5 ms·

Once I went on vacation to a tropical island. I went to a grocery store on the island. I didn't bring a bag because I was a doofus who had not previously lived

Once I went on vacation to a tropical island. I went to a grocery store on the island. I didn't bring a bag because I was a doofus who had not previously lived or traveled to a tropical island. There were no plastic bags. There were no paper bags. There was no option to pay money to get a reusable grocery bag like we see in the US. If you were a doofus like me who didn't bring some kind of bag, you only had two options. One was to miraculously carry your stuff home without bags. The other was to use the cardboard boxes that used to contain produce, if there were any left over. We carried our groceries back to the hotel in a cardboard box that previously contained fruit. It was a minor hassle in the moment, but I also realized that's how it should be everywhere. There are probably already enough bags in the world for all the carrying that humans need to do. Of course bags wear out, so we need to keep producing some amount of bags, but not many. Most stores should simply not have any kind of bag whatsoever. If you don't bring something of your own, you should be mostly SoL.

dharmab 3y ago
These days I keep a bin in my trunk, transfer my groceries from the cart into the bin, and then I carry the entire bin into my kitchen.
gruez 3y ago
>Most stores should simply not have any kind of bag whatsoever. If you don't bring something of your own, you should be mostly SoL. Yeah, because driving back to your house to get a bag and then driving back is so much better for the environment than a using a few 0.1mm thin bags.
- bmicraft 3y ago
  If you're there by car you can't convince me you actually *need* bags.
- drekk 3y ago
  People on tropical islands don't really use cars. I don't think most of the readers on HN understand the level of sacrifice required from everyone to avoid the worst of what's coming. It's going to require a lot more from everyone than using reusable bags while shopping or avoiding straws/using metal ones. I agree these environmental laws are simply green washing. But if people think these generate too much resentment they're wholly unprepared for what the moment requires. Like not eating meat with every single meal every single day of the week. Not having two cars per family regardless of whether they're ICE or not. Eliminating short-haul flights and restricting international travel. US consumers are used to overconsuming. Correcting for that will feel like a punishment to most. I don't see an alternative besides telling people to treat it like a world war. "Victory gardens" and all.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >I don't think most of the readers on HN understand the level of sacrifice required from everyone to avoid the worst of what's coming. It's going to require a lot more from everyone than using reusable bags while shopping or avoiding straws/using metal ones. To be frank, I don't think we will avoid the worst of what's coming. Because a lot of it isn't in control of consumers but from business emissions. e.g. wouldn't mind the ability to stop using my car tomorrow if I had reliable bus schedules that weren't separated by an hour per stop, but I have no faith that the transportation for my city will ever fix that in a timely matter. There's also negative inventive from stuff like ride-shares to want to fix that. WFH is another way to cut down on emissions to compute but instead companies are hunkering back down because they gotta justify their sunk cost on buildings. That's 2 of some dozen problems that could prevent the worst but whose cards aren't completely in the hands of the person. It just feels so hopeless.
    - willsmith72 3y ago
      that's not business emissions though, that's a government problem change in government comes from people. capable government looks at real societal problems and shapes the future of the state to address them. of course public transport is a huge one, especially in the US
    - mr_toad 3y ago
      > Because a lot of it isn't in control of consumers but from business emissions. Businesses ultimately only exist to provide to consumers. Even those that sell directly to businesses of governments wouldn’t exist without consumers. Consumers are either going to have to jump now or fall later.
  - deleted 3y ago
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  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - inkyoto 3y ago
    > People on tropical islands don't really use cars. They do and do so extensively in some places. I have been to Wallis and Futuna islands, two very small islands in the Pacific being French overseas territories where the transportation around each island is exclusively by car and locals drive around all the time. They would only walk to the nearest fale and drive at all other times. Petrol was expensive (that was around EUR 2.5 a litre approximately a decade ago) but the French government nearly entirely subsidises it due to the two islands' economies being too small to cover extra costs.
- imp0cat 3y ago
  Keep some large blue Ikea bags in your car instead.
  - Libcat99 3y ago
    I have half a dozen of these and have never needed anything else. Bonus: way easier to get everything inside at home.
- latentcall 3y ago
  Good point. This is why I keep reusable bags in my car for that exact scenario. It’s helped me a ton, you should try it.
throwitaway222 3y ago
There are stores in the us that do the cardboard box method
- kibwen 3y ago
  Yes, Aldi's does this.
kitten_mittens_ 3y ago
When the pandemic hit in the US, and people were hoarding a bit, I had several times where I had to carry groceries home in a fruit box.
Wowfunhappy 3y ago
I would be fine with this outcome (even as someone who would find it personally annoying), but it's not the reality we live in today. You'd have to actually mandate this by law. The half measures we currently have are the worst of both worlds. They inconvenience people and increase fossil fuel emissions.
beej71 3y ago
Our Grocery Outlet does this, as does CostCo.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  Costco seems to have perfected it by rarely having enough boxes at the cash, so forward-thinking customers do their job for them by grabbing boxes from the product shelves.
_ph_ 3y ago
I think selling fully reusable cloth bags would be the right thing to do, but otherwise I agree that stores shouldn't offer single-use plastic bags any more.
- Nition 3y ago
  In NZ after the single-use plastic bag ban some people argued against only having high quality reusable bags available by saying "but I keep forgetting my reusable bags, and I so I keep having to buy more! Now I have 15 cloth bags at home - this is far more wasteful than when we had single-use plastic bags." But those complaints came in the first few weeks after the ban, and they dried up soon enough. Everyone learns eventually that they need to take their bags with them - at least I hope nobody is sitting at home now, five years after the ban, with 1000 reusable cloth bags. P.S. I've found jute bags the best value for money. They seem to really last forever whereas the thin cloth type start wearing out after a while.
  - interestica 3y ago
    In Canada this is an issue. The 'reusable' bags aren't cloth -- they're still a weave made from plastic. And it can be tied to culture and availability. It's much easier to 'remember' your bags if you're making a dedicated trip to the grocery store from home. But, if you want to spontaneously stop in after work, for example, you would have had to remembered a bag before you left home or had one on you at all times. We should be encouraging the type of city design that allows for (and encourages!) this type of spontaneous shopping. We should figure out the bagging system to match. Recyclable/compostable paper bags seem like a good thing.
    - danhor 3y ago
      All of my of my on-the-go shopping without thinking about it beforehand have much smaller quantities than the one I specifically think about (especially because in Germany I usually take some bottles with me to deposit at the store), for that a smaller, foldable bag in my backpack has served me very well.
  - 3y ago

dharmab 3y ago

These days I keep a bin in my trunk, transfer my groceries from the cart into the bin, and then I carry the entire bin into my kitchen.

gruez 3y ago

>Most stores should simply not have any kind of bag whatsoever. If you don't bring something of your own, you should be mostly SoL. Yeah, because driving back to your house to get a bag and then driving back is so much better for the environment than a using a few 0.1mm thin bags.

bmicraft 3y ago
If you're there by car you can't convince me you actually *need* bags.
drekk 3y ago
People on tropical islands don't really use cars. I don't think most of the readers on HN understand the level of sacrifice required from everyone to avoid the worst of what's coming. It's going to require a lot more from everyone than using reusable bags while shopping or avoiding straws/using metal ones. I agree these environmental laws are simply green washing. But if people think these generate too much resentment they're wholly unprepared for what the moment requires. Like not eating meat with every single meal every single day of the week. Not having two cars per family regardless of whether they're ICE or not. Eliminating short-haul flights and restricting international travel. US consumers are used to overconsuming. Correcting for that will feel like a punishment to most. I don't see an alternative besides telling people to treat it like a world war. "Victory gardens" and all.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >I don't think most of the readers on HN understand the level of sacrifice required from everyone to avoid the worst of what's coming. It's going to require a lot more from everyone than using reusable bags while shopping or avoiding straws/using metal ones. To be frank, I don't think we will avoid the worst of what's coming. Because a lot of it isn't in control of consumers but from business emissions. e.g. wouldn't mind the ability to stop using my car tomorrow if I had reliable bus schedules that weren't separated by an hour per stop, but I have no faith that the transportation for my city will ever fix that in a timely matter. There's also negative inventive from stuff like ride-shares to want to fix that. WFH is another way to cut down on emissions to compute but instead companies are hunkering back down because they gotta justify their sunk cost on buildings. That's 2 of some dozen problems that could prevent the worst but whose cards aren't completely in the hands of the person. It just feels so hopeless.
  - willsmith72 3y ago
    that's not business emissions though, that's a government problem change in government comes from people. capable government looks at real societal problems and shapes the future of the state to address them. of course public transport is a huge one, especially in the US
  - mr_toad 3y ago
    > Because a lot of it isn't in control of consumers but from business emissions. Businesses ultimately only exist to provide to consumers. Even those that sell directly to businesses of governments wouldn’t exist without consumers. Consumers are either going to have to jump now or fall later.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- inkyoto 3y ago
  > People on tropical islands don't really use cars. They do and do so extensively in some places. I have been to Wallis and Futuna islands, two very small islands in the Pacific being French overseas territories where the transportation around each island is exclusively by car and locals drive around all the time. They would only walk to the nearest fale and drive at all other times. Petrol was expensive (that was around EUR 2.5 a litre approximately a decade ago) but the French government nearly entirely subsidises it due to the two islands' economies being too small to cover extra costs.
imp0cat 3y ago
Keep some large blue Ikea bags in your car instead.
- Libcat99 3y ago
  I have half a dozen of these and have never needed anything else. Bonus: way easier to get everything inside at home.
latentcall 3y ago
Good point. This is why I keep reusable bags in my car for that exact scenario. It’s helped me a ton, you should try it.

throwitaway222 3y ago

There are stores in the us that do the cardboard box method

kibwen 3y ago
Yes, Aldi's does this.

kitten_mittens_ 3y ago

When the pandemic hit in the US, and people were hoarding a bit, I had several times where I had to carry groceries home in a fruit box.

Wowfunhappy 3y ago

I would be fine with this outcome (even as someone who would find it personally annoying), but it's not the reality we live in today. You'd have to actually mandate this by law. The half measures we currently have are the worst of both worlds. They inconvenience people and increase fossil fuel emissions.

beej71 3y ago

Our Grocery Outlet does this, as does CostCo.

Scoundreller 3y ago
Costco seems to have perfected it by rarely having enough boxes at the cash, so forward-thinking customers do their job for them by grabbing boxes from the product shelves.

_ph_ 3y ago

I think selling fully reusable cloth bags would be the right thing to do, but otherwise I agree that stores shouldn't offer single-use plastic bags any more.

Nition 3y ago
In NZ after the single-use plastic bag ban some people argued against only having high quality reusable bags available by saying "but I keep forgetting my reusable bags, and I so I keep having to buy more! Now I have 15 cloth bags at home - this is far more wasteful than when we had single-use plastic bags." But those complaints came in the first few weeks after the ban, and they dried up soon enough. Everyone learns eventually that they need to take their bags with them - at least I hope nobody is sitting at home now, five years after the ban, with 1000 reusable cloth bags. P.S. I've found jute bags the best value for money. They seem to really last forever whereas the thin cloth type start wearing out after a while.
- interestica 3y ago
  In Canada this is an issue. The 'reusable' bags aren't cloth -- they're still a weave made from plastic. And it can be tied to culture and availability. It's much easier to 'remember' your bags if you're making a dedicated trip to the grocery store from home. But, if you want to spontaneously stop in after work, for example, you would have had to remembered a bag before you left home or had one on you at all times. We should be encouraging the type of city design that allows for (and encourages!) this type of spontaneous shopping. We should figure out the bagging system to match. Recyclable/compostable paper bags seem like a good thing.
  - danhor 3y ago
    All of my of my on-the-go shopping without thinking about it beforehand have much smaller quantities than the one I specifically think about (especially because in Germany I usually take some bottles with me to deposit at the store), for that a smaller, foldable bag in my backpack has served me very well.
- 3y ago