5 ms·

Google Cloud made $864M in profit in a single quarter, more than ever before. Google Bets lost $863M in the same period, much less than ever before.

jeffbee 3y ago
I wonder if that is good news. You can look at it either as they slowed how much money they pour into the moonshots incinerator, or they stopped investing in potential unicorn lines of business.
- Kluggy 3y ago
  I think they have proved that it's a incinerator at this point.
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    Well, a lot of the money goes into Waymo which is just ramping into revenue service. With the filing they submitted last week, they want to serve all of Silicon Valley and all of Los Angeles County, which is more than an order of magnitude expansion in their market. Waymo might be a real investment and not just an emergency profit reducer.
  - disillusioned 3y ago
    Waymo _might_ be the sole survivor here... they are ABSOLUTELY trying their damndest with it. It's remarkable to not go a single day without seeing a driverless Waymo doing its thing. (I live in Central Phoenix, they're _everywhere_.) The core concept is being proven pretty well, in markets with good weather and good roads at least... whether they can achieve some sort of critical mass that allows them to recoup any of the investment, even on a single capitalized vehicle... who knows. I've heard each Jag costs ~$250k fully loaded... that's a lot of ~$14-on-average trips before breakeven, and obviously the trips aren't free. That all being said, riding in one feels like the actual future, and if they close in on this first-mover advantage and keep on keeping on, and strengthen their Uber integration, and open in more and more markets... there's a real chance they establish themselves and make this thing actually capture a significant portion of the trip economy. That being said, it's not generalized, so opening markets is expensive because they're all individually trained for each mile of road in the market, I expect they'll be functionally useless in bad winters (but that's not a dealbreaker, per se), and those operating expenses remain high. Though I do expect we'll begin to see those lower, now that they're so deep into the proof of the concept. (They're finally starting highway driving here in PHX, which is really the last hill to climb.)
    - Workaccount2 3y ago
      I always imagined Google licensing the tech as opposed to spinning up a fully fledged national taxi service.
      - clhodapp 3y ago
        Interesting. I could imagine Uber mortgaging their whole market cap to acquire Waymo as a lifeline to staying relevant in the long term. They would essentially be "buying" what has always been their long-term product vision.
      - rogerbinns 3y ago
        The most valuable owner in this space is whoever you communicate with to tell them where you want to go. They get to offer you a price, they get to offer you alternative destinations, and they get to offer you "deals". For example that means that a different supermarket can make an offer you come to them instead, or you can be offered a different price should a different route be taken, a ride share happen, a journey delayed or brought forward, and numerous other possibilities. It isn't too dissimilar to typing what you are interested in to a search engine. That will be extremely lucrative. But for it to work, that entity will have to have ultimate control over where the vehicle goes. Everybody is going to want to have that ultimate control, and not cede it to someone else. That would make licensing not really work out since Google would retain control.
        resolutebat 3y ago
        Color me skeptical, but I've never gotten in a car without having decided my destination first. I don't go to "any supermarket", I go to Supermarket X because they have the goods I need at a price I accept or the best promos that week or whatever. If letting your rideshare company decide your destination was really a thing, why wouldn't Uber be doing it already be doing it with human drivers?
        d0gsg0w00f 3y ago
        > I've never gotten in a car without having decided my destination first. Not yet... > If letting your rideshare company decide your destination was really a thing, why wouldn't Uber be doing it already be doing it with human drivers? Because Uber isn't an advertising company. They're still chasing fares like scrubs
  - TulliusCicero 3y ago
    Waymo seems like it'll go the distance. Clear market leader in the US, and it doesn't seem particularly close, even if it's taken them (and everyone else) longer than expected to start scaling. Cruise attempted to just start launching before the tech was really finished and it backfired horribly. Tesla is still doing Elon things, looks like the tech is mostly spinning its wheels as they work on yet another hardware revision that'll definitely handle self-driving this time.
- javiramos 3y ago
  What are some promising Google moonshots apart from Waymo?
  - xnx 3y ago
    Drone delivery: https://wing.com/ https://wing.com/
    - dekhn 3y ago
      there is so far only a tiny market for drone delivery and it seems like it would be unlikely to grow into a multibillion dollar business. Their competitors (who have more experience with shipping physical things) are also evaluating this with mixed success.
- foota 3y ago
  Most of the difference is explained by an increase in revenue while holding expenses constant: "Other Bets, which includes the Waymo self-driving car business and the Verily life sciences unit, reported revenue of $657 million, up from $226 million the year prior. Its loss narrowed to $863 million from $1.24 billion." So revenue up 400 million, and losses dropped by 400 million.
- rdsubhas 3y ago
  I guess the point being made by that comment is, it could be an accounting / book-shifting trick.
  - jsnell 3y ago
    That theory doesn't make any sense. Both measures are moving in the same direction (i.e. both units are becoming more profitable). If it was some kind of revenue shifting trick, the numbers would be moving in opposite directions.
morkalork 3y ago
Does that mean we'll stop seeing all the alarmist posts about how one should never build on GCP?
- laverya 3y ago
  Only when they buy back their domains business from Squarespace.
- badrequest 3y ago
  Those posts are an HN staple, this place wouldn't be the same without it. I think I've been using GCP longer than most people's projections of how long it would last.
- stefan_ 3y ago
  Did you know the IBM cloud is the biggest in the world? Public companies can structure their business however they prefer. If the story needs to be that Cloud is growing and profitable on a numbers sheet, you need no more than the finance geeks to make it happen.
- snotrockets 3y ago
  If revenue is the only reason to choose a provider, we would all buy Oracle.
scarface_74 3y ago
$864 million is really a nothingburger for Google or any company Google’s size compared to Azure or AWS.
tibbydudeza 3y ago
Thomas Kurian is awesome - trained by Larry Ellison no doubt :).
- hiddencost 3y ago
  The most consistent thing I hear in the hallways is "I really hope they don't make TK the CEO." People in cloud are profoundly unhappy. It's scary.
  - VirusNewbie 3y ago
    I work in GCP, I don't get the sense that people are unhappy here. I think it's more likely that GCP, unlike the rest of google, is more of an amalgamation of many corporate cultures, (both good and bad). A little bit more Amazon/Oracle, a little less traditional 'Google'. I think most people work 45 hours a week. I don't see anyone slacking off. But it's not a death march, it pays well, there are tons of perks still. shrug It's not some magical fantasy land that some people make google out to be, but it's a nice job with interesting problems, smart coworkers, and it pays well.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      > I think it's more likely that GCP, unlike the rest of google, is more of an amalgamation of many corporate cultures, (both good and bad). You don't understand why people fear the culture changing to something else? Most people there like the Google work culture, of course they would fear the culture becoming more like Microsoft or Oracle. When I worked at Google I had no deadlines, full control over what I do during my work days, full ability to prioritize different projects or help people get things done if they ask etc. If that suddenly changed it would feel horrible, as you can understand, if you are used to a typical work culture maybe you don't see it but if you are used to the typical Google one they at least had before then it is a massive owngrade.
      - VirusNewbie 3y ago
        Just to clarify, I have full control of what I work on, a lot of say in my OKRs and more freedom than anywhere else I've worked in my almost 20 year career. However, Cloud seems pretty intent on shipping and meeting deadlines so if we commit, I do feel pressure to make that deadline.
bradhe 3y ago
What the heck is Google Bets?
- addaon 3y ago
  When Google renamed to Alphabet, the pun was that it was an umbrella company covering those parts of the business that had exceptional financial return – mostly Ads – and the "long bets," some of which would provide future growth as the established business saturated, and some of which would fizzle – think X. The established businesses would saturate the risky investments, giving a long term growth strategy. Market beating returns: Alpha. Long bets – Bet. Alphabet.

jeffbee 3y ago

I wonder if that is good news. You can look at it either as they slowed how much money they pour into the moonshots incinerator, or they stopped investing in potential unicorn lines of business.

Kluggy 3y ago
I think they have proved that it's a incinerator at this point.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Well, a lot of the money goes into Waymo which is just ramping into revenue service. With the filing they submitted last week, they want to serve all of Silicon Valley and all of Los Angeles County, which is more than an order of magnitude expansion in their market. Waymo might be a real investment and not just an emergency profit reducer.
- disillusioned 3y ago
  Waymo _might_ be the sole survivor here... they are ABSOLUTELY trying their damndest with it. It's remarkable to not go a single day without seeing a driverless Waymo doing its thing. (I live in Central Phoenix, they're _everywhere_.) The core concept is being proven pretty well, in markets with good weather and good roads at least... whether they can achieve some sort of critical mass that allows them to recoup any of the investment, even on a single capitalized vehicle... who knows. I've heard each Jag costs ~$250k fully loaded... that's a lot of ~$14-on-average trips before breakeven, and obviously the trips aren't free. That all being said, riding in one feels like the actual future, and if they close in on this first-mover advantage and keep on keeping on, and strengthen their Uber integration, and open in more and more markets... there's a real chance they establish themselves and make this thing actually capture a significant portion of the trip economy. That being said, it's not generalized, so opening markets is expensive because they're all individually trained for each mile of road in the market, I expect they'll be functionally useless in bad winters (but that's not a dealbreaker, per se), and those operating expenses remain high. Though I do expect we'll begin to see those lower, now that they're so deep into the proof of the concept. (They're finally starting highway driving here in PHX, which is really the last hill to climb.)
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    I always imagined Google licensing the tech as opposed to spinning up a fully fledged national taxi service.
    - clhodapp 3y ago
      Interesting. I could imagine Uber mortgaging their whole market cap to acquire Waymo as a lifeline to staying relevant in the long term. They would essentially be "buying" what has always been their long-term product vision.
    - rogerbinns 3y ago
      The most valuable owner in this space is whoever you communicate with to tell them where you want to go. They get to offer you a price, they get to offer you alternative destinations, and they get to offer you "deals". For example that means that a different supermarket can make an offer you come to them instead, or you can be offered a different price should a different route be taken, a ride share happen, a journey delayed or brought forward, and numerous other possibilities. It isn't too dissimilar to typing what you are interested in to a search engine. That will be extremely lucrative. But for it to work, that entity will have to have ultimate control over where the vehicle goes. Everybody is going to want to have that ultimate control, and not cede it to someone else. That would make licensing not really work out since Google would retain control.
      - resolutebat 3y ago
        Color me skeptical, but I've never gotten in a car without having decided my destination first. I don't go to "any supermarket", I go to Supermarket X because they have the goods I need at a price I accept or the best promos that week or whatever. If letting your rideshare company decide your destination was really a thing, why wouldn't Uber be doing it already be doing it with human drivers?
        d0gsg0w00f 3y ago
        > I've never gotten in a car without having decided my destination first. Not yet... > If letting your rideshare company decide your destination was really a thing, why wouldn't Uber be doing it already be doing it with human drivers? Because Uber isn't an advertising company. They're still chasing fares like scrubs
- TulliusCicero 3y ago
  Waymo seems like it'll go the distance. Clear market leader in the US, and it doesn't seem particularly close, even if it's taken them (and everyone else) longer than expected to start scaling. Cruise attempted to just start launching before the tech was really finished and it backfired horribly. Tesla is still doing Elon things, looks like the tech is mostly spinning its wheels as they work on yet another hardware revision that'll definitely handle self-driving this time.
javiramos 3y ago
What are some promising Google moonshots apart from Waymo?
- xnx 3y ago
  Drone delivery: https://wing.com/ https://wing.com/
  - dekhn 3y ago
    there is so far only a tiny market for drone delivery and it seems like it would be unlikely to grow into a multibillion dollar business. Their competitors (who have more experience with shipping physical things) are also evaluating this with mixed success.
foota 3y ago
Most of the difference is explained by an increase in revenue while holding expenses constant: "Other Bets, which includes the Waymo self-driving car business and the Verily life sciences unit, reported revenue of $657 million, up from $226 million the year prior. Its loss narrowed to $863 million from $1.24 billion." So revenue up 400 million, and losses dropped by 400 million.
rdsubhas 3y ago
I guess the point being made by that comment is, it could be an accounting / book-shifting trick.
- jsnell 3y ago
  That theory doesn't make any sense. Both measures are moving in the same direction (i.e. both units are becoming more profitable). If it was some kind of revenue shifting trick, the numbers would be moving in opposite directions.

morkalork 3y ago

Does that mean we'll stop seeing all the alarmist posts about how one should never build on GCP?

laverya 3y ago
Only when they buy back their domains business from Squarespace.
badrequest 3y ago
Those posts are an HN staple, this place wouldn't be the same without it. I think I've been using GCP longer than most people's projections of how long it would last.
stefan_ 3y ago
Did you know the IBM cloud is the biggest in the world? Public companies can structure their business however they prefer. If the story needs to be that Cloud is growing and profitable on a numbers sheet, you need no more than the finance geeks to make it happen.
snotrockets 3y ago
If revenue is the only reason to choose a provider, we would all buy Oracle.

scarface_74 3y ago

$864 million is really a nothingburger for Google or any company Google’s size compared to Azure or AWS.

tibbydudeza 3y ago

Thomas Kurian is awesome - trained by Larry Ellison no doubt :).

hiddencost 3y ago
The most consistent thing I hear in the hallways is "I really hope they don't make TK the CEO." People in cloud are profoundly unhappy. It's scary.
- VirusNewbie 3y ago
  I work in GCP, I don't get the sense that people are unhappy here. I think it's more likely that GCP, unlike the rest of google, is more of an amalgamation of many corporate cultures, (both good and bad). A little bit more Amazon/Oracle, a little less traditional 'Google'. I think most people work 45 hours a week. I don't see anyone slacking off. But it's not a death march, it pays well, there are tons of perks still. shrug It's not some magical fantasy land that some people make google out to be, but it's a nice job with interesting problems, smart coworkers, and it pays well.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    > I think it's more likely that GCP, unlike the rest of google, is more of an amalgamation of many corporate cultures, (both good and bad). You don't understand why people fear the culture changing to something else? Most people there like the Google work culture, of course they would fear the culture becoming more like Microsoft or Oracle. When I worked at Google I had no deadlines, full control over what I do during my work days, full ability to prioritize different projects or help people get things done if they ask etc. If that suddenly changed it would feel horrible, as you can understand, if you are used to a typical work culture maybe you don't see it but if you are used to the typical Google one they at least had before then it is a massive owngrade.
    - VirusNewbie 3y ago
      Just to clarify, I have full control of what I work on, a lot of say in my OKRs and more freedom than anywhere else I've worked in my almost 20 year career. However, Cloud seems pretty intent on shipping and meeting deadlines so if we commit, I do feel pressure to make that deadline.

bradhe 3y ago

What the heck is Google Bets?

addaon 3y ago
When Google renamed to Alphabet, the pun was that it was an umbrella company covering those parts of the business that had exceptional financial return – mostly Ads – and the "long bets," some of which would provide future growth as the established business saturated, and some of which would fizzle – think X. The established businesses would saturate the risky investments, giving a long term growth strategy. Market beating returns: Alpha. Long bets – Bet. Alphabet.