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> runs android 11 that's a bummer. There is a killer new feature on android 12 that allows neostore (F-droid frontend) that allows apps to auto update without

by mcny 3y ago

> runs android 11 that's a bummer. There is a killer new feature on android 12 that allows neostore (F-droid frontend) that allows apps to auto update without me having to remember to manually update them.

tweetle_beetle 3y ago
If you are in the market for a current state of the art e-ink phone, would having to do a few taps a month genuinely stop you buying this model? Seems like a very minor inconvenience for someone who values an esoteric technology combination.
- ranger_danger 3y ago
  > state of the art > android 11
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    The e-ink part can be state of the art even if the rest of the phone isn't
    - fsflover 3y ago
      Until you stop receiving updates.
szszrk 3y ago
Is that really an android 12 feature? F-droid Basic (almost the same app, same dev, same looks, without fancy direct sharing options; you can actually get it via old f-droid) can do that as well. They had to rewrite their implementation of how apps are installed, it took a while. With that only first install of the app needs confirmation.
- mcny 3y ago
  Yes, previously on hacker news https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27218157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27218157 > Android 12 will let alternative app stores update apps automatically (xda-developers.com)
  - dopa42365 3y ago
    With user permission (allow installation from unknown sources or something), that must've been possible for a decade or so already. Is this change just whitelisting a bunch of widely used app stores by default (especially in China)?
    - mcny 3y ago
      > With user permission (allow installation from unknown sources or something), that must've been possible for a decade or so already. > Is this change just whitelisting a bunch of widely used app stores by default (especially in China)? I am not an Android developer so this is just my understanding and could be wrong. No, this is not about installing new applications. This is about allowing updates for apps already installed with user permission. All usual caveats apply. Update must be signed with the same key (it is an actual update, not an uninstall old + install new), yada yada
- e12e 3y ago
  Thanks for the mention of f-droid basic - looks like what I need to have sane updates - without switching to neo store: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.fdroid.basic/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.fdroid.basic/ https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient
starky 3y ago
If you look into other Android E-ink devices they all run Android 11. I can't find where I saw it now, but I looked into it when I bought a Onyx Boox device and it apparently had something to do with the driver blobs for the screen not supporting Android 12 and higher.
- user_7832 3y ago
  Android 12 iirc changed a lot of things and removed some features too. Android 9 & 12 are particularly "notorious" in this regard, I still have my Pixel 5 on A11 as a result. (Accessing all "files"/killing 3rd party file managers is one of the things A12 changed, for example.)
  - paulmd 3y ago
    Unfortunately there was a very good reason for making this change: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/more-than-1000-android-apps-harvest-your-data-even-after-you-deny-permissions/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/more-than-1000-android-apps... There is (of course) always a bunch of hardware that never gets updated when some big shift comes around... but there is also stuff that never gets updated because it was doing something it wasn't supposed to be. You can't really enforce permissions in the absence of good sandboxing. And you can't really enforce permission without app review either, for a variety of social reasons (network effect, breaking unrelated functionality or outright refusing to work unless you give them location permissions, whatever). Which is the problem with the "just allow sideloading, bing bong so simple" crowd's argument, there already is ample evidence that plenty of apps have enough leverage to successfully extort the user.
e12e 3y ago
Is that? https://github.com/NeoApplications/Neo-Store https://github.com/NeoApplications/Neo-Store https://f-droid.org/packages/com.machiav3lli.fdroid/ https://f-droid.org/packages/com.machiav3lli.fdroid/
just_testing 3y ago
I just added Neo Store to my boox device. Thanks so much! It is great! If you have any other recommendations, I'd gladly hear them.
- mcny 3y ago
  > I just added Neo Store to my boox device. Thanks so much! It is great! Glad to be of service. If you haven't tried it yet, please give KOReader a try https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.koreader.launcher.fdroid/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.koreader.launcher.fdroid... (sorry if you knew this already)

by mcny 3y ago

tweetle_beetle 3y ago

If you are in the market for a current state of the art e-ink phone, would having to do a few taps a month genuinely stop you buying this model? Seems like a very minor inconvenience for someone who values an esoteric technology combination.

ranger_danger 3y ago
> state of the art > android 11
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  The e-ink part can be state of the art even if the rest of the phone isn't
  - fsflover 3y ago
    Until you stop receiving updates.

szszrk 3y ago

Is that really an android 12 feature? F-droid Basic (almost the same app, same dev, same looks, without fancy direct sharing options; you can actually get it via old f-droid) can do that as well. They had to rewrite their implementation of how apps are installed, it took a while. With that only first install of the app needs confirmation.

mcny 3y ago
Yes, previously on hacker news https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27218157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27218157 > Android 12 will let alternative app stores update apps automatically (xda-developers.com)
- dopa42365 3y ago
  With user permission (allow installation from unknown sources or something), that must've been possible for a decade or so already. Is this change just whitelisting a bunch of widely used app stores by default (especially in China)?
  - mcny 3y ago
    > With user permission (allow installation from unknown sources or something), that must've been possible for a decade or so already. > Is this change just whitelisting a bunch of widely used app stores by default (especially in China)? I am not an Android developer so this is just my understanding and could be wrong. No, this is not about installing new applications. This is about allowing updates for apps already installed with user permission. All usual caveats apply. Update must be signed with the same key (it is an actual update, not an uninstall old + install new), yada yada
e12e 3y ago
Thanks for the mention of f-droid basic - looks like what I need to have sane updates - without switching to neo store: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.fdroid.basic/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.fdroid.basic/ https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient

starky 3y ago

If you look into other Android E-ink devices they all run Android 11. I can't find where I saw it now, but I looked into it when I bought a Onyx Boox device and it apparently had something to do with the driver blobs for the screen not supporting Android 12 and higher.

user_7832 3y ago
Android 12 iirc changed a lot of things and removed some features too. Android 9 & 12 are particularly "notorious" in this regard, I still have my Pixel 5 on A11 as a result. (Accessing all "files"/killing 3rd party file managers is one of the things A12 changed, for example.)
- paulmd 3y ago
  Unfortunately there was a very good reason for making this change: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/more-than-1000-android-apps-harvest-your-data-even-after-you-deny-permissions/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/more-than-1000-android-apps... There is (of course) always a bunch of hardware that never gets updated when some big shift comes around... but there is also stuff that never gets updated because it was doing something it wasn't supposed to be. You can't really enforce permissions in the absence of good sandboxing. And you can't really enforce permission without app review either, for a variety of social reasons (network effect, breaking unrelated functionality or outright refusing to work unless you give them location permissions, whatever). Which is the problem with the "just allow sideloading, bing bong so simple" crowd's argument, there already is ample evidence that plenty of apps have enough leverage to successfully extort the user.

e12e 3y ago

Is that? https://github.com/NeoApplications/Neo-Store https://github.com/NeoApplications/Neo-Store https://f-droid.org/packages/com.machiav3lli.fdroid/ https://f-droid.org/packages/com.machiav3lli.fdroid/

just_testing 3y ago

I just added Neo Store to my boox device. Thanks so much! It is great! If you have any other recommendations, I'd gladly hear them.

mcny 3y ago
> I just added Neo Store to my boox device. Thanks so much! It is great! Glad to be of service. If you haven't tried it yet, please give KOReader a try https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.koreader.launcher.fdroid/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.koreader.launcher.fdroid... (sorry if you knew this already)