4 ms·

In the US, having kids is for the top 1% who can afford it or the bottom 5% who have always been poor. Want to fix this in the US? Offer stable child-rearing f

In the US, having kids is for the top 1% who can afford it or the bottom 5% who have always been poor. Want to fix this in the US? Offer stable child-rearing families FREE housing, and I mean in decent neighborhoods. I don't mean a stipend or low-interest loan, I mean FREE including utilities, maintenance and property tax. You will see strollers everywhere within two years.

post_break 3y ago
You must be joking, we don't get free healthcare, let alone free tape at the post office.
- RajT88 3y ago
  Healthcare is just one piece of the puzzle. Birth rates are collapsing in countries with socialized healthcare as well.
data_Is_Raciss 3y ago
[dead]
bottlelion 3y ago
Solve declining populations with this one simple trick!
- ponector 3y ago
  Population declines in rich countries and increases in poor. Make world poor again and that will resolve the issue! /s
edgyquant 3y ago
There is also something seriously wrong with what we’re consuming or being exposed to. I’m a millennial and it seems like more of my friends have had trouble conceiving than the opposite. Just in my small friend group a couple of people are unable and the ones that have had them tried for quite a long time. I’m currently at a year of trying at 31 years old (partner is 30.). We are all otherwise healthy.
NeonVice 3y ago
Birth rate decreases as income increases. The highest income earners have the lowest birth rates.
dsr_ 3y ago
As Clinton famously said: "It's the economy, stupid." (I'm not calling you stupid.) Housing, healthcare, education, and transportation are all generally unaffordable, and those are precisely the costs most associated with having children. Add in the tradeoff of one partner staying home vs making money but paying it to childcare for several years, and it's much easier to say "maybe next year".
BoxFour 3y ago
I'd suggest that the main issue might not be housing, but rather childcare. The cost of childcare is incredibly high, more than many (most?) mortgages or rent payments. Unlike previous generations who settled in the suburbs close to family support, many of us are now gravitating back to city centers away from relatives who could help with childcare. Raising children requires a substantial commitment of time – they're undoubtedly rewarding for many who choose to have them, but it's completely reasonable why some people would be hesitant or even opposed to the idea.
- shagie 3y ago
  What about Finland or Sweden? 2.1 children per woman is the steady "not declining" rate... and Scandinavia tends to have people pointing there and saying "this is how you do support for new families..." Sweden is at 1.66 children per woman and Finland is at 1.37. United States is at 1.64 and Canada is at 1.40.
  - BoxFour 3y ago
    No one thing will be sufficient, but eliminating obstacles to child rearing is the only solution governments have short of nonsensical interventions (or just accepting the situation).
ponector 3y ago
But what is the outcome? Children in families where people are getting everything for free from the government. They will not be an active working class, because why should you work if government is giving everything for free? But more affordable child care and more tax brakes for families with kids is a key. These days having a kid is like going to prison: woman destroys career and burns savings.
VoodooJuJu 3y ago
Everyone used to be able to afford it until states and corporations worked together to convince everyone that a mother's time is better spent in a corporation generating tax revenue & profits for shareholders so that she can take some of that money she earns to afford childcare & home services because she doesn't have the time to care for her children or maintain her home because she's working so that she can afford childcare & home services because she doesn't have the time to care for her children or maintain her home because she's working so that she can afford childcare & home services because she doesn't have the time to care for her children or maintain her home because she's working
rhombocombus 3y ago
I’m an old dad (by my standards, 41 with two toddlers), and this is the reason. It took me most of my young adult life to even get to a stable configuration where kids felt remotely possible. No regrets over here, but I have less energy than I did when I was 30!
stronglikedan 3y ago
> Offer stable child-rearing families FREE housing, and I mean in decent neighborhoods. This has been done, often abused, and the neighborhoods don't always remain decent. How about just a UBI instead?
jejeyyy77 3y ago
lol
john025 3y ago
socialism is youth tax so what are you accomplishing taxing the youth to pay the youth (minus bureaucrats hefty cut)? we really need to stop taking money from kids to give to boomers, and take money from boomers to give to kids, unpopular political suicide changes like delete medicare
grondo4 3y ago
As others have pointed out you should really do some research, in the United States birth rates are inversely correlated with income. [1] If anything, if we wanted to dramatically raise birth rates we would want a poorer population, not a wealthier one. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-family-income-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-fam...
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  That trend is reversing. https://medium.com/impact-economics/rich-families-are-having-more-kids-1c0b80d5a16e https://medium.com/impact-economics/rich-families-are-having...
WithinReason 3y ago
Discovering the unintended consequences of this policy is left as an exercise for the reader.
friend_and_foe 3y ago
How do you offer free housing in "decent neighborhoods"? "Decent" is not an immutable quality of a place, its a property that emerges largely from the people that live there. Decent people are decent neighborhoods.

post_break 3y ago

You must be joking, we don't get free healthcare, let alone free tape at the post office.

RajT88 3y ago
Healthcare is just one piece of the puzzle. Birth rates are collapsing in countries with socialized healthcare as well.

data_Is_Raciss 3y ago

[dead]

bottlelion 3y ago

Solve declining populations with this one simple trick!

ponector 3y ago
Population declines in rich countries and increases in poor. Make world poor again and that will resolve the issue! /s

edgyquant 3y ago

There is also something seriously wrong with what we’re consuming or being exposed to. I’m a millennial and it seems like more of my friends have had trouble conceiving than the opposite. Just in my small friend group a couple of people are unable and the ones that have had them tried for quite a long time. I’m currently at a year of trying at 31 years old (partner is 30.). We are all otherwise healthy.

NeonVice 3y ago

Birth rate decreases as income increases. The highest income earners have the lowest birth rates.

dsr_ 3y ago

As Clinton famously said: "It's the economy, stupid." (I'm not calling you stupid.) Housing, healthcare, education, and transportation are all generally unaffordable, and those are precisely the costs most associated with having children. Add in the tradeoff of one partner staying home vs making money but paying it to childcare for several years, and it's much easier to say "maybe next year".

BoxFour 3y ago

I'd suggest that the main issue might not be housing, but rather childcare. The cost of childcare is incredibly high, more than many (most?) mortgages or rent payments. Unlike previous generations who settled in the suburbs close to family support, many of us are now gravitating back to city centers away from relatives who could help with childcare. Raising children requires a substantial commitment of time – they're undoubtedly rewarding for many who choose to have them, but it's completely reasonable why some people would be hesitant or even opposed to the idea.

shagie 3y ago
What about Finland or Sweden? 2.1 children per woman is the steady "not declining" rate... and Scandinavia tends to have people pointing there and saying "this is how you do support for new families..." Sweden is at 1.66 children per woman and Finland is at 1.37. United States is at 1.64 and Canada is at 1.40.
- BoxFour 3y ago
  No one thing will be sufficient, but eliminating obstacles to child rearing is the only solution governments have short of nonsensical interventions (or just accepting the situation).

ponector 3y ago

But what is the outcome? Children in families where people are getting everything for free from the government. They will not be an active working class, because why should you work if government is giving everything for free? But more affordable child care and more tax brakes for families with kids is a key. These days having a kid is like going to prison: woman destroys career and burns savings.

VoodooJuJu 3y ago

Everyone used to be able to afford it until states and corporations worked together to convince everyone that a mother's time is better spent in a corporation generating tax revenue & profits for shareholders so that she can take some of that money she earns to afford childcare & home services because she doesn't have the time to care for her children or maintain her home because she's working so that she can afford childcare & home services because she doesn't have the time to care for her children or maintain her home because she's working so that she can afford childcare & home services because she doesn't have the time to care for her children or maintain her home because she's working

rhombocombus 3y ago

I’m an old dad (by my standards, 41 with two toddlers), and this is the reason. It took me most of my young adult life to even get to a stable configuration where kids felt remotely possible. No regrets over here, but I have less energy than I did when I was 30!

stronglikedan 3y ago

> Offer stable child-rearing families FREE housing, and I mean in decent neighborhoods. This has been done, often abused, and the neighborhoods don't always remain decent. How about just a UBI instead?

jejeyyy77 3y ago

lol

john025 3y ago

socialism is youth tax so what are you accomplishing taxing the youth to pay the youth (minus bureaucrats hefty cut)? we really need to stop taking money from kids to give to boomers, and take money from boomers to give to kids, unpopular political suicide changes like delete medicare

grondo4 3y ago

As others have pointed out you should really do some research, in the United States birth rates are inversely correlated with income. [1] If anything, if we wanted to dramatically raise birth rates we would want a poorer population, not a wealthier one. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-family-income-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-fam...

bryanlarsen 3y ago
That trend is reversing. https://medium.com/impact-economics/rich-families-are-having-more-kids-1c0b80d5a16e https://medium.com/impact-economics/rich-families-are-having...

WithinReason 3y ago

Discovering the unintended consequences of this policy is left as an exercise for the reader.

friend_and_foe 3y ago

How do you offer free housing in "decent neighborhoods"? "Decent" is not an immutable quality of a place, its a property that emerges largely from the people that live there. Decent people are decent neighborhoods.