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>Most people have probably experienced the frustration of weak Wi-Fi signals. Even getting a network to cover every corner of a fairly modest house can be a cha

>Most people have probably experienced the frustration of weak Wi-Fi signals. Even getting a network to cover every corner of a fairly modest house can be a challenge That's... not why your AP signal is weak. It's because of laws that limit your broadcast strength.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
sidewndr46 3y ago
From my experience with in-home WiFi most access points can cover a house just fine. The issue is even in the suburbs, you have dozens of other signals on the same frequency. So your signal to noise ratio is awful, leading to it being unusable in the spots farthest from the access point.
- boringuser2 3y ago
  I've managed to mostly mitigate this problem using a ruckus r710, which competes expertly for air space. Saturates fully. 2.4ghz is still too crowded in urban environments, but every smart device on it has enough bandwidth to function. I've given up trying to improve this after spending a decent amount of time and money.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    I use the DFS bands when I can in the US
- hinkley 3y ago
  Apartments are also no fun. Not just the people on your floor and the neighboring ones, but the next apartments as well.
hinkley 3y ago
If memory serves the early wrt54g replacement firmwares could go to around 2x the legal broadcast limit. I assume they still can. Unlikely to be caught doing it, unless you live in the urban core. And for an apartment, a directional antenna likely would have sufficed for many uses, prior to MiMo ubiquity.
crote 3y ago
Rather the opposite, actually. The allowed broadcast strength in the 2.4GHz band is so high that in a (sub)urban environment you won't just receive your own network, but also those of literally a dozen neighbors around you - and there are plenty of areas in your house where you can receive your neighbor's network better than your own so you end up in a shouting match. And of course many people "solve" their poor wifi connection by adding a repeater or increasing the transmission power, which fixes the symptoms for them but makes the overall problem worse for everyone around them. 5Ghz has essentially solved the problem, simply because the signal gets killed real quick by things like walls - especially exterior ones. Your signal won't make it much beyond your house so you don't get in a shouting match with your neighbors, and adding a repeater (mostly) does what you'd expect it to.
- ssl-3 3y ago
  You touched on a couple of things, but I think that the main thing you're describing here is attenuation. 5GHz transmission is much more readily-attenuated by things like walls and trees than 2.4Ghz is, and that helps allow it to actually-work in denser environments. But it isn't so much an issue of power, I don't think: If we erased all of the existing 2.4GHz devices from the world and replaced them with devices that only transmitted 1/10th of the previous power (a 10dB reduction), then: We'd still have to contend with our neighbor's neighbors' 2.4GHz background noise. Like in a room where everyone is shouting all at once: You can't understand what the guy across the room is shouting because of all of the noise. But we still have the same problem in a room where everyone is carefully talking quietly all at once: You still can't understand the guy across the room because of all of the noise. The problem hasn't changed. (Sure, the noise is reduced, but the desired signal is also reduced by the same magnitude) Signal-to-noise ratio doesn't necessarily scale with overall amplitude.
  - crote 3y ago
    It's not an issue of SNR. Wifi isn't allowed to transmit when it detects another station is already transmitting - it has to wait for clean air. By reducing everyone's power level the competing transmitter disappears into the noise floor, freeing up air for you to transmit on. A weak-ish signal which can transmit 100% of of the time is better than a strong signal which can only transmit 5% of the time. In theory you could indeed all shout at once, but that breaks down when your conversation partner is way closer to the other shouter - no matter how loud you shout, your message will always be overpowered and will only get through when you wait until the other shouter is silent. That's why wifi chooses to listen first.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

sidewndr46 3y ago

From my experience with in-home WiFi most access points can cover a house just fine. The issue is even in the suburbs, you have dozens of other signals on the same frequency. So your signal to noise ratio is awful, leading to it being unusable in the spots farthest from the access point.

boringuser2 3y ago
I've managed to mostly mitigate this problem using a ruckus r710, which competes expertly for air space. Saturates fully. 2.4ghz is still too crowded in urban environments, but every smart device on it has enough bandwidth to function. I've given up trying to improve this after spending a decent amount of time and money.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  I use the DFS bands when I can in the US
hinkley 3y ago
Apartments are also no fun. Not just the people on your floor and the neighboring ones, but the next apartments as well.

hinkley 3y ago

If memory serves the early wrt54g replacement firmwares could go to around 2x the legal broadcast limit. I assume they still can. Unlikely to be caught doing it, unless you live in the urban core. And for an apartment, a directional antenna likely would have sufficed for many uses, prior to MiMo ubiquity.

crote 3y ago

Rather the opposite, actually. The allowed broadcast strength in the 2.4GHz band is so high that in a (sub)urban environment you won't just receive your own network, but also those of literally a dozen neighbors around you - and there are plenty of areas in your house where you can receive your neighbor's network better than your own so you end up in a shouting match. And of course many people "solve" their poor wifi connection by adding a repeater or increasing the transmission power, which fixes the symptoms for them but makes the overall problem worse for everyone around them. 5Ghz has essentially solved the problem, simply because the signal gets killed real quick by things like walls - especially exterior ones. Your signal won't make it much beyond your house so you don't get in a shouting match with your neighbors, and adding a repeater (mostly) does what you'd expect it to.

ssl-3 3y ago
You touched on a couple of things, but I think that the main thing you're describing here is attenuation. 5GHz transmission is much more readily-attenuated by things like walls and trees than 2.4Ghz is, and that helps allow it to actually-work in denser environments. But it isn't so much an issue of power, I don't think: If we erased all of the existing 2.4GHz devices from the world and replaced them with devices that only transmitted 1/10th of the previous power (a 10dB reduction), then: We'd still have to contend with our neighbor's neighbors' 2.4GHz background noise. Like in a room where everyone is shouting all at once: You can't understand what the guy across the room is shouting because of all of the noise. But we still have the same problem in a room where everyone is carefully talking quietly all at once: You still can't understand the guy across the room because of all of the noise. The problem hasn't changed. (Sure, the noise is reduced, but the desired signal is also reduced by the same magnitude) Signal-to-noise ratio doesn't necessarily scale with overall amplitude.
- crote 3y ago
  It's not an issue of SNR. Wifi isn't allowed to transmit when it detects another station is already transmitting - it has to wait for clean air. By reducing everyone's power level the competing transmitter disappears into the noise floor, freeing up air for you to transmit on. A weak-ish signal which can transmit 100% of of the time is better than a strong signal which can only transmit 5% of the time. In theory you could indeed all shout at once, but that breaks down when your conversation partner is way closer to the other shouter - no matter how loud you shout, your message will always be overpowered and will only get through when you wait until the other shouter is silent. That's why wifi chooses to listen first.