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We know enough about Amelia Earhart at this point that we really should spend more time on other woman flight pioneers, and there are many that deserve to be re

We know enough about Amelia Earhart at this point that we really should spend more time on other woman flight pioneers, and there are many that deserve to be remembered. - Earhart was a bad pilot and was considered dangerously incompetent by some who worked with her - She didn't understand how her equipment worked, and would fail to learn how to operate the equipment even after incidents that should have made her take the time to learn - In many of her 'firsts' she was little more than an observer, with her mechanic or others flying the plane while she rode along - She had a super wealthy husband who owned media companies, and he would greatly amplify her supposed achievements. This, more than any other fact about her, is why she is so well remembered.

johnohara 3y ago
we really should spend more time on other woman flight pioneers Starting with Jackie Cochran. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_Cochran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_Cochran * Encouraged by then-Major Chuck Yeager, with whom Cochran shared a lifelong friendship, on May 18, 1953, at Rogers Dry Lake, California, Cochran flew the Sabre 3 at an average speed of 652.337 mph. During the course of this run the Sabre went supersonic, and Cochran became the first woman to break the sound barrier.* Per her wikipedia page: "During her supersonic run, Yeager flew right on her wing." Analogs of each other. Yeager said as much in his autobiography.
- rpmisms 3y ago
  She was an amazingly competent firecracker, two traits that rarely go together and produce greatness when they do.
- mgarfias 3y ago
  Jackie is the first person I thought of too.
- ThinkingGuy 3y ago
  Also notable: Bessie Coleman, who received her pilot's license a year before Earhart. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessie_Coleman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessie_Coleman
  - satiated_grue 3y ago
    And Coleman had to leave the US and go to France to get her license, because she was an African-American woman and no US school would teach her. She took French classes to send applications to the flight schools.
EdwardDiego 3y ago
Our country's most famous aviator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Batten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Batten
rpmisms 3y ago
Jackie Cochran and the Night Witches should be placed higher than her, in my personal opinion.
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  Amelia was quite the daredevil though! Fame is not always for the noble reasons.
- HunterWare 3y ago
  The Night Witches were fascinating to read about, thanks! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches http://dupuisww2.weebly.com/wasp-and-night-witches.html http://dupuisww2.weebly.com/wasp-and-night-witches.html
  - rpmisms 3y ago
    The Sabaton song about them is absolutely excellent, too.
bitwize 3y ago
Pancho Barnes has entered the chat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Barnes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Barnes
echelon 3y ago
The videos (!!) of Gladys Ingle changing tires on flying planes are incredible [1, 2]. It's almost hard to believe these are real. She was the fourth woman to earn a pilot's license. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladys_Ingle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladys_Ingle (see videos) [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW98Ji6hHmY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW98Ji6hHmY (colorized, restored)
- FergusArgyll 3y ago
  My palms are sweaty
- ralfd 3y ago
  > One of her most daring stunts was to stand on the wing of an aircraft while it "looped the loop". Uff! I hope this picture opens: https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidSjG-Bc7ZorQZ1-p7NVnpEPONTQxJOiFqdogZjJcChhyRk57QPSgKmTTEcrUwV1hpHODcPxoNNCTNhpuy9O3wDfB_eFZJ0MG5Vihe_6_5i1USKqGDyDpTdH4Z7QfJXdbWXWY7_7RPXDVBzmokytgetFh8qkUKl4cUWr5bGdCfw2pfU3T5vKs-yjT42pA/s1600/wing-walkers-6.jpg https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi... "Lillian Boyer hanging from right wing boom using right hand, circa 1920s" Reminds me of the influencer skyscraper climbing videos on YT. I guess it makes sense that people always loved outlandish thrills?
- jacquesm 3y ago
  That video has my heartrate up to something very unhealthy. That is absolutely incredible.
- doodlebugging 3y ago
  Damn! What women have had to do over the years to prove their manhood. Would you look at the balls on that gal!
mrintegrity 3y ago
Would love to read some sources for what you say, most info I have read about her don't say anything about her supposed incompetence.
- ksherlock 3y ago
  On the flight from Brazil to Senegal, Eahart ignored navigator Fred Noonan's course correction and they landed in Saint Louis instead of Dakar, which is 150 miles off. Well, Africa is a big continent but 150 miles is a big deal when you're island hopping in the pacific.
FergusArgyll 3y ago
I highly recommend West with the night[0] by Beryl Markham about a bush pilot in africa, super entertaining and the book is beyond well written. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_with_the_Night https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_with_the_Night
- ghaff 3y ago
  It's probably generally accepted that she almost certainly had a lot of help writing the book but it's still almost certainly the best of the growing up in the highlands on Kenya memoirs.
michaelsbradley 3y ago
Sources?
MrBuddyCasino 3y ago
> She had a super wealthy husband who owned media companies, and he would greatly amplify her supposed achievements. This, more than any other fact about her, is why she is so well remembered This applies to many historical figures whose names are widely known. Such stories are often carefully planned beforehand and then widely circulated, usually with political activism as the motivating force.
- cloudbonsai 3y ago
  > This applies to many historical figures whose names are widely known. ... such as?
hattmall 3y ago
Did any of the others go missing without a trace for multiple decades? I'm pretty sure that's the reason she is so remembered. It's the only thing I know about her at all.
- ltbarcly3 3y ago
  She crashed into the middle of the pacific. The whole 'missing' thing is just more media attention, she is just dead.
tivert 3y ago
> Earhart was a bad pilot and was considered dangerously incompetent by some who worked with her Do you have sources for that and your other claims about her flying ability? I'd like to read more.
giantg2 3y ago
Sounds very similar to Sally Ride. Many people who worked with her had complaints about her level of professionalism and behavior. Many believe she was chosen to be the first because her name went well with PR. And this was not a sexism thing - many of the people with legitimate complaints spoke highly of other female astronauts, like Judy Resnik (and history does not cover the other 5 like it does Sally Ride).
sho_hn 3y ago
I think the framing here is somewhat important. Your post can make it seem as if Earhart was someone who over-exaggerated her own achievements, however from what I remember, she was generally quite honest and up-front about the limits and weaknesses of her piloting skills. She frequently described her landings as poor, and also said that learning to fly was a long, drawn-out process for her. The image she cultivated was one of a gutsy risk-taker who doesn't take no for an answer, not as a master pilot. She is remembered for her attitude and how it relates to gender norms in the broader context, and I would still say, rightfully so. > In many of her 'firsts' she was little more than an observer, with her mechanic or others flying the plane while she rode along I can't quite comment on the "many" part, but again, it's something she was pretty honest about when it happened, to my knowledge. E.g. on the (initial) transatlantic flight, her words: "Stultz did all the flying—had to. I was just baggage, like a sack of potatoes."
- ltbarcly3 3y ago
  So you're saying we should give ber credit and pay attention to her because she admitted she doesn't deserve credit or attention? What? My point is that there are many legitimate woman flight pioneers wbo weren't gifted an oversized (and basically bogus) reputation by virtue of being part of the gilded social class.
  - sho_hn 3y ago
    I'm suggesting that it's fine to pay attention to Earhart for other reasons, including the particulars of her media phenomenon, the audience appetite for it, and so on. And I don't think it's OK to incept a sort of unqualified counter-meme of "look here, a woman with fake achievements". HN being curious about the particulars of her - factually - famous disappearance makes just as much sense as the once-a-year HN discussion of the Dyatlov Pass incident. I do agree there's many other aviators worth talking about.
    - ltbarcly3 3y ago
      > And I don't think it's OK to incept a sort of unqualified counter-meme of "look here, a woman with fake achievements". To her credit, she was very open about how little she had done and the fact that she was little more than an observer who was present (at least in some of her most noted stunts). She does have significant achievements as well, but these are greatly overstated. She was poor and ungifted pilot (by her own account) that happened to have the fortune to allow her to be idle and spend a lot of money to keep trying to become an adequate pilot (she required far more training than others by her own account), and who ended up getting herself and others killed in a stunt designed entirely to produce media attention. You seem to want to frame this as an attempt to attack women. It is not. This is about class. The women who were great pilots, and who demonstrated that women can achieve and even out achieve top men are passed over again and again to pay even more attention to Earhart. The counter meme is: Look, a person from the top social class with some real and some dubious achievements who completely eclipses contemporaries who were far more impressive (but less rich).
aleph_minus_one 3y ago
> we really should spend more time on other woman flight pioneers Like Beate Uhse (actually: Beate Uhse-Rotermund), who is much more well-known for the sex shop empire that she built than for her acrobatic flight skills: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_Uhse-Rotermund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_Uhse-Rotermund

johnohara 3y ago

we really should spend more time on other woman flight pioneers Starting with Jackie Cochran. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_Cochran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_Cochran * Encouraged by then-Major Chuck Yeager, with whom Cochran shared a lifelong friendship, on May 18, 1953, at Rogers Dry Lake, California, Cochran flew the Sabre 3 at an average speed of 652.337 mph. During the course of this run the Sabre went supersonic, and Cochran became the first woman to break the sound barrier.* Per her wikipedia page: "During her supersonic run, Yeager flew right on her wing." Analogs of each other. Yeager said as much in his autobiography.

rpmisms 3y ago
She was an amazingly competent firecracker, two traits that rarely go together and produce greatness when they do.
mgarfias 3y ago
Jackie is the first person I thought of too.
ThinkingGuy 3y ago
Also notable: Bessie Coleman, who received her pilot's license a year before Earhart. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessie_Coleman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessie_Coleman
- satiated_grue 3y ago
  And Coleman had to leave the US and go to France to get her license, because she was an African-American woman and no US school would teach her. She took French classes to send applications to the flight schools.

EdwardDiego 3y ago

Our country's most famous aviator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Batten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Batten

rpmisms 3y ago

Jackie Cochran and the Night Witches should be placed higher than her, in my personal opinion.

actionfromafar 3y ago
Amelia was quite the daredevil though! Fame is not always for the noble reasons.
HunterWare 3y ago
The Night Witches were fascinating to read about, thanks! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches http://dupuisww2.weebly.com/wasp-and-night-witches.html http://dupuisww2.weebly.com/wasp-and-night-witches.html
- rpmisms 3y ago
  The Sabaton song about them is absolutely excellent, too.

bitwize 3y ago

Pancho Barnes has entered the chat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Barnes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Barnes

echelon 3y ago

The videos (!!) of Gladys Ingle changing tires on flying planes are incredible [1, 2]. It's almost hard to believe these are real. She was the fourth woman to earn a pilot's license. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladys_Ingle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladys_Ingle (see videos) [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW98Ji6hHmY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW98Ji6hHmY (colorized, restored)

FergusArgyll 3y ago
My palms are sweaty
ralfd 3y ago
> One of her most daring stunts was to stand on the wing of an aircraft while it "looped the loop". Uff! I hope this picture opens: https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidSjG-Bc7ZorQZ1-p7NVnpEPONTQxJOiFqdogZjJcChhyRk57QPSgKmTTEcrUwV1hpHODcPxoNNCTNhpuy9O3wDfB_eFZJ0MG5Vihe_6_5i1USKqGDyDpTdH4Z7QfJXdbWXWY7_7RPXDVBzmokytgetFh8qkUKl4cUWr5bGdCfw2pfU3T5vKs-yjT42pA/s1600/wing-walkers-6.jpg https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi... "Lillian Boyer hanging from right wing boom using right hand, circa 1920s" Reminds me of the influencer skyscraper climbing videos on YT. I guess it makes sense that people always loved outlandish thrills?
jacquesm 3y ago
That video has my heartrate up to something very unhealthy. That is absolutely incredible.
doodlebugging 3y ago
Damn! What women have had to do over the years to prove their manhood. Would you look at the balls on that gal!

mrintegrity 3y ago

Would love to read some sources for what you say, most info I have read about her don't say anything about her supposed incompetence.

ksherlock 3y ago
On the flight from Brazil to Senegal, Eahart ignored navigator Fred Noonan's course correction and they landed in Saint Louis instead of Dakar, which is 150 miles off. Well, Africa is a big continent but 150 miles is a big deal when you're island hopping in the pacific.

FergusArgyll 3y ago

I highly recommend West with the night[0] by Beryl Markham about a bush pilot in africa, super entertaining and the book is beyond well written. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_with_the_Night https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_with_the_Night

ghaff 3y ago
It's probably generally accepted that she almost certainly had a lot of help writing the book but it's still almost certainly the best of the growing up in the highlands on Kenya memoirs.

michaelsbradley 3y ago

Sources?

MrBuddyCasino 3y ago

> She had a super wealthy husband who owned media companies, and he would greatly amplify her supposed achievements. This, more than any other fact about her, is why she is so well remembered This applies to many historical figures whose names are widely known. Such stories are often carefully planned beforehand and then widely circulated, usually with political activism as the motivating force.

cloudbonsai 3y ago
> This applies to many historical figures whose names are widely known. ... such as?

hattmall 3y ago

Did any of the others go missing without a trace for multiple decades? I'm pretty sure that's the reason she is so remembered. It's the only thing I know about her at all.

ltbarcly3 3y ago
She crashed into the middle of the pacific. The whole 'missing' thing is just more media attention, she is just dead.

tivert 3y ago

> Earhart was a bad pilot and was considered dangerously incompetent by some who worked with her Do you have sources for that and your other claims about her flying ability? I'd like to read more.

giantg2 3y ago

Sounds very similar to Sally Ride. Many people who worked with her had complaints about her level of professionalism and behavior. Many believe she was chosen to be the first because her name went well with PR. And this was not a sexism thing - many of the people with legitimate complaints spoke highly of other female astronauts, like Judy Resnik (and history does not cover the other 5 like it does Sally Ride).

sho_hn 3y ago

I think the framing here is somewhat important. Your post can make it seem as if Earhart was someone who over-exaggerated her own achievements, however from what I remember, she was generally quite honest and up-front about the limits and weaknesses of her piloting skills. She frequently described her landings as poor, and also said that learning to fly was a long, drawn-out process for her. The image she cultivated was one of a gutsy risk-taker who doesn't take no for an answer, not as a master pilot. She is remembered for her attitude and how it relates to gender norms in the broader context, and I would still say, rightfully so. > In many of her 'firsts' she was little more than an observer, with her mechanic or others flying the plane while she rode along I can't quite comment on the "many" part, but again, it's something she was pretty honest about when it happened, to my knowledge. E.g. on the (initial) transatlantic flight, her words: "Stultz did all the flying—had to. I was just baggage, like a sack of potatoes."

ltbarcly3 3y ago
So you're saying we should give ber credit and pay attention to her because she admitted she doesn't deserve credit or attention? What? My point is that there are many legitimate woman flight pioneers wbo weren't gifted an oversized (and basically bogus) reputation by virtue of being part of the gilded social class.
- sho_hn 3y ago
  I'm suggesting that it's fine to pay attention to Earhart for other reasons, including the particulars of her media phenomenon, the audience appetite for it, and so on. And I don't think it's OK to incept a sort of unqualified counter-meme of "look here, a woman with fake achievements". HN being curious about the particulars of her - factually - famous disappearance makes just as much sense as the once-a-year HN discussion of the Dyatlov Pass incident. I do agree there's many other aviators worth talking about.
  - ltbarcly3 3y ago
    > And I don't think it's OK to incept a sort of unqualified counter-meme of "look here, a woman with fake achievements". To her credit, she was very open about how little she had done and the fact that she was little more than an observer who was present (at least in some of her most noted stunts). She does have significant achievements as well, but these are greatly overstated. She was poor and ungifted pilot (by her own account) that happened to have the fortune to allow her to be idle and spend a lot of money to keep trying to become an adequate pilot (she required far more training than others by her own account), and who ended up getting herself and others killed in a stunt designed entirely to produce media attention. You seem to want to frame this as an attempt to attack women. It is not. This is about class. The women who were great pilots, and who demonstrated that women can achieve and even out achieve top men are passed over again and again to pay even more attention to Earhart. The counter meme is: Look, a person from the top social class with some real and some dubious achievements who completely eclipses contemporaries who were far more impressive (but less rich).

aleph_minus_one 3y ago

> we really should spend more time on other woman flight pioneers Like Beate Uhse (actually: Beate Uhse-Rotermund), who is much more well-known for the sex shop empire that she built than for her acrobatic flight skills: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_Uhse-Rotermund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_Uhse-Rotermund