kccqzy 3y ago
    My friends and I all prepped on our own. It really helped to have that kind of friendly competitive mindset among high school friends to provide each other motivation to one-up everyone else. Of course all of us were middle class, and we were all raised in the kinds of families value education above many things.
    - SoftTalker 3y ago
      If I had suggested to my high school friends that we "prep for the SAT" I think I would have been roundly laughed out of the room.
      - kccqzy 3y ago
        Right. So if a high school is full of that kind of kids, someone performing well on the SAT shows more grit and perseverance than my kind of peers. Colleges should rightfully award that.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        It sounds like an award for breaking Goodhart’s law, but it’s amazing how many kids don’t know this one simple trick to getting good grades and getting into a nice university (study for tests using available prep material).
- jltsiren 3y ago
  The real cost is the opportunity cost. Prepping for a competitive test (I don't know if SAT or ACT is one) is a full-time job. If you work for living, you don't have the time and energy to prepare adequately.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    A lot of it measures high-schooly type stuff. I imagine if you put a SAT down in front of me today, I'd do terribly (especially in math in spite of having advanced degrees). I just don't have instant recall of a lot of the geometry and other stuff at this point. Heck, I'm not sure I could even do long division.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      At least that SAT/ACT isn’t heavy into classic geometry proofs like the gaokao is. It’s literally something you’ll forget after you take the test because trigonometry is so much more effective (Chinese learn both).
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  You can't recognize it's a competition and argue people should be fine with only partial access to what their competitors get. And yes, money helps a lot to brute force what material works for a kid and get motivated teachers. It's not a magic bullet, but it's a lot better than no bullet.
troupe 3y ago
Honestly I think their is more free test prep resources than funds for people to pay for the test. A student is never going to have enough time to use all the test prep tools and sample tests that are available for free.
testfoobar 3y ago
Excellent, free test prep is available online. School districts will give you free chromebooks. They will give you free internet access points. Education is free and freely available. "Maximize your score with free Official Digital SAT® Prep" https://www.khanacademy.org/digital-sat https://www.khanacademy.org/digital-sat

brigadier132 3y ago

"Should". Every time I read the word "should" I cringe. Everything should be free. I should be able to go to restaurants for free and have the chefs prepare the food for me and the waiters serve me and I should do this and not have to pay money. After all food should be a right.

BobaFloutist 3y ago
> Every time I read the word "should" I cringe. You should probably get that checked out.