4 ms·

Pretending to be a tourist is a good way to get deported usually in a lot of places.

NineStarPoint 3y ago
Is it? I know that legally they could deport you so its not a great idea, but how often does someone actually get deported for doing remote work while spending a few months in another country?
- nerdbert 3y ago
  Literally never. This topic is one of those things that draws resentful ruleboys out of the woodwork to preach about something they have no firsthand knowledge of because none exists.
  - alibarber 3y ago
    No, I think people are missing the wood for the trees here. The fact that these visas are becoming available means that governments are wising up to the fact that people have been working remotely on tourist visas and want in on it. They want to be able to charge for it, or set a limit on who can do it, or tax it. Now that these visas exist, and immigration officers know that, it’s only obvious that they’ll start to ask ‘tourists’ if they plan on working remotely or not. You can lie all you want, but if they find evidence (two laptops, notebooks, equipment) then good luck. What happened in the past is just that.
    - petronio 3y ago
      I think you're confusing their goal. It's not that they have a problem with people working remotely on tourist visas, it's that they want them to do it for longer as it brings economic benefit to the country. If they disliked the idea they wouldn't be creating new visas for the purpose, since that only makes it more prevalent and normalized.
  - Gunnerhead 3y ago
    Seriously, “ruleboys” is a good one or what I thought of as “hall pass monitor”. I work remotely and have worked remotely from several countries, not once has it been an issue. I just don’t walk up to the customs agent and naïvely say “oh hi, just an FYI that I plan to work remotely for this month from your beautiful country”.
catherinecodes 3y ago
Someone working in a foreign country for a few months is a tourist for all practical purposes.
Jcampuzano2 3y ago
Depends on your definition of tourist. If you are there for legitimate business within that country that is obviously a big no-no. If you are a tourist who works for a foreign company while visiting a country, well I don't know a single person who has been actually deported for this. I know it can happen, but most places seem to not care much, and mostly care you're spending your money in their country. I am a digital nomad myself for about 1/2 every year so I do have my biases though.
- alibarber 3y ago
  My definition of tourist is unimportant. That of the person at the border with the ability to deprive you of your liberty is.
  - nicbou 3y ago
    And when did that definition get people in trouble?
    - alibarber 3y ago
      When they ‘pretend’ they are doing it when they are not.
- someguydave 3y ago
  That the law is rarely enforced does not make the law invalid or unenforceable.
- mdasen 3y ago
  I agree that people are really unlikely to be deported for this, but I'm not sure that countries would treat you favorably if you walked up to immigration and said "I'm here to work in your country on a tourist visa, but don't worry because I'm just working remotely for a foreign company." I think a big part of this is that it's basically impossible to find digital nomads. How would a country know if you're in a hotel room or coffee shop working on your laptop? If you don't tell anyone what you're doing, they aren't going to know. Digital nomads also don't trigger the same "taking a job that a local could have" fear that drives a lot of immigration policies. As you note, you're just a person in that country spending money. However, you're also probably not paying taxes. I think there's a bit of a tension there. On the one hand, you're bringing in foreign money. On the other hand, you're using services just as a resident would and not paying all the taxes (you are likely paying some taxes like sales/VAT). Ultimately, I think a big part is that countries haven't figured out what to think of digital nomads. Heck, companies haven't figured out how to feel about them. Companies still haven't settled on whether remote workers should be paid less if they move to a cheaper location.
ChatGTP 3y ago
If you’re in Japan on a 90 day tourist visa and working remotely, there is next to zero chance you’ll be found out an deported. Many many people are doing this already.
cynicalkane 3y ago
There's digital nomads everywhere, and it's not hard to do legally under tourist visas. I know for a fact there are FAANG employees who do it today -- companies who would certainly shut that down if it was illegal. There are legal gotchas and grey areas. I would guess the Japan visa is aimed at clarifying the matter for long stays, because there's certainly no shortage of digital nomads in Japan.
- lupire 3y ago
  During COVID big companies made a huge deal about working internationally. They have to because it affect employees taxes and employer immigration laws. You can get away with a lot by being sneaky, but the companies are strongly officially opposed to it.
  - cynicalkane 3y ago
    > I know for a fact there are FAANG employees that do it today. The fact that many companies are risk-averse and don't allow it doesn't mean it's not legal. Like I said, at least one FAANG (maybe more) is fine with its employees working remote internationally if they follow the rules.
nerdbert 3y ago
Uh huh, and where are these places? I've worked remotely from literally a hundred countries over the past twenty years and can count on one hand the number of such cases I've even heard of. Nobody gives a shit, as long as you're not staying long enough to be a tax resident and you're not making trouble. The one famous incident, the 2014 Chiang Mai raid, came about because the authorities didn't know what a co-working space is, and thought that the foreigners were hired by the property owner to work there. None of them were deported for that.

Is it? I know that legally they could deport you so its not a great idea, but how often does someone actually get deported for doing remote work while spending a few months in another country?

nerdbert 3y ago
Literally never. This topic is one of those things that draws resentful ruleboys out of the woodwork to preach about something they have no firsthand knowledge of because none exists.
- alibarber 3y ago
  No, I think people are missing the wood for the trees here. The fact that these visas are becoming available means that governments are wising up to the fact that people have been working remotely on tourist visas and want in on it. They want to be able to charge for it, or set a limit on who can do it, or tax it. Now that these visas exist, and immigration officers know that, it’s only obvious that they’ll start to ask ‘tourists’ if they plan on working remotely or not. You can lie all you want, but if they find evidence (two laptops, notebooks, equipment) then good luck. What happened in the past is just that.
  - petronio 3y ago
    I think you're confusing their goal. It's not that they have a problem with people working remotely on tourist visas, it's that they want them to do it for longer as it brings economic benefit to the country. If they disliked the idea they wouldn't be creating new visas for the purpose, since that only makes it more prevalent and normalized.
- Gunnerhead 3y ago
  Seriously, “ruleboys” is a good one or what I thought of as “hall pass monitor”. I work remotely and have worked remotely from several countries, not once has it been an issue. I just don’t walk up to the customs agent and naïvely say “oh hi, just an FYI that I plan to work remotely for this month from your beautiful country”.

catherinecodes 3y ago

Someone working in a foreign country for a few months is a tourist for all practical purposes.

Jcampuzano2 3y ago

Depends on your definition of tourist. If you are there for legitimate business within that country that is obviously a big no-no. If you are a tourist who works for a foreign company while visiting a country, well I don't know a single person who has been actually deported for this. I know it can happen, but most places seem to not care much, and mostly care you're spending your money in their country. I am a digital nomad myself for about 1/2 every year so I do have my biases though.

alibarber 3y ago
My definition of tourist is unimportant. That of the person at the border with the ability to deprive you of your liberty is.
- nicbou 3y ago
  And when did that definition get people in trouble?
  - alibarber 3y ago
    When they ‘pretend’ they are doing it when they are not.
someguydave 3y ago
That the law is rarely enforced does not make the law invalid or unenforceable.
mdasen 3y ago
I agree that people are really unlikely to be deported for this, but I'm not sure that countries would treat you favorably if you walked up to immigration and said "I'm here to work in your country on a tourist visa, but don't worry because I'm just working remotely for a foreign company." I think a big part of this is that it's basically impossible to find digital nomads. How would a country know if you're in a hotel room or coffee shop working on your laptop? If you don't tell anyone what you're doing, they aren't going to know. Digital nomads also don't trigger the same "taking a job that a local could have" fear that drives a lot of immigration policies. As you note, you're just a person in that country spending money. However, you're also probably not paying taxes. I think there's a bit of a tension there. On the one hand, you're bringing in foreign money. On the other hand, you're using services just as a resident would and not paying all the taxes (you are likely paying some taxes like sales/VAT). Ultimately, I think a big part is that countries haven't figured out what to think of digital nomads. Heck, companies haven't figured out how to feel about them. Companies still haven't settled on whether remote workers should be paid less if they move to a cheaper location.

ChatGTP 3y ago

If you’re in Japan on a 90 day tourist visa and working remotely, there is next to zero chance you’ll be found out an deported. Many many people are doing this already.

cynicalkane 3y ago

There's digital nomads everywhere, and it's not hard to do legally under tourist visas. I know for a fact there are FAANG employees who do it today -- companies who would certainly shut that down if it was illegal. There are legal gotchas and grey areas. I would guess the Japan visa is aimed at clarifying the matter for long stays, because there's certainly no shortage of digital nomads in Japan.

lupire 3y ago
During COVID big companies made a huge deal about working internationally. They have to because it affect employees taxes and employer immigration laws. You can get away with a lot by being sneaky, but the companies are strongly officially opposed to it.
- cynicalkane 3y ago
  > I know for a fact there are FAANG employees that do it today. The fact that many companies are risk-averse and don't allow it doesn't mean it's not legal. Like I said, at least one FAANG (maybe more) is fine with its employees working remote internationally if they follow the rules.

nerdbert 3y ago

Uh huh, and where are these places? I've worked remotely from literally a hundred countries over the past twenty years and can count on one hand the number of such cases I've even heard of. Nobody gives a shit, as long as you're not staying long enough to be a tax resident and you're not making trouble. The one famous incident, the 2014 Chiang Mai raid, came about because the authorities didn't know what a co-working space is, and thought that the foreigners were hired by the property owner to work there. None of them were deported for that.