5 ms·

It's probably also worth noting that most job ads are not 100% honest with the requirements for the role, and often feel more like a wishlist for the 'ideal' ca

by CM30 3y ago

It's probably also worth noting that most job ads are not 100% honest with the requirements for the role, and often feel more like a wishlist for the 'ideal' candidate rather than a set of concrete requirements. Heck, I've had at least a few companies and recruiters come back after I said I didn't feel I was right for the role due to not having [particular skill/language listed in the description] and say that it wasn't actually necessary after all. Well, at least that's often the case for permanent roles. For contractor ones it's likely a lot more about finding the person who can fix their problem immediately, and hence the requirements would be more accurate.

pasc1878 3y ago
I agree in general but don't fully trust recruiters who say you should go ahead anyway - it will depend on your previous experience with that recruiter.
- CM30 3y ago
  This is a very fair point. The recruiter and the company they're working with don't always have the same incentives, so it's entirely possible the former will put forward candidates that don't meet the requirements just to fill their quota too. Add this to how the work actually being done in a company often has very little to do with the interview or application process, and well, it's no wonder applying for them is such a crapshoot now.
mamonster 3y ago
In Switzerland it's very common that if a hedge fund / financial company wants to hire a specific person from abroad(so he would need a permit) then they post a job ad that basically uniquely identifies that person's skillset, post it on glassdoor or jobs.ch or other, and then either get no response or filter people who think this is an actual opening. They then go to the immigration authority and say "Look, we cannot fill this position on the local market, we need to look abroad" and then miraculously just the right candidate shows up. Not sure how frequent it is in other countries, but if you see a ridiculous/incoherent job ad from a smaller company, it might be for a job that's already filled.
- YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
  This also happens every time an organisation wants to promote someone but some rule or regulation forces them to advertise the role externally. Copy-pasting directly from the candidate’s CV into the job listing.
- cafard 3y ago
  Many years ago, I saw in the Washington Post help-wanted section an advertisement for somebody with a master's degree and fluent in Chinese, for wages that were about secretarial level. Much later I understood that this was work-visa stuff--hey, we can't hire locally for our needs!
- BiteCode_dev 3y ago
  My public administration clients do exactly that with my profile: they want to hire me but must pretend they consider competition, so they publish my resume as a requirement.
- ghaff 3y ago
  I had a position created for me once because basically someone (very) higher-up I knew wanted to hire me. I'm a little sorry I never looked for the job description that in retrospect I imagine was posted. I suspect it had some requirements or strongly preferred prereqs that very few people would have met.
- 98codes 3y ago
  That's super common in the US and not just for hedge funds, it's practically everywhere.
- tivert 3y ago
  > Not sure how frequent it is in other countries, but if you see a ridiculous/incoherent job ad from a smaller company, it might be for a job that's already filled. That's a required step in the US for converting a worker from a temporary(ish) work visa (H1-B) to a permanent residency visa (green card). They have to prove they can't fill the position with an American. Which is stupid and terrible system. By the time that step is reached, the immigrant employee has probably been settled in the US for 5+ years. It would be a giant injustice if anyone gets hired for those job postings, because that would fuck over the immigrant employee, so the candidates have no chance.
fudged71 3y ago
This is an interesting problem. Our company is outputting specific role responsibilities based on process mapping and resource sizing. And we are looking into using AI to write job descriptions. But is it ultimately going to be a recruiting problem if we show the exact breakdown of a role on a job description? How does that differ from role to role?
al_borland 3y ago
My old boss was looking to hire some more people for entry level positions. He had me review his write up before he posted it. For some background, at this time I had been at the job for over 10 years. I started at the bottom and worked my way up to the top and then out of that team. I did nearly every job at some point and worked all the shifts to know the different jobs on those different shifts. I wrote 90% of the docs, I defined a significant number of the processes, I wrote all the tools, wrote all the training, interviewed countless people for jobs on the team at all levels, and personally trained dozens of them (across the country and globe). I was also told I had carte blanche to speak for the VP and the team, and could basically do whatever I wanted. I was very qualified to be on the team by pretty much any measure. In many ways I defined what the team was and how it worked at that point in time. Reading the job description, I had no idea what it was asking for or talking about, felt under qualified for the job, and wouldn’t have applied. I didn’t think I knew anything it was asking for. I told my boss this and he ran with it anyway. I’d encourage anyone to read the job posting for any open positions on your team to see how disconnected from reality they are. You’d think that experience would make me take other postings less seriously, as the level of BS was off the charts, but I still have trouble applying for anything where I can’t check off almost every box.

by CM30 3y ago

pasc1878 3y ago

I agree in general but don't fully trust recruiters who say you should go ahead anyway - it will depend on your previous experience with that recruiter.

CM30 3y ago
This is a very fair point. The recruiter and the company they're working with don't always have the same incentives, so it's entirely possible the former will put forward candidates that don't meet the requirements just to fill their quota too. Add this to how the work actually being done in a company often has very little to do with the interview or application process, and well, it's no wonder applying for them is such a crapshoot now.

mamonster 3y ago

In Switzerland it's very common that if a hedge fund / financial company wants to hire a specific person from abroad(so he would need a permit) then they post a job ad that basically uniquely identifies that person's skillset, post it on glassdoor or jobs.ch or other, and then either get no response or filter people who think this is an actual opening. They then go to the immigration authority and say "Look, we cannot fill this position on the local market, we need to look abroad" and then miraculously just the right candidate shows up. Not sure how frequent it is in other countries, but if you see a ridiculous/incoherent job ad from a smaller company, it might be for a job that's already filled.

YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
This also happens every time an organisation wants to promote someone but some rule or regulation forces them to advertise the role externally. Copy-pasting directly from the candidate’s CV into the job listing.
cafard 3y ago
Many years ago, I saw in the Washington Post help-wanted section an advertisement for somebody with a master's degree and fluent in Chinese, for wages that were about secretarial level. Much later I understood that this was work-visa stuff--hey, we can't hire locally for our needs!
BiteCode_dev 3y ago
My public administration clients do exactly that with my profile: they want to hire me but must pretend they consider competition, so they publish my resume as a requirement.
ghaff 3y ago
I had a position created for me once because basically someone (very) higher-up I knew wanted to hire me. I'm a little sorry I never looked for the job description that in retrospect I imagine was posted. I suspect it had some requirements or strongly preferred prereqs that very few people would have met.
98codes 3y ago
That's super common in the US and not just for hedge funds, it's practically everywhere.
tivert 3y ago
> Not sure how frequent it is in other countries, but if you see a ridiculous/incoherent job ad from a smaller company, it might be for a job that's already filled. That's a required step in the US for converting a worker from a temporary(ish) work visa (H1-B) to a permanent residency visa (green card). They have to prove they can't fill the position with an American. Which is stupid and terrible system. By the time that step is reached, the immigrant employee has probably been settled in the US for 5+ years. It would be a giant injustice if anyone gets hired for those job postings, because that would fuck over the immigrant employee, so the candidates have no chance.

fudged71 3y ago

This is an interesting problem. Our company is outputting specific role responsibilities based on process mapping and resource sizing. And we are looking into using AI to write job descriptions. But is it ultimately going to be a recruiting problem if we show the exact breakdown of a role on a job description? How does that differ from role to role?

al_borland 3y ago

My old boss was looking to hire some more people for entry level positions. He had me review his write up before he posted it. For some background, at this time I had been at the job for over 10 years. I started at the bottom and worked my way up to the top and then out of that team. I did nearly every job at some point and worked all the shifts to know the different jobs on those different shifts. I wrote 90% of the docs, I defined a significant number of the processes, I wrote all the tools, wrote all the training, interviewed countless people for jobs on the team at all levels, and personally trained dozens of them (across the country and globe). I was also told I had carte blanche to speak for the VP and the team, and could basically do whatever I wanted. I was very qualified to be on the team by pretty much any measure. In many ways I defined what the team was and how it worked at that point in time. Reading the job description, I had no idea what it was asking for or talking about, felt under qualified for the job, and wouldn’t have applied. I didn’t think I knew anything it was asking for. I told my boss this and he ran with it anyway. I’d encourage anyone to read the job posting for any open positions on your team to see how disconnected from reality they are. You’d think that experience would make me take other postings less seriously, as the level of BS was off the charts, but I still have trouble applying for anything where I can’t check off almost every box.