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Given MS being horribly anti-user these days, monetizing each user to be farmed like cattle and Apple's massive anti-consumer malicious compliance to any legal

Given MS being horribly anti-user these days, monetizing each user to be farmed like cattle and Apple's massive anti-consumer malicious compliance to any legal rulings, more people should be considering Linux. It's fast. It respects the user. Games work beautifully with proton. Most software has an equivalent on Linux if they don't offer their own binaries. More and more I don't understand the desire or need to generate revenue for companies that treat you like dumb cattle.

dotcoma 3y ago
Not a SWE here. Used Ubuntu from 2006 to 2011. It used to take some effort, compared to OSX. But if we’re talking Linux vs Windows, I completely agree.
- jojobas 3y ago
  Ubuntu went a looong way since then. Even debian is not longer scary-scary.
- ActionHank 3y ago
  I hear you, but they've all moved along in leaps and bounds. Some options if you ever look again - * ElementaryOS(https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/) * PopOS(https://pop.system76.com/ https://pop.system76.com/) * Linux Mint(https://linuxmint.com/ https://linuxmint.com/) * As always, Ubuntu(https://ubuntu.com/ https://ubuntu.com/) All solid, functional, and not treating you like cattle.
  - dotcoma 3y ago
    Thanks. Pretty happy with OSX, and also happy to be spending less time in front of a computer :)
  - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
    Last week my wife got prompted by Ubuntu's automatic software update to install a security update that required signing up to some paid Ubuntu subscription. I'm not sure this is really what it meant (I didn't see the prompt myself), but it was what Ubuntu made her believe. After updating without this "option", all her VirtualBox VMs stopped working (I don't mean to imply that these two issues are linked).
    - jeroenhd 3y ago
      Ubuntu has a Pro subscription for businesses, which is free for up to five (I think) installs for consumers. Ubuntu Pro allows for things like patching the kernel while the kernel is running. If you're using VirtualBox, which uses kernel drivers on the host for acceleration, and you do a normal update, you need to reboot to make those drivers work again. You shouldn't need to, but something in Oracle's DKMS driver building process removes the existing drivers for some reason. If the kernel is replaced while running, the new kernel modules should be loadable immediately and there will only be a brief moment during which VirtualBox wouldn't work. Ubuntu Pro also provides updates to software packages that weren't maintained before the introduction to Ubuntu Pro (the Universe packages) so it's probably not a bad idea to enable it. If you don't log in, you'll get the same experience Ubuntu always had before Pro was introduced, which includes the possibility of VirtualBox being broken until you reboot. This isn't Canonical sabotaging your wife's computer, it's just how some updates go down on Ubuntu.
      - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
        A reboot did not fix the VMs for her. A Google search revealed that she had to install some additional dev package. I didn't think that Canonical was sabotaging her computer. What I do think is that Canonical is using security updates as an upselling opportunity. In my opinion this is a bad idea, especially if the language used is vague enough to mislead people.
abirch 3y ago
I second a vote for Linux or Neverware. OMG I used Windows 11 yesterday to debug something. Efficiency mode sucks so bad. Chrome was unusable with it and there's no apparent way to disable it. I'm environmentally conscious but I'd club a baby penguin to disable Efficiency mode.
fletchowns 3y ago
> Games work beautifully with proton. Most of the popular FPS games require anti-cheat software that does not work in Linux :(
- ActionHank 3y ago
  I only really play single player, but I have run into this too. This is a great resource to keep track of progress - https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/
- orthoxerox 3y ago
  And that's a good thing, I wouldn't want a game to install a rootkit on my PC.
  - Hikikomori 3y ago
    You think you're safe by running the game only?
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    I agree, but this means Linux is not a viable option for millions of people.
  - fletchowns 3y ago
    The frustration of dealing with cheaters in a game you want to play will drive you to do crazy things!
- mbwgh 3y ago
  While that is generally true, as others have already reported there is progress being made. Since a few days ago, I tried installing/running Elden Ring again, which did not work when it came out due to EAC. Works flawlessly out of the box now.
  - TwentyPosts 3y ago
    >which did not work when it came out due to EAC Nonsense. It worked on the day of release for me, on Linux. I don't know what went wrong on your side, but I played it on release day. There were two issues, namely: 1. It crashed on start-up roughly half of the time. Not great, but survivable. 2. Swapping to a different workspace (Sway, Wayland) for an extended period of time made the game think your framerate is low, and it forced you to play offline with "FPS unsuitable for online play". That's all. Other than that, the game experience was buttery smooth.
thimp 3y ago
Honestly I'd love to do this but I'm getting too old to argue with Linux on the desktop. The apps I want don't exist on the platform (Adobe mostly) and the high DPI and fractional scaling is a mess. On top of that the desktop user interface, whichever desktop you use is quite frankly terrible. I'm just using a Mac as a terminal for an EC2 instance where I do all the software dev now.
- ActionHank 3y ago
  Fractional scaling on KDE + Wayland is working pretty well for me. I came from Windows, then macOS, I have been very happy with KDE. Adobe is an issue, there are many analogs though. In place of Photoshop you could use Photopea, Krita, GIMP. That said I understand that people generally love their Adobe apps.
  - thimp 3y ago
    KDE is reasonable but the problem is that not all toolkits are made equal. If you have to fire up something that uses Gtk, which is somewhat inevitable, it really pokes you in the eyes. I tend to use Adobe stuff because it is literally a decade ahead of the closest open source software and is not expensive on a monthly basis for what you get. I could not get close to what I do with open source software. I have tried. I mean just the AI denoise in Adobe Lightroom can't be touched by anything. I wish it could. And I wish I could contribute to something open source to do that but I'm not good enough at it :)
    - anthk 3y ago
      Both GTK and QT have modules to integrate the opposite toolkit themes seamlessly. For QT5/6 software into GTK desktops, there's QT5CT. My XFCE4 desktop running QComicbook (QT5 comic viewer) both have the exact same theme, Zukitre. Ditto with the icons.
zer00eyz 3y ago
> Given MS being horribly anti-user these days, monetizing each user to be farmed like cattle and Apple's massive anti-consumer malicious compliance to any legal rulings, more people should be considering Linux. Apple is the farthest thing from "anti-consumer". Let's find one company that takes security in any way shape or form as seriously. Name one company that consistently picks up the phone. What device are we going to give to my dad, or my less than stellar relatives... (do you want to be their linux support line?). >> More and more I don't understand the desire or need to generate revenue for companies that treat you like dumb cattle. The apple tax: what your family gives to apple because they aren't going to pay you for support.
- 0dayz 3y ago
  So let's just ignore their "compliance" with third party app stores or their "compliance" for anyone's right to repair.
  - tonyedgecombe 3y ago
    Most people don't care, they see what their friends have to put up with when running Windows and they decide to keep buying Apple products.
sunshinerag 3y ago
Completely agree on MS. Would not agree on Linux being friendly on the desktop. I find Apple to be the best for me on the desktop and also family. I use linux on servers, work ...
windowsrookie 3y ago
I would like to use linux but every system I have ever installed it on, it eventually breaks. Then I have to spend several hours searching through forums trying to find the correct command line prompts to fix it. This is even using the supposedly "reliable" distros like Ubuntu and Mint. At this point when a linux user says they never have an issue I just can't believe them. I don't do anything complex, but linux always eventually fails in some way. I have above average knowledge of computers, and still linux cannot work reliably for me. It will never go mainstream until it can work without breaking, and never touching the terminal for 10+ years like MacOS can. As an example, look at the "Switched to linux challenge" Linus Tech Tips did a couple years ago, he tried to install steam and it broke his entire OS. I have never installed anything on Windows or MacOS that has broken my OS. If you want regular users to use linux, things like that should not be possible.
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  > This is even using the supposedly "reliable" distros like Ubuntu and Mint. You mean the distros with a marketing budget? Confusing those two is a common misconception.
- aembleton 3y ago
  > and never touching the terminal for 10+ years I think this is key. I'm comfortable in the terminal so it really doesn't bother me and I doubt many days go by where I'm not using it. Linux works for me, but its not for everyone and I still have an old macbook for some photo editing applications.

dotcoma 3y ago

Not a SWE here. Used Ubuntu from 2006 to 2011. It used to take some effort, compared to OSX. But if we’re talking Linux vs Windows, I completely agree.

jojobas 3y ago
Ubuntu went a looong way since then. Even debian is not longer scary-scary.
ActionHank 3y ago
I hear you, but they've all moved along in leaps and bounds. Some options if you ever look again - * ElementaryOS(https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/) * PopOS(https://pop.system76.com/ https://pop.system76.com/) * Linux Mint(https://linuxmint.com/ https://linuxmint.com/) * As always, Ubuntu(https://ubuntu.com/ https://ubuntu.com/) All solid, functional, and not treating you like cattle.
- dotcoma 3y ago
  Thanks. Pretty happy with OSX, and also happy to be spending less time in front of a computer :)
- fauigerzigerk 3y ago
  Last week my wife got prompted by Ubuntu's automatic software update to install a security update that required signing up to some paid Ubuntu subscription. I'm not sure this is really what it meant (I didn't see the prompt myself), but it was what Ubuntu made her believe. After updating without this "option", all her VirtualBox VMs stopped working (I don't mean to imply that these two issues are linked).
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    Ubuntu has a Pro subscription for businesses, which is free for up to five (I think) installs for consumers. Ubuntu Pro allows for things like patching the kernel while the kernel is running. If you're using VirtualBox, which uses kernel drivers on the host for acceleration, and you do a normal update, you need to reboot to make those drivers work again. You shouldn't need to, but something in Oracle's DKMS driver building process removes the existing drivers for some reason. If the kernel is replaced while running, the new kernel modules should be loadable immediately and there will only be a brief moment during which VirtualBox wouldn't work. Ubuntu Pro also provides updates to software packages that weren't maintained before the introduction to Ubuntu Pro (the Universe packages) so it's probably not a bad idea to enable it. If you don't log in, you'll get the same experience Ubuntu always had before Pro was introduced, which includes the possibility of VirtualBox being broken until you reboot. This isn't Canonical sabotaging your wife's computer, it's just how some updates go down on Ubuntu.
    - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
      A reboot did not fix the VMs for her. A Google search revealed that she had to install some additional dev package. I didn't think that Canonical was sabotaging her computer. What I do think is that Canonical is using security updates as an upselling opportunity. In my opinion this is a bad idea, especially if the language used is vague enough to mislead people.

abirch 3y ago

I second a vote for Linux or Neverware. OMG I used Windows 11 yesterday to debug something. Efficiency mode sucks so bad. Chrome was unusable with it and there's no apparent way to disable it. I'm environmentally conscious but I'd club a baby penguin to disable Efficiency mode.

fletchowns 3y ago

> Games work beautifully with proton. Most of the popular FPS games require anti-cheat software that does not work in Linux :(

ActionHank 3y ago
I only really play single player, but I have run into this too. This is a great resource to keep track of progress - https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/
orthoxerox 3y ago
And that's a good thing, I wouldn't want a game to install a rootkit on my PC.
- Hikikomori 3y ago
  You think you're safe by running the game only?
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  I agree, but this means Linux is not a viable option for millions of people.
- fletchowns 3y ago
  The frustration of dealing with cheaters in a game you want to play will drive you to do crazy things!
mbwgh 3y ago
While that is generally true, as others have already reported there is progress being made. Since a few days ago, I tried installing/running Elden Ring again, which did not work when it came out due to EAC. Works flawlessly out of the box now.
- TwentyPosts 3y ago
  >which did not work when it came out due to EAC Nonsense. It worked on the day of release for me, on Linux. I don't know what went wrong on your side, but I played it on release day. There were two issues, namely: 1. It crashed on start-up roughly half of the time. Not great, but survivable. 2. Swapping to a different workspace (Sway, Wayland) for an extended period of time made the game think your framerate is low, and it forced you to play offline with "FPS unsuitable for online play". That's all. Other than that, the game experience was buttery smooth.

thimp 3y ago

Honestly I'd love to do this but I'm getting too old to argue with Linux on the desktop. The apps I want don't exist on the platform (Adobe mostly) and the high DPI and fractional scaling is a mess. On top of that the desktop user interface, whichever desktop you use is quite frankly terrible. I'm just using a Mac as a terminal for an EC2 instance where I do all the software dev now.

ActionHank 3y ago
Fractional scaling on KDE + Wayland is working pretty well for me. I came from Windows, then macOS, I have been very happy with KDE. Adobe is an issue, there are many analogs though. In place of Photoshop you could use Photopea, Krita, GIMP. That said I understand that people generally love their Adobe apps.
- thimp 3y ago
  KDE is reasonable but the problem is that not all toolkits are made equal. If you have to fire up something that uses Gtk, which is somewhat inevitable, it really pokes you in the eyes. I tend to use Adobe stuff because it is literally a decade ahead of the closest open source software and is not expensive on a monthly basis for what you get. I could not get close to what I do with open source software. I have tried. I mean just the AI denoise in Adobe Lightroom can't be touched by anything. I wish it could. And I wish I could contribute to something open source to do that but I'm not good enough at it :)
  - anthk 3y ago
    Both GTK and QT have modules to integrate the opposite toolkit themes seamlessly. For QT5/6 software into GTK desktops, there's QT5CT. My XFCE4 desktop running QComicbook (QT5 comic viewer) both have the exact same theme, Zukitre. Ditto with the icons.

zer00eyz 3y ago

> Given MS being horribly anti-user these days, monetizing each user to be farmed like cattle and Apple's massive anti-consumer malicious compliance to any legal rulings, more people should be considering Linux. Apple is the farthest thing from "anti-consumer". Let's find one company that takes security in any way shape or form as seriously. Name one company that consistently picks up the phone. What device are we going to give to my dad, or my less than stellar relatives... (do you want to be their linux support line?). >> More and more I don't understand the desire or need to generate revenue for companies that treat you like dumb cattle. The apple tax: what your family gives to apple because they aren't going to pay you for support.

0dayz 3y ago
So let's just ignore their "compliance" with third party app stores or their "compliance" for anyone's right to repair.
- tonyedgecombe 3y ago
  Most people don't care, they see what their friends have to put up with when running Windows and they decide to keep buying Apple products.

sunshinerag 3y ago

Completely agree on MS. Would not agree on Linux being friendly on the desktop. I find Apple to be the best for me on the desktop and also family. I use linux on servers, work ...

windowsrookie 3y ago

I would like to use linux but every system I have ever installed it on, it eventually breaks. Then I have to spend several hours searching through forums trying to find the correct command line prompts to fix it. This is even using the supposedly "reliable" distros like Ubuntu and Mint. At this point when a linux user says they never have an issue I just can't believe them. I don't do anything complex, but linux always eventually fails in some way. I have above average knowledge of computers, and still linux cannot work reliably for me. It will never go mainstream until it can work without breaking, and never touching the terminal for 10+ years like MacOS can. As an example, look at the "Switched to linux challenge" Linus Tech Tips did a couple years ago, he tried to install steam and it broke his entire OS. I have never installed anything on Windows or MacOS that has broken my OS. If you want regular users to use linux, things like that should not be possible.

marcosdumay 3y ago
> This is even using the supposedly "reliable" distros like Ubuntu and Mint. You mean the distros with a marketing budget? Confusing those two is a common misconception.
aembleton 3y ago
> and never touching the terminal for 10+ years I think this is key. I'm comfortable in the terminal so it really doesn't bother me and I doubt many days go by where I'm not using it. Linux works for me, but its not for everyone and I still have an old macbook for some photo editing applications.