5 ms·

U.S. Hiring Accelerated in January

50 points by impish9208 3y ago

oldpersonintx 3y ago
25% of job growth in government You sure can buy a lot of nice stats for $1 trillion per quarter in new debt!
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > 25% of job growth in government 10%, and “below the average monthly gain of 57,000 in 2023” [1]. If you include social assistance we can get to 19%. Where are you seeing 25%? [1] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
- claudiulodro 3y ago
  The bulk of these are municipal and state government, not federal government.
maerF0x0 3y ago
[flagged]
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Literally none of the aspects of your statement are accurate. This report revised all the recent reports upwards. Pay is growing faster than inflation. Participation increases almost monotonically since the onset of the pandemic and for some demographic groups stands at record highs. Total labor participation rate is purely driven by generational demographics. Boomers have largely passed out of their working years, but they forgot to die, so total labor force participation falls. Prime age participation is as high as it's ever been. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300060 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300060
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - maerF0x0 3y ago
    Well here's sources that show that two points are not inaccurate at all, and one is hard to support depending on the stat you choose. And the stat you chose did barely increase. (IMO 0.5% in 1 year is suspect in my mind when you include my personal bias that inflation is under reported). Jobs numbers in Oct, Nov, Dec all revised down. [1], [2] Labor participation rate, peaked ~67% in 2000s, down to 61% a year after the pandemic. [3] Looks like you're right that median household income has had real gains "a 0.5-percent increase in real average weekly earnings over this period." [5] Even more stark when you filter by Men - peaked at 86% in the 50's and has been consistently declining for 70 years to 68%. [4] [1]: https://thehill.com/business/4389966-us-added-216000-jobs-in-december-closing-out-strong-2023/ https://thehill.com/business/4389966-us-added-216000-jobs-in... [2]: https://ktrh.iheart.com/featured/houston-texas-news/content/2024-02-02-january-jobs-report-beats-expectations-december-numbers-revised-downward/ https://ktrh.iheart.com/featured/houston-texas-news/content/... [3]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART [4]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300001 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300001 [5]: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/realer.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/realer.nr0.htm
- c0pium 3y ago
  December job growth was just revised. Up. By almost 50%.
  - maerF0x0 3y ago
    see my other reply for the stats i was referring to, completely contrary to your comment.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - c0pium 3y ago
      Lots of links, zero relevance. Real “ignore the words and listen to my confidence” vibes.
pton_xd 3y ago
Hiring accelerated? Isn't that... the opposite of what's happening? I don't know anyone whose having an easy time switching jobs right now. Where's all this "robust" hiring happening?
- rsynnott 3y ago
  The tech industry is not the whole world.
  - pton_xd 3y ago
    Banks, insurance companies, etc are all laying off. UPS just let go of 12k people. Tyson foods is laying off 4k. Again, where's all the robust hiring happening?
    - boplicity 3y ago
      +112,000 Education and health +74,000 Business services +45,200 Retail +36,000 Government +23,000 Manufacturing +11,000 Leisure and hospitality +11,000 Construction https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/02/business/jobs-report-january-economy/a5916f51-c831-5f67-acf7-d2023670d85e?smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/02/business/jobs-report...
      - pton_xd 3y ago
        That article says that "after today’s revisions, employers added more than 3 million jobs in 2023. That makes it the best year for job growth since 1999." In what world was 2023 the best year for job growth?
        boplicity 3y ago
        I'm not sure what you mean? Are you saying the numbers are wrong? Anyways, you asked where the hiring was -- and I found an answer to that question.
        3y ago
ulfw 3y ago
Except in Tech. Firings not hirings in tech companies. Still after two years.
- sneed_chucker 3y ago
  Hasn't really been two years. Beginning of 2022, lots of places were still hiring like crazy. Last quarter of 2022 is when the layoff stuff started.
- fckgw 3y ago
  And yet still substantially still more tech jobs than before the pandemic.
wcunning 3y ago
I read an interesting discussion of the jobs numbers from 2023 recently, the conclusion of which was basically that most of the jobs "created" last year were in healthcare and government and that in general all other sectors held steady or contracted. The piece went on to note that these are considered counter-cyclical industries and that that does not bode well for the labor market this year [0]. Further, I've been reading a lot of commentary saying that most of the posted job openings are fake (which I also experience anecdotally as true) since these jobs are posted to make it seem like companies aren't in the process of cutting costs and attempting to weather bad economic winds without any intention of hiring anyone into the listed roles. Similarly, I've seen my current employer list a lot of positions despite a lot of internal talk about hiring freezes. Worse than that, despite the hiring freezes, there are a tiny fraction of the open positions that get special dispensation to hire, so you can't just write off a whole giant company on rumors of hiring freezes, even if you have strong confidence in the rumor mill. All of this tends to indicate that hiring is down and will continue to be down through most of if not all of 2024. Charitably, you could interpret the article title as "true" in that most companies in the US do little hiring in late December and a lot in early January to avoid starting new employees when everyone with any seniority is out of office on vacation for at least the last week of December and often much longer, even at companies without an official Christmas to New Year's break. [0] https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/capitolism/some-of-my-big-2024-questions/ https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/capitolism/some-of-my-big...
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > most of the posted job openings are fake These are hiring numbers, not openings. I’m in the Bay Area right now, and it’s wild to hear the bubble it’s created for itself. In New York and Austin and West Wyoming, finding people is hard. It’s patently obvious the economy is hot because nobody can hire the people they need. Tech, on the other hand, is facing a combination of headwinds. Yet instead of recognising those we have conspiracy theories about election-year propaganda. > you could interpret the article title as "true" in that most companies in the US do little hiring in late December and a lot in early January December numbers are up, too. You’re citing the prevailing wisdom from just before these numbers.
HumblyTossed 3y ago
Probably low paying zero benefit jobs.
- c0pium 3y ago
  The leading growth sector was education and health. This information is all in the report in eye-watering detail.
- boplicity 3y ago
  Actually, wages went up 4.5%. Not bad -- and probably ahead of inflation. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/02/business/jobs-report-january-economy/0e009478-ccb0-5bbc-8df0-e0df68a21f76?smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/02/business/jobs-report...
  - asow92 3y ago
    wages going up 4.5% after three years of inflation averaging above 4.5% is not an improvement.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > wages going up 4.5% after three years of inflation averaging above 4.5% is not an improvement Real wages. Real wages are up [1]. We’re not up to the sugar high of the pandemic’s stimulus era, which is what people in tech are feeling. But we’re making more than since any time before Q4 2019 and any time since Q4 2021. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
      - asow92 3y ago
        My lived experience tells me that's just not true, but sure, fancy graphs never lie.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
debacle 3y ago
Almost every month of 2023 jobs numbers were revised down after a few months. I expect this will be similar.
- RetpolineDrama 3y ago
  I consider this trend of "announce big numbers, get headlines, then walk them back quietly in the coming months" rather alarming.
  - tekla 3y ago
    Such as?
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > this trend of "announce big numbers, get headlines, then walk them back quietly in the coming months" rather alarming Then you’ve just started following jobs numbers. They’re incredibly volatile when first released because of the way they’re collected. When the economy is moving, they have a decided bias. That said, this report revised up November and December’s numbers. That suggests we’re undercounting again.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  This announcement includes an upward revision to December and November jobs numbers.
303uru 3y ago
Tech is crumbling. Education, health, retail, manufacturing, construction are all booming. Signs that the US is returning to sanity!
asow92 3y ago
“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday […] it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.“
- dpflan 3y ago
  Elaborate?
  - MichaelNolan 3y ago
    It’s a quote from the book “1984”. Where a dystopian government routinely makes up fake numbers and even changes the numbers daily. The OP is either indicating that they don’t trust the government’s employment statistics, or the OP is indicating something along the lines of “yesterday we laid off 1000 workers, today we hired 500 workers” where the headline is +500 instead of -500.
    - dpflan 3y ago
      Thanks. Yes, I am aware of the origin and its implications, but was hoping the OP had more to it. I agree that it feels a bit manipulative, this "god number from the heavens". Here is the BLS' report: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
malloryerik 3y ago
Here's the report: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm A few highlights from the report itself (to clarify from spin): +353,000 in January, similar to revised December gain of 333,000. January monthly figures: Professional and business services: +74,000 jobs Healthcare: +70,000 Retail trade: +45,000 Social assistance: +30,000 Manufacturing: +23,000 Government employment: +36,000 Information: +15,000 But huh? How could that be? From the report: "In January, employment in information continued its upward trend (+15,000). Employment in motion picture and sound recording industries increased by 12,000, while employment in telecommunications decreased by 3,000. Overall, employment in the information industry is down by 76,000 since a recent peak in November 2022." Continuing... Mining, quarrying, and oil and gas: -5,000 Construction, wholesale trade, transportation and warehousing, financial activities, leisure and hospitality, and other services: "little change" Overall, average hourly earnings are up "19 cents, or 0.6 percent, to $34.55" -- I wonder what the mean is. What's more, employment "for December was revised up by 117,000, from +216,000 to +333,000". So these are super-strong numbers, and not "just government" though yes largely services (ex programmers). Remember that interest rates are currently restrictive and that money supply (M2) while having ticked up a bit lately, has fallen significantly for the last two years. M2: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WM2NS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WM2NS "Real M2": https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2REAL https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2REAL According to real M2 we've basically absorbed the Covid helicopter cash drops? As for programming jobs, that's likely, don't you think, an interest rate story, since startups and early stage ventures are highly interest rate-sensitive? But... it might be that LLMs actually... increase programmer hiring, as more projects become financially viable, if LLMs increase developer productivity? I hope so. What do you think?
thiago_fm 3y ago
Nope. It's all a lie. Here's why: The current US Government has a massive program that is creating a bubble in construction (Build Back Better), this generates a lot of jobs, but despite the program lasting a long period, those jobs don't stay and aren't jobs created entirely by free market and the private sector. Those jobs will go away, won't last and will likely have a reverse impact once we're at the other side of the construction cycle. If you have a look at the 12 months data, you'll see construction along with government has been a big hire https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/employment-by-industry-monthly-changes.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/employment-b... Government-led hiring changes from government to government, it generates bad bubbles and is bad. If you look at the data above, you'll see that we're actually doing pretty badly, if it wasn't for the increased demand by that package. Not to mention that those government packages are fueled by DEBT. The US is running a big deficit and this will "fake unemployment" will be paid by your kids.
- ramesh31 3y ago
  >Those jobs will go away, won't last and will likely have a reverse impact once we're at the other side of the construction cycle. All construction is cyclical. There's no such thing as a "permanent" construction job. Meanwhile, those workers will have jobs, health insurance, drive the economy, buy homes, and build wealth.
  - c0pium 3y ago
    Not to mention that before this there was a huge shortage of skilled construction workers in America which has had upward pressure on housing prices. What if those people cycle out of BBB jobs in a few years and into residential construction?
    - thiago_fm 3y ago
      Some will, others will become alcoholics, or already were and will no longer seek employment. Not to mention most construction people ideally don't stay in construction. It's really hard and sorta inhumane to do this when you are 50+ with problems all over your body. For many, unemployment and alcohol abuse looks like a better alternative. America doesn't want to talk or hear about this, as everybody want to buy their beautiful huge homes on a suburb, no matter how this is costly in the health and life of others
throwrecession 3y ago
I know almost no one that is doing good and enjoying the economic situation right now, but somehow the numbers are better on each report. Election year for sure.

50 points by impish9208 3y ago

oldpersonintx 3y ago

25% of job growth in government You sure can buy a lot of nice stats for $1 trillion per quarter in new debt!

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> 25% of job growth in government 10%, and “below the average monthly gain of 57,000 in 2023” [1]. If you include social assistance we can get to 19%. Where are you seeing 25%? [1] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
claudiulodro 3y ago
The bulk of these are municipal and state government, not federal government.

maerF0x0 3y ago

[flagged]

jeffbee 3y ago
Literally none of the aspects of your statement are accurate. This report revised all the recent reports upwards. Pay is growing faster than inflation. Participation increases almost monotonically since the onset of the pandemic and for some demographic groups stands at record highs. Total labor participation rate is purely driven by generational demographics. Boomers have largely passed out of their working years, but they forgot to die, so total labor force participation falls. Prime age participation is as high as it's ever been. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300060 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300060
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- maerF0x0 3y ago
  Well here's sources that show that two points are not inaccurate at all, and one is hard to support depending on the stat you choose. And the stat you chose did barely increase. (IMO 0.5% in 1 year is suspect in my mind when you include my personal bias that inflation is under reported). Jobs numbers in Oct, Nov, Dec all revised down. [1], [2] Labor participation rate, peaked ~67% in 2000s, down to 61% a year after the pandemic. [3] Looks like you're right that median household income has had real gains "a 0.5-percent increase in real average weekly earnings over this period." [5] Even more stark when you filter by Men - peaked at 86% in the 50's and has been consistently declining for 70 years to 68%. [4] [1]: https://thehill.com/business/4389966-us-added-216000-jobs-in-december-closing-out-strong-2023/ https://thehill.com/business/4389966-us-added-216000-jobs-in... [2]: https://ktrh.iheart.com/featured/houston-texas-news/content/2024-02-02-january-jobs-report-beats-expectations-december-numbers-revised-downward/ https://ktrh.iheart.com/featured/houston-texas-news/content/... [3]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART [4]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300001 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300001 [5]: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/realer.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/realer.nr0.htm
c0pium 3y ago
December job growth was just revised. Up. By almost 50%.
- maerF0x0 3y ago
  see my other reply for the stats i was referring to, completely contrary to your comment.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - c0pium 3y ago
    Lots of links, zero relevance. Real “ignore the words and listen to my confidence” vibes.

pton_xd 3y ago

Hiring accelerated? Isn't that... the opposite of what's happening? I don't know anyone whose having an easy time switching jobs right now. Where's all this "robust" hiring happening?

rsynnott 3y ago
The tech industry is not the whole world.
- pton_xd 3y ago
  Banks, insurance companies, etc are all laying off. UPS just let go of 12k people. Tyson foods is laying off 4k. Again, where's all the robust hiring happening?
  - boplicity 3y ago
    +112,000 Education and health +74,000 Business services +45,200 Retail +36,000 Government +23,000 Manufacturing +11,000 Leisure and hospitality +11,000 Construction https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/02/business/jobs-report-january-economy/a5916f51-c831-5f67-acf7-d2023670d85e?smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/02/business/jobs-report...
    - pton_xd 3y ago
      That article says that "after today’s revisions, employers added more than 3 million jobs in 2023. That makes it the best year for job growth since 1999." In what world was 2023 the best year for job growth?
      - boplicity 3y ago
        I'm not sure what you mean? Are you saying the numbers are wrong? Anyways, you asked where the hiring was -- and I found an answer to that question.
      - 3y ago

ulfw 3y ago

Except in Tech. Firings not hirings in tech companies. Still after two years.

sneed_chucker 3y ago
Hasn't really been two years. Beginning of 2022, lots of places were still hiring like crazy. Last quarter of 2022 is when the layoff stuff started.
fckgw 3y ago
And yet still substantially still more tech jobs than before the pandemic.

wcunning 3y ago

I read an interesting discussion of the jobs numbers from 2023 recently, the conclusion of which was basically that most of the jobs "created" last year were in healthcare and government and that in general all other sectors held steady or contracted. The piece went on to note that these are considered counter-cyclical industries and that that does not bode well for the labor market this year [0]. Further, I've been reading a lot of commentary saying that most of the posted job openings are fake (which I also experience anecdotally as true) since these jobs are posted to make it seem like companies aren't in the process of cutting costs and attempting to weather bad economic winds without any intention of hiring anyone into the listed roles. Similarly, I've seen my current employer list a lot of positions despite a lot of internal talk about hiring freezes. Worse than that, despite the hiring freezes, there are a tiny fraction of the open positions that get special dispensation to hire, so you can't just write off a whole giant company on rumors of hiring freezes, even if you have strong confidence in the rumor mill. All of this tends to indicate that hiring is down and will continue to be down through most of if not all of 2024. Charitably, you could interpret the article title as "true" in that most companies in the US do little hiring in late December and a lot in early January to avoid starting new employees when everyone with any seniority is out of office on vacation for at least the last week of December and often much longer, even at companies without an official Christmas to New Year's break. [0] https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/capitolism/some-of-my-big-2024-questions/ https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/capitolism/some-of-my-big...

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> most of the posted job openings are fake These are hiring numbers, not openings. I’m in the Bay Area right now, and it’s wild to hear the bubble it’s created for itself. In New York and Austin and West Wyoming, finding people is hard. It’s patently obvious the economy is hot because nobody can hire the people they need. Tech, on the other hand, is facing a combination of headwinds. Yet instead of recognising those we have conspiracy theories about election-year propaganda. > you could interpret the article title as "true" in that most companies in the US do little hiring in late December and a lot in early January December numbers are up, too. You’re citing the prevailing wisdom from just before these numbers.

HumblyTossed 3y ago

Probably low paying zero benefit jobs.

c0pium 3y ago
The leading growth sector was education and health. This information is all in the report in eye-watering detail.
boplicity 3y ago
Actually, wages went up 4.5%. Not bad -- and probably ahead of inflation. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/02/business/jobs-report-january-economy/0e009478-ccb0-5bbc-8df0-e0df68a21f76?smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/02/business/jobs-report...
- asow92 3y ago
  wages going up 4.5% after three years of inflation averaging above 4.5% is not an improvement.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > wages going up 4.5% after three years of inflation averaging above 4.5% is not an improvement Real wages. Real wages are up [1]. We’re not up to the sugar high of the pandemic’s stimulus era, which is what people in tech are feeling. But we’re making more than since any time before Q4 2019 and any time since Q4 2021. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
    - asow92 3y ago
      My lived experience tells me that's just not true, but sure, fancy graphs never lie.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago

debacle 3y ago

Almost every month of 2023 jobs numbers were revised down after a few months. I expect this will be similar.

RetpolineDrama 3y ago
I consider this trend of "announce big numbers, get headlines, then walk them back quietly in the coming months" rather alarming.
- tekla 3y ago
  Such as?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > this trend of "announce big numbers, get headlines, then walk them back quietly in the coming months" rather alarming Then you’ve just started following jobs numbers. They’re incredibly volatile when first released because of the way they’re collected. When the economy is moving, they have a decided bias. That said, this report revised up November and December’s numbers. That suggests we’re undercounting again.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
This announcement includes an upward revision to December and November jobs numbers.

303uru 3y ago

Tech is crumbling. Education, health, retail, manufacturing, construction are all booming. Signs that the US is returning to sanity!

asow92 3y ago

“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday […] it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.“

dpflan 3y ago
Elaborate?
- MichaelNolan 3y ago
  It’s a quote from the book “1984”. Where a dystopian government routinely makes up fake numbers and even changes the numbers daily. The OP is either indicating that they don’t trust the government’s employment statistics, or the OP is indicating something along the lines of “yesterday we laid off 1000 workers, today we hired 500 workers” where the headline is +500 instead of -500.
  - dpflan 3y ago
    Thanks. Yes, I am aware of the origin and its implications, but was hoping the OP had more to it. I agree that it feels a bit manipulative, this "god number from the heavens". Here is the BLS' report: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

malloryerik 3y ago

Here's the report: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm A few highlights from the report itself (to clarify from spin): +353,000 in January, similar to revised December gain of 333,000. January monthly figures: Professional and business services: +74,000 jobs Healthcare: +70,000 Retail trade: +45,000 Social assistance: +30,000 Manufacturing: +23,000 Government employment: +36,000 Information: +15,000 But huh? How could that be? From the report: "In January, employment in information continued its upward trend (+15,000). Employment in motion picture and sound recording industries increased by 12,000, while employment in telecommunications decreased by 3,000. Overall, employment in the information industry is down by 76,000 since a recent peak in November 2022." Continuing... Mining, quarrying, and oil and gas: -5,000 Construction, wholesale trade, transportation and warehousing, financial activities, leisure and hospitality, and other services: "little change" Overall, average hourly earnings are up "19 cents, or 0.6 percent, to $34.55" -- I wonder what the mean is. What's more, employment "for December was revised up by 117,000, from +216,000 to +333,000". So these are super-strong numbers, and not "just government" though yes largely services (ex programmers). Remember that interest rates are currently restrictive and that money supply (M2) while having ticked up a bit lately, has fallen significantly for the last two years. M2: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WM2NS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WM2NS "Real M2": https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2REAL https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2REAL According to real M2 we've basically absorbed the Covid helicopter cash drops? As for programming jobs, that's likely, don't you think, an interest rate story, since startups and early stage ventures are highly interest rate-sensitive? But... it might be that LLMs actually... increase programmer hiring, as more projects become financially viable, if LLMs increase developer productivity? I hope so. What do you think?

thiago_fm 3y ago

Nope. It's all a lie. Here's why: The current US Government has a massive program that is creating a bubble in construction (Build Back Better), this generates a lot of jobs, but despite the program lasting a long period, those jobs don't stay and aren't jobs created entirely by free market and the private sector. Those jobs will go away, won't last and will likely have a reverse impact once we're at the other side of the construction cycle. If you have a look at the 12 months data, you'll see construction along with government has been a big hire https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/employment-by-industry-monthly-changes.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/employment-b... Government-led hiring changes from government to government, it generates bad bubbles and is bad. If you look at the data above, you'll see that we're actually doing pretty badly, if it wasn't for the increased demand by that package. Not to mention that those government packages are fueled by DEBT. The US is running a big deficit and this will "fake unemployment" will be paid by your kids.

ramesh31 3y ago
>Those jobs will go away, won't last and will likely have a reverse impact once we're at the other side of the construction cycle. All construction is cyclical. There's no such thing as a "permanent" construction job. Meanwhile, those workers will have jobs, health insurance, drive the economy, buy homes, and build wealth.
- c0pium 3y ago
  Not to mention that before this there was a huge shortage of skilled construction workers in America which has had upward pressure on housing prices. What if those people cycle out of BBB jobs in a few years and into residential construction?
  - thiago_fm 3y ago
    Some will, others will become alcoholics, or already were and will no longer seek employment. Not to mention most construction people ideally don't stay in construction. It's really hard and sorta inhumane to do this when you are 50+ with problems all over your body. For many, unemployment and alcohol abuse looks like a better alternative. America doesn't want to talk or hear about this, as everybody want to buy their beautiful huge homes on a suburb, no matter how this is costly in the health and life of others

throwrecession 3y ago

I know almost no one that is doing good and enjoying the economic situation right now, but somehow the numbers are better on each report. Election year for sure.