4 ms·

> What's crazy is that they have all this information and have already computed how much tax I owe This is not really accurate. If you're a typical employee, I

> What's crazy is that they have all this information and have already computed how much tax I owe This is not really accurate. If you're a typical employee, IRS has a pretty good idea of your income, which is just one of the many factors that goes into calculating your tax. In particular, the IRS doesn't independently know most of the things that could cause you to get tax deductions, like whether you got married since last year, or you moved out of your parents' house and started living on your own, or you're taking care of a child, or you had self-employment expenses, or you bought textbooks for your college classes, or you donated to charity, or you paid expensive medical bills, etc.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
They also don’t know about the adjusted cost basis for those RSUs sold to pay for the ordinary income tax of an RSU grant.
cornstalks 3y ago
To be fair, I said "how much tax I owe," not how much tax you (or others) owe. I don't have any creative deductions. And I expect many others only have one or two "interesting" deductions to add. I haven't actually measured this but I honestly expect >95% of what I enter into my tax return is information they already have.
- buffington 3y ago
  Do they know how much you'll spend on sales tax for a given tax year? How much you'll pay out of pocket for health expenses? Do you? These are not "interesting", but nearly everyone has 'em, and the IRS cannot know, without bending space time, how much you'll owe because of those deductions (assuming an itemized deduction, though they're still in play either way because they can help tip the balance between taking a standard or itemized deductions).
  - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
    > assuming an itemized deduction Only 13% of all US federal tax filings each year itemize deductions. That means it would help the vast majority of filers and not harm the rest in any way whatsoever. Weird thing to be against if someone isn't misanthropic.
    - buffington 3y ago
      I was pointing out to the GP that the IRS cannot know the final amount due because of the potential for some very common types of deductions. I wasn't disagreeing with the idea of pre-filling tax return data.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    But just imagine if your starting point for your taxes was "here's 95% of your information already filled out, got anything else to add?" Wouldn't that be even easier? Nobody is saying you can't itemize if you want, but for the vast majority of taxpayers the standard deduction is a larger deduction than itemizing and far lower risk of audit.
    - buffington 3y ago
      It'd be fantastic, and I agree. I never said otherwise. I was simply offering examples of "normal" deductions that can easily change what you owe, and how those deductions aren't as uncommon as the person I was commenting to would have you believe.
risfriend 3y ago
Exactly, then I should be able to see that my tax calculations include only my salary and I can fill in rest of the things to get additional deduction. Infact everyone would be able to see what IRS knows and what it doesn't and deductions taken into account etc. How is it not better?
BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
> the IRS doesn't independently know most of the things that could cause you to get tax deductions The vast majority of taxpayers take the standard deduction and do not itemize, so in real practical terms this is an extremely irrelevant straw man. (https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-standard-deduction#:~:text=The%20Urban%2DBrookings%20Tax%20Policy,itemizing%20their%20deductions%20in%202018 https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-standard-....) (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/taxes/2023/02/15/itemized-vs-standard-deduction-taxes/11252585002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/taxes/2023/02/15/itemiz...)

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

They also don’t know about the adjusted cost basis for those RSUs sold to pay for the ordinary income tax of an RSU grant.

cornstalks 3y ago

To be fair, I said "how much tax I owe," not how much tax you (or others) owe. I don't have any creative deductions. And I expect many others only have one or two "interesting" deductions to add. I haven't actually measured this but I honestly expect >95% of what I enter into my tax return is information they already have.

buffington 3y ago
Do they know how much you'll spend on sales tax for a given tax year? How much you'll pay out of pocket for health expenses? Do you? These are not "interesting", but nearly everyone has 'em, and the IRS cannot know, without bending space time, how much you'll owe because of those deductions (assuming an itemized deduction, though they're still in play either way because they can help tip the balance between taking a standard or itemized deductions).
- BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
  > assuming an itemized deduction Only 13% of all US federal tax filings each year itemize deductions. That means it would help the vast majority of filers and not harm the rest in any way whatsoever. Weird thing to be against if someone isn't misanthropic.
  - buffington 3y ago
    I was pointing out to the GP that the IRS cannot know the final amount due because of the potential for some very common types of deductions. I wasn't disagreeing with the idea of pre-filling tax return data.
- vel0city 3y ago
  But just imagine if your starting point for your taxes was "here's 95% of your information already filled out, got anything else to add?" Wouldn't that be even easier? Nobody is saying you can't itemize if you want, but for the vast majority of taxpayers the standard deduction is a larger deduction than itemizing and far lower risk of audit.
  - buffington 3y ago
    It'd be fantastic, and I agree. I never said otherwise. I was simply offering examples of "normal" deductions that can easily change what you owe, and how those deductions aren't as uncommon as the person I was commenting to would have you believe.

risfriend 3y ago

Exactly, then I should be able to see that my tax calculations include only my salary and I can fill in rest of the things to get additional deduction. Infact everyone would be able to see what IRS knows and what it doesn't and deductions taken into account etc. How is it not better?

BugsJustFindMe 3y ago

> the IRS doesn't independently know most of the things that could cause you to get tax deductions The vast majority of taxpayers take the standard deduction and do not itemize, so in real practical terms this is an extremely irrelevant straw man. (https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-standard-deduction#:~:text=The%20Urban%2DBrookings%20Tax%20Policy,itemizing%20their%20deductions%20in%202018 https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-standard-....) (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/taxes/2023/02/15/itemized-vs-standard-deduction-taxes/11252585002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/taxes/2023/02/15/itemiz...)