4 ms·

> It seems that we've built quite a capable ad machine. I wonder what it would look like if we built something for news. Like Wikileaks?

babypuncher 3y ago
Yes, but without the Kremlin dictating which content is actually worth leaking.
- BlueTemplar 3y ago
  The Kremlin ?
  - toss1 3y ago
    Yes, the Kremlin. Assange may have started out with pure intentions, but as he ran out of money, the only funding became available from the Kremlin. The cover for funding him was his show on RT, the Kremlin-funded English-language television station. You might recall that Assange bragged about a huge dump of info about Putin and other Russian leaders/oligarchs that was soon to be dropped. It never did. It was either entirely BS from the start to provide cover, or existed but was withheld to keep happy his new sponsors. You also may recall that the Wikileaks dumps of info stolen by Russian hackers on Hillary Clinton was miraculously released within hours of Trump's "I grabbed her by the pussy" tapes. A classic Russian disinformation move to distract the media, which was quite successful. That's just glancing at a few highlights. By the time Wikileaks became significant, it was a straight-up Russian operation. It would have been a far better life decision for Assange to simply quit when he ran out of funds, than to sell out. Sad
    - whatshisface 3y ago
      It is surprising to hear that Russia is doing something good for America.
      - ethanbond 3y ago
        See, it works!
        whatshisface 3y ago
        Or is it the "Russia's behind it" narrative working the other way, to convince Americans that what's good for them is, somehow, bad for them?
    - lukan 3y ago
      The FSB might have had more means to convince Assange, than just money. But from what I remember with a interview with him, he seemed to entrench himself with the narrative that the US as superpower number 1, is the evil empire number 1 ( he has a anarchist, anti state background). So blinded by fanatism would be my assumption. So blinded, that he does not mind the open power abuse by those new allies. It is a phenomen, I often witnessed. More so now, with the various alternative rebells, against globalisation, power abuse etc. - and then finding all sorts of wild justifications for Putins Invasion in Ukraine. Black and white thinking, combined with double think, in all its glory.
      - Terr_ 3y ago
        In stark contrast: > #29: The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less. -- The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries
        halostatue 3y ago
        Good old Howard Tayler and Schlock Mercenary.
      - thrwwycbr 3y ago
        > open power abuse by those new allies I would argue that the capitol raid fanatics are anarchists as well, under the cover of being republican voters. They don't mind the open power abuse by the Kremlin as well. The core issue I have with the power play on the internet is that it leads to isolationist behaviors on both sides, which in return stalls democratic approaches to finding a compromise in between both opinions.
        lukan 3y ago
        "The core issue I have with the power play on the internet is that it leads to isolationist behaviors on both sides" I am not sure if it is the fault of the internet and if this was better before, but the expectation was definitely that it helps bring people more together, not apart. All the various information, one click away. It takes really effort, to ignore all that and entrench in your bubble.
    - beepbooptheory 3y ago
      Why didn't they offer him asylum like they did Snowden?
      - thrwwycbr 3y ago
        He ain't got nothing to trade left
    - BlueTemplar 3y ago
      Hmm, maybe that's actually why I pretty much started ignoring Wikileaks from some point on, to the point I even forgot about all this ? Wikileaks was perhaps most significant in 2010/2011 (the Manning Iraq / Afghan War leaks)... but you're right, at the very least, looks like he had been a tool (in both senses of the word) of the Kremlin pretty close to that moment already : https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/apr/17/world-tomorrow-julian-assange-wikileaks https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/apr/17/world-tomorrow... https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia-ties https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia...
    - boomboomsubban 3y ago
      >A classic Russian disinformation move to distract the media, which was quite successful. It's also basic PR. Hell, watching "The Thick of It" is enough to teach you that when a bad story comes out, try to use a different story as a distraction. That hardly requires Kremlin support.
      - toss1 3y ago
        True, it's just that the Russians have so embraced it as a standard procedure that it's a way of life that they've refined to an art form. And in this case, the release was actually coordinated with the Russians (ref activities of Roger Stone & Paul Manafort, incl public comments). And yes, their apprentices on both sides of the oceans are learning well.
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    The Kremlin.
__MatrixMan__ 3y ago
Somewhat. Though I hope it wouldn't have to work through an ad network to reach us, or depend on money: just participation.

babypuncher 3y ago

Yes, but without the Kremlin dictating which content is actually worth leaking.

BlueTemplar 3y ago
The Kremlin ?
- toss1 3y ago
  Yes, the Kremlin. Assange may have started out with pure intentions, but as he ran out of money, the only funding became available from the Kremlin. The cover for funding him was his show on RT, the Kremlin-funded English-language television station. You might recall that Assange bragged about a huge dump of info about Putin and other Russian leaders/oligarchs that was soon to be dropped. It never did. It was either entirely BS from the start to provide cover, or existed but was withheld to keep happy his new sponsors. You also may recall that the Wikileaks dumps of info stolen by Russian hackers on Hillary Clinton was miraculously released within hours of Trump's "I grabbed her by the pussy" tapes. A classic Russian disinformation move to distract the media, which was quite successful. That's just glancing at a few highlights. By the time Wikileaks became significant, it was a straight-up Russian operation. It would have been a far better life decision for Assange to simply quit when he ran out of funds, than to sell out. Sad
  - whatshisface 3y ago
    It is surprising to hear that Russia is doing something good for America.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      See, it works!
      - whatshisface 3y ago
        Or is it the "Russia's behind it" narrative working the other way, to convince Americans that what's good for them is, somehow, bad for them?
  - lukan 3y ago
    The FSB might have had more means to convince Assange, than just money. But from what I remember with a interview with him, he seemed to entrench himself with the narrative that the US as superpower number 1, is the evil empire number 1 ( he has a anarchist, anti state background). So blinded by fanatism would be my assumption. So blinded, that he does not mind the open power abuse by those new allies. It is a phenomen, I often witnessed. More so now, with the various alternative rebells, against globalisation, power abuse etc. - and then finding all sorts of wild justifications for Putins Invasion in Ukraine. Black and white thinking, combined with double think, in all its glory.
    - Terr_ 3y ago
      In stark contrast: > #29: The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less. -- The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries
      - halostatue 3y ago
        Good old Howard Tayler and Schlock Mercenary.
    - thrwwycbr 3y ago
      > open power abuse by those new allies I would argue that the capitol raid fanatics are anarchists as well, under the cover of being republican voters. They don't mind the open power abuse by the Kremlin as well. The core issue I have with the power play on the internet is that it leads to isolationist behaviors on both sides, which in return stalls democratic approaches to finding a compromise in between both opinions.
      - lukan 3y ago
        "The core issue I have with the power play on the internet is that it leads to isolationist behaviors on both sides" I am not sure if it is the fault of the internet and if this was better before, but the expectation was definitely that it helps bring people more together, not apart. All the various information, one click away. It takes really effort, to ignore all that and entrench in your bubble.
  - beepbooptheory 3y ago
    Why didn't they offer him asylum like they did Snowden?
    - thrwwycbr 3y ago
      He ain't got nothing to trade left
  - BlueTemplar 3y ago
    Hmm, maybe that's actually why I pretty much started ignoring Wikileaks from some point on, to the point I even forgot about all this ? Wikileaks was perhaps most significant in 2010/2011 (the Manning Iraq / Afghan War leaks)... but you're right, at the very least, looks like he had been a tool (in both senses of the word) of the Kremlin pretty close to that moment already : https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/apr/17/world-tomorrow-julian-assange-wikileaks https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/apr/17/world-tomorrow... https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia-ties https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia...
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    >A classic Russian disinformation move to distract the media, which was quite successful. It's also basic PR. Hell, watching "The Thick of It" is enough to teach you that when a bad story comes out, try to use a different story as a distraction. That hardly requires Kremlin support.
    - toss1 3y ago
      True, it's just that the Russians have so embraced it as a standard procedure that it's a way of life that they've refined to an art form. And in this case, the release was actually coordinated with the Russians (ref activities of Roger Stone & Paul Manafort, incl public comments). And yes, their apprentices on both sides of the oceans are learning well.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  The Kremlin.

__MatrixMan__ 3y ago

Somewhat. Though I hope it wouldn't have to work through an ad network to reach us, or depend on money: just participation.