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I wonder given all this... what the expectations are at Apple from a higher up/board/executive standpoint are Most of Apple offerings are good: Watch iPad M

I wonder given all this... what the expectations are at Apple from a higher up/board/executive standpoint are Most of Apple offerings are good: Watch iPad Mac iPhone services Are they really expecting this to just be a hard problem initially that they get better at over time? When is the last time they launched a "so so" product?

wahnfrieden 3y ago
Tim Apple reportedly overrode the design team on launching it prematurely relative to their typical standards in order to enter the market and begin iterating before waiting too long. It’s the first new product category made under his leadership and he’s eyeing retirement, as context. Btw, don’t forget visionOS 2.0 is just 18 weeks away. (Source: WWDC is every June and every platform gets a version bump, as we saw with watchOS launching in April then getting a 2.0 immediately after at WWDC.)
- Wingy 3y ago
  The watch is a new product category under his leadership isn't it?
  - BOOSTERHIDROGEN 3y ago
    Watch still under Steve, put it in other way, it's last product under his supervision.
    - george_perez 3y ago
      Doesn’t look like it. > Ive began dreaming about an Apple watch just after CEO Steve Jobs’ death in October 2011. He soon brought the idea to Dye and a small group of others in the design studio. https://www.wired.com/2015/04/the-apple-watch/ https://www.wired.com/2015/04/the-apple-watch/
      - wahnfrieden 3y ago
        That is incorrect, or rather, misleading - maybe Ive didn't join the project until 2011, sure, but it began in 2010. Ive didn't lead all design work yet in 2011, he was still just a VP.
  - pulisse 3y ago
    AirPods, too.
    - wahnfrieden 3y ago
      AirPods weren't a new product category, they were an iteration of the Apple EarPods which looked the same, had the same remote features, etc.
      - kstrauser 3y ago
        I highly disagree about that, especially for the Pros with ANC and spatial audio. EarPods were nice wired earphones. AirPods seem like way more of a leap than just EarPods-but-wireless.
        wahnfrieden 3y ago
        If those features defined new product categories, they wouldn't have replaced existing AirPods with "3rd generation" (non-pro) AirPods that have spatial audio and ANC in the upcoming 4th generation. They're iterative features on an existing product category.
- zmmmmm 3y ago
  > It’s the first new product category made under his leadership and he’s eyeing retirement, as context I've been wondering how much this is part of the context here. He may feel some pressure that he hasn't really launched a new major product category from scratch in all his time as CEO and if this has been running 10 years as a project now, that it would be a blemish on his legacy to not get it out the door before he leaves. Perhaps without him there it would even be binned which would be even more pressure to deliver it. Contrary to all that he really seems a bit ambivalent about the device himself, having never allowed himself to be seen publicly using it.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    Apple Watch, HomePod, AppleTV+, Apple News+, AirPods. And I would argue the M-series CPU are pretty major as well.
    - wahnfrieden 3y ago
      Apple Watch began before he became CEO, it wasn't under his direction. He just continued the existing initiative. Wikipedia's citation that the Watch began in 2011 after Steve's death is incorrect. It began in 2010 under Steve's direction after the acquisition of Bob Messerschmidt's Rare Light, which brought hearth rate monitoring tech to Apple. Messerschmidt was assigned a team by Steve. Don't blindly trust Wikipedia, folks... As for the others I just meant platform products, none of those have their own OS until homeOS later this year. None of them defined new product categories for Apple - for instance the AirPods were an iteration on EarPods, not a new product category. Apple was already shipping a home speaker product before HomePod, which was an iterative product without its own software platform for developers. M-series is iterative tech, not a new product category. The Motorola ROKR wasn't an Apple product. But sure HomePod is perhaps Tim Apple's one original new product category before Vision if the 2006 Apple Hi-Fi counts as a distinct product category.
      - threeseed 3y ago
        Discounting genuinely new products because Apple made them nearly 20 years ago seems a bit ridiculous. No one would call the iPhone an existing product just because Apple shipped the iTunes collaboration phone with Motorola.
- crooked-v 3y ago
  > don’t forget visionOS 2.0 is just 18 weeks away Source?
  - tcmart14 3y ago
    Its speculation, but probably reasonable speculation. At WWDC, I think almost every OS version gets an announcement of a major version bump. They will announce the next macOS major version, iOS major version, etc. So it is totally reasonable to suspect they will announce the next major version of visionOS. Edit: But since it is still so new, it could not be until WWDC 2025 that visionOS 2.0 gets announced.
    - wahnfrieden 3y ago
      watchOS 1.0 launched in April and got a 2.0 in June that same year it'll be a beta
epolanski 3y ago
The first two iWatches were borderline pointless/bad. The first two iPhones weren't as innovative as they make them,just more polished than other symbians with cameras and internet, it took off with apps really in third iteration. I think visionpro has lots of opportunities in the next iterations, early users will provide feedback this gen.
- checkyoursudo 3y ago
  Are current watches good? I genuinely don't know and am interested. I hadn't gotten one because I was an early iPhone adopter (Gen 1), but haven't been willing to be an early adopter since then. But I would like a watch, if they are good now.
  - freeone3000 3y ago
    If you want a very small cell phone on your wrist, they are good at that. I’m nit sure what they’re good for , but they can be that.
  - kaonwarb 3y ago
    I find them exceptional for a somewhat narrow range of activities (I love going on a run or hike navigating by my Apple Watch while streaming whatever music I want in the world to my AirPods - no phone, nothing to carry), and only slightly useful for a broad range of other things (notifications, weather, etc - conveniences).
    - Thlom 3y ago
      What I love best with my Apple Watch is that I can respond to Duo/Okta/BankId directly from my watch and don't have to look for my phone or pull it out of my pocket.
  - sarlalian 3y ago
    I'm sure the later ones are also great, but as of Apple Watch 4, they are quite compelling depending on what your needs are. From a fitness / voice assistant button on the wrist, getting notifications without pulling your phone out standpoint the Series 4 and later are all fantastic.
electroly 3y ago
Apple Maps falls in that category. Maps was bad when it came out but after years of effort (and a lot of money), it's pretty good now. That was no small feat given how good Google Maps already was when Apple Maps started.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  In my area (Long Island), Apple Maps works great (better than Google Maps). I hear that it falls down, in rural areas, though. [edit] Looks like I pissed in someone’s cereal. Didn’t mean to, but different strokes, and all that… I was just recounting actual personal experience, which, I suppose, isn’t popular, hereabouts. Just for context, I have been writing Apple programs, since 1986. I am totally committed to their products, and their vision (although I have no opinion, –yet– on their Vision), and have every right to be critical. Those of us that have been on the ride for that long, have seen a very bumpy road.
  - Fomite 3y ago
    In my particular rural area, Apple Maps knows the street I live on exists. Google Maps still needs a call to delivery people to explain to them that their map is lying to them.
  - YoumuChan 3y ago
    I gave Apple Map a second chance after hearing good things about it recently. But it gave me a route where I need to turn left right after taking a right-turn ramp, except that the left turning line are separated by road dividers before the exit of the ramp. So I would need to either go wrong direction and do a 180, or bulldoze the dividers. As a comparison, Google Map never gave me that route in the past. This happened in a moderately sized town so I guess I will still stick to Google Map for now.
  - jsheard 3y ago
    I just checked my area in Apple Maps out of interest and my own house, which I've lived in for longer than Apple Maps has existed, is listed as belonging to a business I've never heard of. The only actually existing business I can find with that name is at the opposite side of the country. Not a great first impression. Also while I can view Apple Maps via a third party like DuckDuckGo, you can only report a map issue through an Apple device, so I guess it's staying wrong.
Twisell 3y ago
The watch first 1-3 generations were clearly "so so".
outofpaper 3y ago
Newton and to a much much lesser extent the first iPod and iPhone. But really the Newton while a product that I love and a super profitable line was the last time Apple created something that had so many rough edges.
lambdasquirrel 3y ago
So-so in what way? This product is clearly a toy. Which is to say that it is genuinely new. Maybe like how the Apple II was when it first came out. PCs were quite expensive back then too, if I remember correctly. This really will take time. All the important technological things were toys before they became tools.
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
The first iPhone was pretty terrible. I couldn't get my Marketing peers to take it seriously (which they came to regret). The first Watch was awful. I love my Series 8. Don't get me started on the first Mac...
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > The first iPhone was pretty terrible. I definitely do not think that opinion was widespread. If anything I think that the biggest discussed shortcoming of the first iPhone was that it was only available on AT&T.
  - herval 3y ago
    It was usable on any other network, I had one and it wasn’t AT&T locked Compared to all the smartphones of the time, it was a slow toy with no apps and a 2G connection that was completely worthless It looked nice though, and eventually it got an app store (unnoficially first), and the overall UX was a clear winner (nobody believed touch screens would ever replace blackberry style devices!)
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      https://appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/10/apple_att_originally_agreed_to_iphone_exclusivity_until_2012 https://appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/10/apple_att_origina... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_iPhone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_iPhone > When Apple announced the iPhone on January 9, 2007,[38] it was sold only with AT&T (formerly Cingular) contracts in the United States.[32] After 18 months of negotiations, Steve Jobs reached an agreement with the wireless division of AT&T[39] to be the iPhone's exclusive carrier. Consumers were unable to use any other carrier without unlocking their device.
      - makeitdouble 3y ago
        A few people had it in Japan connected to docomo as a GSM phone. I suppose there were workarounds for other carriers as well. I don't know how they did it, but "life finds a way" ?
jedberg 3y ago
> When is the last time they launched a "so so" product? All of them! The first version of the iPhone, iPad, iPod, watch, AirPods... They all had similar reviews. "Seems like a tech preview, not really ready for general use, too expensive", etc.
- jamespo 3y ago
  First iPod and iPad were fine.
  - homefree 3y ago
    The first iPod had a wheel that physically moved and would get dirt and stuff stuck in it/have issues. The HDD would also freeze up. It was better than alternatives at the time, but it wasn't really until the click wheel it got really refined. The first iPad was similarly expensive, thick and underpowered. It wasn't until a couple generations in that it was good.
    - jamespo 3y ago
      They were both significantly better than alternatives and didn't cost 7x as much as this does vs meta quest 3.
  - jedberg 3y ago
    The first iPod's wheel would break and skip all the time. And so would the hard drive. And the OS was really simple, and the syncing was terrible. The first iPad was ok only because it truly was "just a bigger iPhone". But they didn't really make features that were unique to the iPad and took advantage of its bigger screen for a few versions afterwards.
    - jamespo 3y ago
      The os was simple, it played music, that's it?
      - 3y ago
leoc 3y ago
Watch was cute but fussy and a little pointless when it first came out, and only gradually became really compelling.

wahnfrieden 3y ago

Tim Apple reportedly overrode the design team on launching it prematurely relative to their typical standards in order to enter the market and begin iterating before waiting too long. It’s the first new product category made under his leadership and he’s eyeing retirement, as context. Btw, don’t forget visionOS 2.0 is just 18 weeks away. (Source: WWDC is every June and every platform gets a version bump, as we saw with watchOS launching in April then getting a 2.0 immediately after at WWDC.)

Wingy 3y ago
The watch is a new product category under his leadership isn't it?
- BOOSTERHIDROGEN 3y ago
  Watch still under Steve, put it in other way, it's last product under his supervision.
  - george_perez 3y ago
    Doesn’t look like it. > Ive began dreaming about an Apple watch just after CEO Steve Jobs’ death in October 2011. He soon brought the idea to Dye and a small group of others in the design studio. https://www.wired.com/2015/04/the-apple-watch/ https://www.wired.com/2015/04/the-apple-watch/
    - wahnfrieden 3y ago
      That is incorrect, or rather, misleading - maybe Ive didn't join the project until 2011, sure, but it began in 2010. Ive didn't lead all design work yet in 2011, he was still just a VP.
- pulisse 3y ago
  AirPods, too.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    AirPods weren't a new product category, they were an iteration of the Apple EarPods which looked the same, had the same remote features, etc.
    - kstrauser 3y ago
      I highly disagree about that, especially for the Pros with ANC and spatial audio. EarPods were nice wired earphones. AirPods seem like way more of a leap than just EarPods-but-wireless.
      - wahnfrieden 3y ago
        If those features defined new product categories, they wouldn't have replaced existing AirPods with "3rd generation" (non-pro) AirPods that have spatial audio and ANC in the upcoming 4th generation. They're iterative features on an existing product category.
zmmmmm 3y ago
> It’s the first new product category made under his leadership and he’s eyeing retirement, as context I've been wondering how much this is part of the context here. He may feel some pressure that he hasn't really launched a new major product category from scratch in all his time as CEO and if this has been running 10 years as a project now, that it would be a blemish on his legacy to not get it out the door before he leaves. Perhaps without him there it would even be binned which would be even more pressure to deliver it. Contrary to all that he really seems a bit ambivalent about the device himself, having never allowed himself to be seen publicly using it.
- threeseed 3y ago
  Apple Watch, HomePod, AppleTV+, Apple News+, AirPods. And I would argue the M-series CPU are pretty major as well.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    Apple Watch began before he became CEO, it wasn't under his direction. He just continued the existing initiative. Wikipedia's citation that the Watch began in 2011 after Steve's death is incorrect. It began in 2010 under Steve's direction after the acquisition of Bob Messerschmidt's Rare Light, which brought hearth rate monitoring tech to Apple. Messerschmidt was assigned a team by Steve. Don't blindly trust Wikipedia, folks... As for the others I just meant platform products, none of those have their own OS until homeOS later this year. None of them defined new product categories for Apple - for instance the AirPods were an iteration on EarPods, not a new product category. Apple was already shipping a home speaker product before HomePod, which was an iterative product without its own software platform for developers. M-series is iterative tech, not a new product category. The Motorola ROKR wasn't an Apple product. But sure HomePod is perhaps Tim Apple's one original new product category before Vision if the 2006 Apple Hi-Fi counts as a distinct product category.
    - threeseed 3y ago
      Discounting genuinely new products because Apple made them nearly 20 years ago seems a bit ridiculous. No one would call the iPhone an existing product just because Apple shipped the iTunes collaboration phone with Motorola.
crooked-v 3y ago
> don’t forget visionOS 2.0 is just 18 weeks away Source?
- tcmart14 3y ago
  Its speculation, but probably reasonable speculation. At WWDC, I think almost every OS version gets an announcement of a major version bump. They will announce the next macOS major version, iOS major version, etc. So it is totally reasonable to suspect they will announce the next major version of visionOS. Edit: But since it is still so new, it could not be until WWDC 2025 that visionOS 2.0 gets announced.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    watchOS 1.0 launched in April and got a 2.0 in June that same year it'll be a beta

epolanski 3y ago

The first two iWatches were borderline pointless/bad. The first two iPhones weren't as innovative as they make them,just more polished than other symbians with cameras and internet, it took off with apps really in third iteration. I think visionpro has lots of opportunities in the next iterations, early users will provide feedback this gen.

checkyoursudo 3y ago
Are current watches good? I genuinely don't know and am interested. I hadn't gotten one because I was an early iPhone adopter (Gen 1), but haven't been willing to be an early adopter since then. But I would like a watch, if they are good now.
- freeone3000 3y ago
  If you want a very small cell phone on your wrist, they are good at that. I’m nit sure what they’re good for , but they can be that.
- kaonwarb 3y ago
  I find them exceptional for a somewhat narrow range of activities (I love going on a run or hike navigating by my Apple Watch while streaming whatever music I want in the world to my AirPods - no phone, nothing to carry), and only slightly useful for a broad range of other things (notifications, weather, etc - conveniences).
  - Thlom 3y ago
    What I love best with my Apple Watch is that I can respond to Duo/Okta/BankId directly from my watch and don't have to look for my phone or pull it out of my pocket.
- sarlalian 3y ago
  I'm sure the later ones are also great, but as of Apple Watch 4, they are quite compelling depending on what your needs are. From a fitness / voice assistant button on the wrist, getting notifications without pulling your phone out standpoint the Series 4 and later are all fantastic.

electroly 3y ago

Apple Maps falls in that category. Maps was bad when it came out but after years of effort (and a lot of money), it's pretty good now. That was no small feat given how good Google Maps already was when Apple Maps started.

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
In my area (Long Island), Apple Maps works great (better than Google Maps). I hear that it falls down, in rural areas, though. [edit] Looks like I pissed in someone’s cereal. Didn’t mean to, but different strokes, and all that… I was just recounting actual personal experience, which, I suppose, isn’t popular, hereabouts. Just for context, I have been writing Apple programs, since 1986. I am totally committed to their products, and their vision (although I have no opinion, –yet– on their Vision), and have every right to be critical. Those of us that have been on the ride for that long, have seen a very bumpy road.
- Fomite 3y ago
  In my particular rural area, Apple Maps knows the street I live on exists. Google Maps still needs a call to delivery people to explain to them that their map is lying to them.
- YoumuChan 3y ago
  I gave Apple Map a second chance after hearing good things about it recently. But it gave me a route where I need to turn left right after taking a right-turn ramp, except that the left turning line are separated by road dividers before the exit of the ramp. So I would need to either go wrong direction and do a 180, or bulldoze the dividers. As a comparison, Google Map never gave me that route in the past. This happened in a moderately sized town so I guess I will still stick to Google Map for now.
- jsheard 3y ago
  I just checked my area in Apple Maps out of interest and my own house, which I've lived in for longer than Apple Maps has existed, is listed as belonging to a business I've never heard of. The only actually existing business I can find with that name is at the opposite side of the country. Not a great first impression. Also while I can view Apple Maps via a third party like DuckDuckGo, you can only report a map issue through an Apple device, so I guess it's staying wrong.

Twisell 3y ago

The watch first 1-3 generations were clearly "so so".

outofpaper 3y ago

Newton and to a much much lesser extent the first iPod and iPhone. But really the Newton while a product that I love and a super profitable line was the last time Apple created something that had so many rough edges.

lambdasquirrel 3y ago

So-so in what way? This product is clearly a toy. Which is to say that it is genuinely new. Maybe like how the Apple II was when it first came out. PCs were quite expensive back then too, if I remember correctly. This really will take time. All the important technological things were toys before they became tools.

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

The first iPhone was pretty terrible. I couldn't get my Marketing peers to take it seriously (which they came to regret). The first Watch was awful. I love my Series 8. Don't get me started on the first Mac...

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> The first iPhone was pretty terrible. I definitely do not think that opinion was widespread. If anything I think that the biggest discussed shortcoming of the first iPhone was that it was only available on AT&T.
- herval 3y ago
  It was usable on any other network, I had one and it wasn’t AT&T locked Compared to all the smartphones of the time, it was a slow toy with no apps and a 2G connection that was completely worthless It looked nice though, and eventually it got an app store (unnoficially first), and the overall UX was a clear winner (nobody believed touch screens would ever replace blackberry style devices!)
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/10/apple_att_originally_agreed_to_iphone_exclusivity_until_2012 https://appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/10/apple_att_origina... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_iPhone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_iPhone > When Apple announced the iPhone on January 9, 2007,[38] it was sold only with AT&T (formerly Cingular) contracts in the United States.[32] After 18 months of negotiations, Steve Jobs reached an agreement with the wireless division of AT&T[39] to be the iPhone's exclusive carrier. Consumers were unable to use any other carrier without unlocking their device.
    - makeitdouble 3y ago
      A few people had it in Japan connected to docomo as a GSM phone. I suppose there were workarounds for other carriers as well. I don't know how they did it, but "life finds a way" ?

jedberg 3y ago

> When is the last time they launched a "so so" product? All of them! The first version of the iPhone, iPad, iPod, watch, AirPods... They all had similar reviews. "Seems like a tech preview, not really ready for general use, too expensive", etc.

jamespo 3y ago
First iPod and iPad were fine.
- homefree 3y ago
  The first iPod had a wheel that physically moved and would get dirt and stuff stuck in it/have issues. The HDD would also freeze up. It was better than alternatives at the time, but it wasn't really until the click wheel it got really refined. The first iPad was similarly expensive, thick and underpowered. It wasn't until a couple generations in that it was good.
  - jamespo 3y ago
    They were both significantly better than alternatives and didn't cost 7x as much as this does vs meta quest 3.
- jedberg 3y ago
  The first iPod's wheel would break and skip all the time. And so would the hard drive. And the OS was really simple, and the syncing was terrible. The first iPad was ok only because it truly was "just a bigger iPhone". But they didn't really make features that were unique to the iPad and took advantage of its bigger screen for a few versions afterwards.
  - jamespo 3y ago
    The os was simple, it played music, that's it?
    - 3y ago

leoc 3y ago

Watch was cute but fussy and a little pointless when it first came out, and only gradually became really compelling.