5 ms·

1Mbps over 3km doesn't sound exactly impressive by itself. People have been doing multikilometer wifi links for ages now. Random paper reviewing some of them: h

by zokier 3y ago

1Mbps over 3km doesn't sound exactly impressive by itself. People have been doing multikilometer wifi links for ages now. Random paper reviewing some of them: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281644239_Outdoor_Long-range_WLANs_A_Lesson_for_IEEE_80211ah https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281644239_Outdoor_L... Select example: > Next, Paul et al. [62] reported on their observation of the WLAN link performance in open outdoor networks. The deault packet size was 1470 B for all reported measurement campaigns. They achieved a maximum range of 1800 m LOS at 148 Mbps with IEEE 802.11n links in outdoor locations for back-haul connection among WLAN APs. I'm sure there are things here making the actual tech impressive, presumably biggest thing being power consumption and size. But just saying that the demo is not doing much when they don't provide any details of the setup.

lxgr 3y ago
With what antenna type? IoT-like use cases often don't lend themselves towards the usage of highly-directional, large antennas and high-power transmitters.
- zokier 3y ago
  That's exactly the problem, this demo doesn't tell anything about antennas or power levels, so it's completely impossible to say if their thing is worth anything.
  - akira2501 3y ago
    This appears to be their development kit. https://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/MorseMicro_142024_MM6108_EKH01_ProductBrief_Final.pdf https://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/MorseMicro_142024_...
teleforce 3y ago
If you want an excellent reference using Wi-Fi for long distance coverage plese check this book, but it's a bit dated and out-of-print now: Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area Networks: https://www.ciscopress.com/store/deploying-license-free-wireless-wide-area-networks-9781587050695 https://www.ciscopress.com/store/deploying-license-free-wire... For long distance terrestrial wireless communication on sub GHz wireless frequency, now people normally use Low Power Wide Area Network (LPWAN) solutions like LoRa, SigFox or ELTRES, but SigFox has been out of business, and ELTRES being Sony mainly limited to Japan at the moment. That leaves majority of the LPWAN installation based on LoRa. LoRa however is not without its problem namely the spreading factor (SF) between 8 and 12 limitations, if you want to go further you really want to use the highest SF but the bandwidth goes down exponentially and instead of Kbps you have merely lowest bits/bytes speed transmission even with clear Line-of-Sight (LoS). We have tested LoRa transmission over the sea (island to mainland) and it even works for more than 20 km. That's OK if you have only IoT systems where the job is turning some remote switch or relay to be on or off. There is a real need for efficient low power higher bandwidth transmission (Mbps range not Kbps) and this how HaLow by IEEE as inside this post come into the picture, and another cellular based Reduced Capability (RedCap) standardized in 5G release 17 standard by competing organization 3GPP. These new standards has more higher bandwidth than the existing LoRa and existing 4G/5G standards for examples NB-IoT and LTE-M but the facts the latter standards use existing 4G/5G infrastructure is a big plus and the latest RedCap standard want to capitalize on that.
- josh2600 3y ago
  I just want to thank you for this excellent comment which I found to be very helpful in contextualizing this conversation. I am excited about any kind of new network topologies because the current state of US Broadband is abysmal. Foolishly, I am still hopeful that Artemis Networks will pull rank. We'll see.
crote 3y ago
The gamechanger is that they're doing it with basically a handheld tablet. Previous long-range WLAN deployments were pretty much limited to point-to-point fixed links using high-gain directional antennas. Being able to move around in arbitrary orientations opens up dozens of new use cases.
- cncovyvysi 3y ago
  Name 5.
  - crote 3y ago
    - Video Walkie Talkies - Drones - Weather stations - Sprinkler control - Smart driveway gates - Robot lawnmowers One particular application I'm interested in is tracking location data and athlete performance during rowing regattas. The course is over 2km long and over 150m wide, which makes it unsuitable for regular wifi without deploying a dozen specialized APs, and directional antennas are tricky due to all the movement involved. Being able to put a single omnidirectional antenna at the halfway point and having it Just Work would be a absolutely amazing.
cyberax 3y ago
> 1Mbps over 3km doesn't sound exactly impressive by itself. People have been doing multikilometer wifi links for ages now. It's _omnidirectional_. You don't need to point it.
- withinboredom 3y ago
  Regular wifi doesn't need to be pointed either, unless there is interference. It goes about 2-3km. source: had the only wifi point for hundreds of km in Afghanistan.
  - nullsmack 3y ago
    Line of Sight in a mostly empty area probably gets you a lot of range but even then I find 2-3km using "regular wifi" a little hard to swallow. 1.25-1.86 mile omnidirectionally is way too far unless you have some special thing going on like your router is high up, or using a high power (1w or more) transmission, or both.

by zokier 3y ago

lxgr 3y ago

With what antenna type? IoT-like use cases often don't lend themselves towards the usage of highly-directional, large antennas and high-power transmitters.

zokier 3y ago
That's exactly the problem, this demo doesn't tell anything about antennas or power levels, so it's completely impossible to say if their thing is worth anything.
- akira2501 3y ago
  This appears to be their development kit. https://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/MorseMicro_142024_MM6108_EKH01_ProductBrief_Final.pdf https://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/MorseMicro_142024_...

teleforce 3y ago

If you want an excellent reference using Wi-Fi for long distance coverage plese check this book, but it's a bit dated and out-of-print now: Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area Networks: https://www.ciscopress.com/store/deploying-license-free-wireless-wide-area-networks-9781587050695 https://www.ciscopress.com/store/deploying-license-free-wire... For long distance terrestrial wireless communication on sub GHz wireless frequency, now people normally use Low Power Wide Area Network (LPWAN) solutions like LoRa, SigFox or ELTRES, but SigFox has been out of business, and ELTRES being Sony mainly limited to Japan at the moment. That leaves majority of the LPWAN installation based on LoRa. LoRa however is not without its problem namely the spreading factor (SF) between 8 and 12 limitations, if you want to go further you really want to use the highest SF but the bandwidth goes down exponentially and instead of Kbps you have merely lowest bits/bytes speed transmission even with clear Line-of-Sight (LoS). We have tested LoRa transmission over the sea (island to mainland) and it even works for more than 20 km. That's OK if you have only IoT systems where the job is turning some remote switch or relay to be on or off. There is a real need for efficient low power higher bandwidth transmission (Mbps range not Kbps) and this how HaLow by IEEE as inside this post come into the picture, and another cellular based Reduced Capability (RedCap) standardized in 5G release 17 standard by competing organization 3GPP. These new standards has more higher bandwidth than the existing LoRa and existing 4G/5G standards for examples NB-IoT and LTE-M but the facts the latter standards use existing 4G/5G infrastructure is a big plus and the latest RedCap standard want to capitalize on that.

josh2600 3y ago
I just want to thank you for this excellent comment which I found to be very helpful in contextualizing this conversation. I am excited about any kind of new network topologies because the current state of US Broadband is abysmal. Foolishly, I am still hopeful that Artemis Networks will pull rank. We'll see.

crote 3y ago

The gamechanger is that they're doing it with basically a handheld tablet. Previous long-range WLAN deployments were pretty much limited to point-to-point fixed links using high-gain directional antennas. Being able to move around in arbitrary orientations opens up dozens of new use cases.

cncovyvysi 3y ago
Name 5.
- crote 3y ago
  - Video Walkie Talkies - Drones - Weather stations - Sprinkler control - Smart driveway gates - Robot lawnmowers One particular application I'm interested in is tracking location data and athlete performance during rowing regattas. The course is over 2km long and over 150m wide, which makes it unsuitable for regular wifi without deploying a dozen specialized APs, and directional antennas are tricky due to all the movement involved. Being able to put a single omnidirectional antenna at the halfway point and having it Just Work would be a absolutely amazing.

cyberax 3y ago

> 1Mbps over 3km doesn't sound exactly impressive by itself. People have been doing multikilometer wifi links for ages now. It's _omnidirectional_. You don't need to point it.

withinboredom 3y ago
Regular wifi doesn't need to be pointed either, unless there is interference. It goes about 2-3km. source: had the only wifi point for hundreds of km in Afghanistan.
- nullsmack 3y ago
  Line of Sight in a mostly empty area probably gets you a lot of range but even then I find 2-3km using "regular wifi" a little hard to swallow. 1.25-1.86 mile omnidirectionally is way too far unless you have some special thing going on like your router is high up, or using a high power (1w or more) transmission, or both.