4 ms·

Underlying a lot of these discussions is the assumption that there is a future where this is an actually useful, mass-market device. I'm still not convinced thi

Underlying a lot of these discussions is the assumption that there is a future where this is an actually useful, mass-market device. I'm still not convinced this is true. For example, "killer apps/content" never arrived for 3D TVs and they have largely disappeared from the market. Same with various "waggling" input technologies like the Wiimote and Kinect. There were some compelling uses, like Wii Sports, but these were pretty limited and many other uses of these in games was a case of Nintendo shoehorning the technology into the game. I think the best pessimist argument is the one offered by Folding Ideas in his metaverse video[1]: Text is really, really useful, and a virtual 3D space is not a good environment for either creating or consuming textual content. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiZhdpLXZ8Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiZhdpLXZ8Q

jayd16 3y ago
>Same with various "waggling" input technologies like the Wiimote and Kinect. Hasn't VR taken over waggle? I don't think you can say its disappeared when the VR install base is in the 10s of millions.
- dougmwne 3y ago
  Yeah, the Quest seems to be the spiritual successor to Wii sports. It’s the closest thing you can buy to that 2006 experience. The long dream of wielding a lightsaber on the Wii was finally realized on the Quest, to a quite satisfactory level. And yet, from a gaming perspective, we still have to crack force feedback and natural locomotion before we have a holodeck. Maybe in 20 more years.
Vegenoid 3y ago
I see headsets like this as a way to have multiple, large, monitors that go away as soon as you aren't using them. After having a big dual-monitor setup for years, about a year and a half ago I got rid of them and work with just my laptop's display. I do this so that my desk doesn't have to have monitors on it, and is more conducive to artistic work and mechanical tinkering. I don't miss multiple monitors so much, but I do often wish for a larger screen. Not enough to put one in my space, though. That's where my interest in the Vision Pro lies - simply a way to project large, high-fidelity, 2d screens.
- nkrisc 3y ago
  I’d rather have small monitors than wear a headset while working. For less than this headset, I can buy an Ergotron arm and some monitors and have multiple large monitors that have zero footprint on my desk. No, I can’t take my setup with me when I go somewhere, but I don’t want to. I have a hard time seeing this become a mass market device. It’ll have its adherents and enthusiasts, but personally find it difficult to imagine even wanting one, let alone using it. But what do I know, I thought the iPad was goofy. Though I never did end up replacing my gen 2 iPad. Realized I didn’t need it.
- cruano 3y ago
  Have you considered monitor arms to just kinda chuck your monitors out of the way after you are done using them ? I'm on the same boat as you, but ended up just getting a long table so I can move to the empty side when I need it.
  - Vegenoid 3y ago
    Yes, my monitors when I had them were on arms - they wouldn't work great in my current setup due to its density, and the things I've put around the desk. I certainly could make adjustments to accommodate a monitor - I just don't want to, and would love for there to be a way to not have to and still get to use a large display.
- pquki4 3y ago
  I used to think the same, but now I don't see these headsets replacing monitors/TVs any time soon. I don't have a TV at my small apartment but do have two 27 in monitors. Sometimes I wish I had enough space for a sofa and 55+ in TV for movies and shows. And maybe headsets will solve the problem, maybe I don't even need those monitors any more. Now? I realize I don't need multiple monitors, 2 is enough. (4k is definitely better than 1080p and 2 is better than 1, but I don't think I can properly utilize a third monitor.) And these are good monitors -- not Pro Display XDR good but still premium 4k monitors -- that have been around for years and I'll keep using them until they die. And about movies -- I have tried using the Quest 2/3 to watch movies. It is usable, and apps even provide "scenes" that make you feel you are in a theater. Do I want to wear them and watch movies on a fake 100" screen? No, for obvious reasons (comfort). If the day comes when they are light, comfortable to wear, allow very good passthrough and actually do a better job than my 4k screens, I'll take another look.
crooked-v 3y ago
The "killer app" here is to have an infinity-sized 'screen' for anything the average user was already going to do with an iPad or Apple TV. The hardware's just not good enough yet, in terms of lightness and comfort, for the average user to put up with as more than a novelty.
- iLoveOncall 3y ago
  The extreme majority of users is perfectly happy with two 24" monitors (actually, the extreme majority is happy with a single 13" monitor). "Infinite monitor space" isn't something that will sell a large enough numbers of headsets to prevent the cancellation of the next iteration.
- tsimionescu 3y ago
  Do you think it's plausible the hardware will ever be good enough? People aren't really that happy wearing even vision eyeglasses, and I don't see any realistic chance we will ever be able to have something with the capabilities of the Vision Pro in a form factor as small and light as eyeglasses.
fennecbutt 3y ago
I mean it's the same problem for a lot of stuff, build it and they will come. Apple is super naive to think that they can just jump into this space and yet end up with a polished product (ie Apple's selling point). I see on scifi all the time where someone flicks/flings a video playing on a device to move it to a larger display surface and it kills me that we actually have the technology to do stuff like this right now...but because every company works in their own interests/don't work together to create standards we don't get to have fun use of tech like that.
nottorp 3y ago
> For example, "killer apps/content" never arrived for 3D TVs and they have largely disappeared from the market. I'm still full of myself for postponing getting a 3D TV enough times that the technology died. > Same with various "waggling" input technologies like the Wiimote and Kinect. ... but I have a PS Move gathering dust somewhere. Which I even preordered.

jayd16 3y ago

>Same with various "waggling" input technologies like the Wiimote and Kinect. Hasn't VR taken over waggle? I don't think you can say its disappeared when the VR install base is in the 10s of millions.

dougmwne 3y ago
Yeah, the Quest seems to be the spiritual successor to Wii sports. It’s the closest thing you can buy to that 2006 experience. The long dream of wielding a lightsaber on the Wii was finally realized on the Quest, to a quite satisfactory level. And yet, from a gaming perspective, we still have to crack force feedback and natural locomotion before we have a holodeck. Maybe in 20 more years.

Vegenoid 3y ago

I see headsets like this as a way to have multiple, large, monitors that go away as soon as you aren't using them. After having a big dual-monitor setup for years, about a year and a half ago I got rid of them and work with just my laptop's display. I do this so that my desk doesn't have to have monitors on it, and is more conducive to artistic work and mechanical tinkering. I don't miss multiple monitors so much, but I do often wish for a larger screen. Not enough to put one in my space, though. That's where my interest in the Vision Pro lies - simply a way to project large, high-fidelity, 2d screens.

nkrisc 3y ago
I’d rather have small monitors than wear a headset while working. For less than this headset, I can buy an Ergotron arm and some monitors and have multiple large monitors that have zero footprint on my desk. No, I can’t take my setup with me when I go somewhere, but I don’t want to. I have a hard time seeing this become a mass market device. It’ll have its adherents and enthusiasts, but personally find it difficult to imagine even wanting one, let alone using it. But what do I know, I thought the iPad was goofy. Though I never did end up replacing my gen 2 iPad. Realized I didn’t need it.
cruano 3y ago
Have you considered monitor arms to just kinda chuck your monitors out of the way after you are done using them ? I'm on the same boat as you, but ended up just getting a long table so I can move to the empty side when I need it.
- Vegenoid 3y ago
  Yes, my monitors when I had them were on arms - they wouldn't work great in my current setup due to its density, and the things I've put around the desk. I certainly could make adjustments to accommodate a monitor - I just don't want to, and would love for there to be a way to not have to and still get to use a large display.
pquki4 3y ago
I used to think the same, but now I don't see these headsets replacing monitors/TVs any time soon. I don't have a TV at my small apartment but do have two 27 in monitors. Sometimes I wish I had enough space for a sofa and 55+ in TV for movies and shows. And maybe headsets will solve the problem, maybe I don't even need those monitors any more. Now? I realize I don't need multiple monitors, 2 is enough. (4k is definitely better than 1080p and 2 is better than 1, but I don't think I can properly utilize a third monitor.) And these are good monitors -- not Pro Display XDR good but still premium 4k monitors -- that have been around for years and I'll keep using them until they die. And about movies -- I have tried using the Quest 2/3 to watch movies. It is usable, and apps even provide "scenes" that make you feel you are in a theater. Do I want to wear them and watch movies on a fake 100" screen? No, for obvious reasons (comfort). If the day comes when they are light, comfortable to wear, allow very good passthrough and actually do a better job than my 4k screens, I'll take another look.

crooked-v 3y ago

The "killer app" here is to have an infinity-sized 'screen' for anything the average user was already going to do with an iPad or Apple TV. The hardware's just not good enough yet, in terms of lightness and comfort, for the average user to put up with as more than a novelty.

iLoveOncall 3y ago
The extreme majority of users is perfectly happy with two 24" monitors (actually, the extreme majority is happy with a single 13" monitor). "Infinite monitor space" isn't something that will sell a large enough numbers of headsets to prevent the cancellation of the next iteration.
tsimionescu 3y ago
Do you think it's plausible the hardware will ever be good enough? People aren't really that happy wearing even vision eyeglasses, and I don't see any realistic chance we will ever be able to have something with the capabilities of the Vision Pro in a form factor as small and light as eyeglasses.

fennecbutt 3y ago

I mean it's the same problem for a lot of stuff, build it and they will come. Apple is super naive to think that they can just jump into this space and yet end up with a polished product (ie Apple's selling point). I see on scifi all the time where someone flicks/flings a video playing on a device to move it to a larger display surface and it kills me that we actually have the technology to do stuff like this right now...but because every company works in their own interests/don't work together to create standards we don't get to have fun use of tech like that.

nottorp 3y ago

> For example, "killer apps/content" never arrived for 3D TVs and they have largely disappeared from the market. I'm still full of myself for postponing getting a 3D TV enough times that the technology died. > Same with various "waggling" input technologies like the Wiimote and Kinect. ... but I have a PS Move gathering dust somewhere. Which I even preordered.