15 ms·

No idea why you guys put up with this bullshit. I use Safari on macOS, it works great. I use Firefox on my Windows PC, it works great.

eimrine 3y ago
Your jails are working as intended.
- dotcoma 3y ago
  No one is free. Even the birds are chained to the sky. — Bob Dylan
  - eimrine 3y ago
    Birds have no risk to fall down into a tyranny, they have no reason to figth for democracy, they don't even see any targeted ads.
    - dotcoma 3y ago
      > they don't even see any targeted ads. Neither do I. All it takes is Ublock Origin.
    - lozf 3y ago
      They likely would if only they had money to spend. Someone would at least try.
  - AniseAbyss 3y ago
    The best I can do is pirate software and use ad blocking tools. Still a slave but not a paying one.
- thimp 3y ago
  Better a Norwegian prison than a Soviet gulag.
ActionHank 3y ago
Given MS being horribly anti-user these days, monetizing each user to be farmed like cattle and Apple's massive anti-consumer malicious compliance to any legal rulings, more people should be considering Linux. It's fast. It respects the user. Games work beautifully with proton. Most software has an equivalent on Linux if they don't offer their own binaries. More and more I don't understand the desire or need to generate revenue for companies that treat you like dumb cattle.
- dotcoma 3y ago
  Not a SWE here. Used Ubuntu from 2006 to 2011. It used to take some effort, compared to OSX. But if we’re talking Linux vs Windows, I completely agree.
  - jojobas 3y ago
    Ubuntu went a looong way since then. Even debian is not longer scary-scary.
  - ActionHank 3y ago
    I hear you, but they've all moved along in leaps and bounds. Some options if you ever look again - * ElementaryOS(https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/) * PopOS(https://pop.system76.com/ https://pop.system76.com/) * Linux Mint(https://linuxmint.com/ https://linuxmint.com/) * As always, Ubuntu(https://ubuntu.com/ https://ubuntu.com/) All solid, functional, and not treating you like cattle.
    - dotcoma 3y ago
      Thanks. Pretty happy with OSX, and also happy to be spending less time in front of a computer :)
    - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
      Last week my wife got prompted by Ubuntu's automatic software update to install a security update that required signing up to some paid Ubuntu subscription. I'm not sure this is really what it meant (I didn't see the prompt myself), but it was what Ubuntu made her believe. After updating without this "option", all her VirtualBox VMs stopped working (I don't mean to imply that these two issues are linked).
dspillett 3y ago
On this particular issue Firefox-on-windows is unlikely to be a solution. If they can and are doing it to Chrome on Windows they can to Firefox too. It might be more work as Edge doesn't share a codebase with Firefox like it does with Chrome, but unless FF is somehow encrypting everything in a way that blocks MS⁰ it won't be particularly difficult. -- [0] Likely impossible. Even making it difficult enough to slow MS if they had the intention is likely completely impractical.
Dalewyn 3y ago
Because I use computers to do things, and Windows is the right tool for the job in the vast majority of cases. No, please don't suggest Linux or FOSS alternatives. They are all dead on arrival. I need Office, not LibreOffice. I need Photoshop, not GIMP. I need Illustrator, not Inkscape. I want Windows, not Proton. I need a computer, not a tinkerer's toy.
- eimrine 3y ago
  That sounds like an anti-openness manifesto. Pleace hide the source code from me and squeeze as much profits as possible!
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    I don't care if the code is closed or open, because I use computers to do things. Computers are tools to let me achieve things, thusly I care about the results and not about the process (eg: closed vs. open). I don't care to computer either, because that's not what I consider computers to be at my point in life. I use tools, not tool tools.
    - eimrine 3y ago
      > I use tools, not tool tools. You remind me typical pro-Russian men who claim they are non-interesting in politics with no realizing their choice "not to be interested in politics" is a pro-war choice.
    - the_third_wave 3y ago
      > Computers are tools to let me achieve things Computers are tools to run software. Software is what makes (or breaks) the computer a useful tool. A computer without software is just as useful as a lump of pig iron: handy as a paper weight but no more. Closed software which locks your data in its grasp may be OK for some purposes but in the long run it nearly always ends up causing problems - try opening an older Word file in current Word [1] for an example of such. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38906331 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38906331
thimp 3y ago
It's not just the browser, it's the OS as well, at least on Windows 11. Literally everything is optimised to force you to try and use Bing and Edge. If I hit start, I get bing, if I run updates it tries to sell me Bing and Edge. If I use edge it throws me at the microsoft portal all the time and I have to futz around with it to disable CoPilot integration and add extensions to give me a blank new tab page etc. Then I get an update. Oh and next thing I know it's trying to sell me vouchers. And then the other day it ripped off all my Chrome credentials which I keep separate. I don't even know how it did it. The final straw was on my pixel 7a when I opened the outlook app and found there's a fucking garbage feeds and subscriptions tab in it now which just pipes crap to you. I got fed up with it at the start of December last year and rinsed my credit card in the Apple Store. I walked out with an MBP and an iPhone and neither have not yet kicked me in the nuts once. I'm slowly porting my data over at the moment and then I'm chucking this crap on ebay and never touching it again. Well done Microsoft. You burned a 30 year long developer relationship.
neilv 3y ago
> No idea why you guys put up with this bullshit. I use [...] macOS, That's the authoritarian alternative, to the perpetually backstabbing option. Debian Stable is the actually wholesome marriage material. https://www.debian.org/distrib/ https://www.debian.org/distrib/
- devnullbrain 3y ago
  >Debian OK, sure >Stable Masochism
  - marcosdumay 3y ago
    Well, then install the testing version and complain on HN that Linux is broken and won't stay working for long. (Even though the MTBF of Debian testing is at least 5 times larger than Windows.)
    - devnullbrain 3y ago
      It's the other way around. Trying to search for problems with Stable is more difficult because potential fixes require things your OS doesn't have yet.
      - neilv 3y ago
        I haven't much had this problem with Debian Stable. For awhile, there would be a thing with people using, say, JS libraries, and they'd want to Stack Overflow copy&paste something. But the more reckless of those people just ended up bypassing Debian with NPM or some other language-specific package manager. And less-reckless people can decide when they can just use Debian or have to pull select bits of software some other way.

eimrine 3y ago

Your jails are working as intended.

dotcoma 3y ago
No one is free. Even the birds are chained to the sky. — Bob Dylan
- eimrine 3y ago
  Birds have no risk to fall down into a tyranny, they have no reason to figth for democracy, they don't even see any targeted ads.
  - dotcoma 3y ago
    > they don't even see any targeted ads. Neither do I. All it takes is Ublock Origin.
  - lozf 3y ago
    They likely would if only they had money to spend. Someone would at least try.
- AniseAbyss 3y ago
  The best I can do is pirate software and use ad blocking tools. Still a slave but not a paying one.
thimp 3y ago
Better a Norwegian prison than a Soviet gulag.

ActionHank 3y ago

Given MS being horribly anti-user these days, monetizing each user to be farmed like cattle and Apple's massive anti-consumer malicious compliance to any legal rulings, more people should be considering Linux. It's fast. It respects the user. Games work beautifully with proton. Most software has an equivalent on Linux if they don't offer their own binaries. More and more I don't understand the desire or need to generate revenue for companies that treat you like dumb cattle.

dotcoma 3y ago
Not a SWE here. Used Ubuntu from 2006 to 2011. It used to take some effort, compared to OSX. But if we’re talking Linux vs Windows, I completely agree.
- jojobas 3y ago
  Ubuntu went a looong way since then. Even debian is not longer scary-scary.
- ActionHank 3y ago
  I hear you, but they've all moved along in leaps and bounds. Some options if you ever look again - * ElementaryOS(https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/) * PopOS(https://pop.system76.com/ https://pop.system76.com/) * Linux Mint(https://linuxmint.com/ https://linuxmint.com/) * As always, Ubuntu(https://ubuntu.com/ https://ubuntu.com/) All solid, functional, and not treating you like cattle.
  - dotcoma 3y ago
    Thanks. Pretty happy with OSX, and also happy to be spending less time in front of a computer :)
  - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
    Last week my wife got prompted by Ubuntu's automatic software update to install a security update that required signing up to some paid Ubuntu subscription. I'm not sure this is really what it meant (I didn't see the prompt myself), but it was what Ubuntu made her believe. After updating without this "option", all her VirtualBox VMs stopped working (I don't mean to imply that these two issues are linked).

dspillett 3y ago

On this particular issue Firefox-on-windows is unlikely to be a solution. If they can and are doing it to Chrome on Windows they can to Firefox too. It might be more work as Edge doesn't share a codebase with Firefox like it does with Chrome, but unless FF is somehow encrypting everything in a way that blocks MS⁰ it won't be particularly difficult. -- [0] Likely impossible. Even making it difficult enough to slow MS if they had the intention is likely completely impractical.

Dalewyn 3y ago

Because I use computers to do things, and Windows is the right tool for the job in the vast majority of cases. No, please don't suggest Linux or FOSS alternatives. They are all dead on arrival. I need Office, not LibreOffice. I need Photoshop, not GIMP. I need Illustrator, not Inkscape. I want Windows, not Proton. I need a computer, not a tinkerer's toy.

eimrine 3y ago
That sounds like an anti-openness manifesto. Pleace hide the source code from me and squeeze as much profits as possible!
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  I don't care if the code is closed or open, because I use computers to do things. Computers are tools to let me achieve things, thusly I care about the results and not about the process (eg: closed vs. open). I don't care to computer either, because that's not what I consider computers to be at my point in life. I use tools, not tool tools.
  - eimrine 3y ago
    > I use tools, not tool tools. You remind me typical pro-Russian men who claim they are non-interesting in politics with no realizing their choice "not to be interested in politics" is a pro-war choice.
  - the_third_wave 3y ago
    > Computers are tools to let me achieve things Computers are tools to run software. Software is what makes (or breaks) the computer a useful tool. A computer without software is just as useful as a lump of pig iron: handy as a paper weight but no more. Closed software which locks your data in its grasp may be OK for some purposes but in the long run it nearly always ends up causing problems - try opening an older Word file in current Word [1] for an example of such. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38906331 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38906331

thimp 3y ago

It's not just the browser, it's the OS as well, at least on Windows 11. Literally everything is optimised to force you to try and use Bing and Edge. If I hit start, I get bing, if I run updates it tries to sell me Bing and Edge. If I use edge it throws me at the microsoft portal all the time and I have to futz around with it to disable CoPilot integration and add extensions to give me a blank new tab page etc. Then I get an update. Oh and next thing I know it's trying to sell me vouchers. And then the other day it ripped off all my Chrome credentials which I keep separate. I don't even know how it did it. The final straw was on my pixel 7a when I opened the outlook app and found there's a fucking garbage feeds and subscriptions tab in it now which just pipes crap to you. I got fed up with it at the start of December last year and rinsed my credit card in the Apple Store. I walked out with an MBP and an iPhone and neither have not yet kicked me in the nuts once. I'm slowly porting my data over at the moment and then I'm chucking this crap on ebay and never touching it again. Well done Microsoft. You burned a 30 year long developer relationship.

neilv 3y ago

> No idea why you guys put up with this bullshit. I use [...] macOS, That's the authoritarian alternative, to the perpetually backstabbing option. Debian Stable is the actually wholesome marriage material. https://www.debian.org/distrib/ https://www.debian.org/distrib/

devnullbrain 3y ago
>Debian OK, sure >Stable Masochism
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  Well, then install the testing version and complain on HN that Linux is broken and won't stay working for long. (Even though the MTBF of Debian testing is at least 5 times larger than Windows.)
  - devnullbrain 3y ago
    It's the other way around. Trying to search for problems with Stable is more difficult because potential fixes require things your OS doesn't have yet.
    - neilv 3y ago
      I haven't much had this problem with Debian Stable. For awhile, there would be a thing with people using, say, JS libraries, and they'd want to Stack Overflow copy&paste something. But the more reckless of those people just ended up bypassing Debian with NPM or some other language-specific package manager. And less-reckless people can decide when they can just use Debian or have to pull select bits of software some other way.