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Idk this reads like apologetics for the software industry, which I know people will be more sympathetic to here. But. I know doctors that tell me their EMR log

by mjfl 3y ago

Idk this reads like apologetics for the software industry, which I know people will be more sympathetic to here. But. I know doctors that tell me their EMR log them out after a minute of inactivity and take 3 minutes to login. This can happen multiple times during a patient visit and are totally disruptive. I've heard that it's even begun to affect the throughput of the hospital. So I wouldn't be so dismissive of doctors complaints.

namdnay 3y ago
I very much doubt it’s the software vendor who has chosen to implement the automatic logout after a minute. Most probably someone wrote that down in a requirement because that’s how the previous system worked or that’s what they saw on the internet, and once that’s done it’s set in stone
- peteradio 3y ago
  Maybe so but 3 minutes to get logged back in is hilariously bad.
  - nradov 3y ago
    Again, that's not an EHR problem. All modern EHRs support fast SSO and OS security integration. If it takes more than a few seconds to log back in then the fault lies with the customer. They have either configured the system incorrectly or are running on inadequate hardware.
htechenjoyer 3y ago
This is entirely a data security issue. Depending on the environment, without a logout this is seriously risking a HIPAA violation. Say you're in the hospital and your doctor pulls up your record on a computer in the hallway after they've done rounds on you to put in their observations and notes. However just as he's finishing, his pager goes off, he's off to an emergency, and he forgets to log off. How many minutes are you okay with your medical record being open for inspection by anyone that walks by? Other medical staff, admin staff, janitorial staff, other patients getting steps in, other patient's families? It's one of many instances where there's a valid reason for the technology to be implemented as such but since doctors usually aren't thinking about the technology or security aspects they just perceive it as annoying.
- pif 3y ago
  > It's one of many instances where there's a valid reason for the technology to be implemented as such but since doctors usually aren't thinking about the technology or security aspects they just perceive it as annoying. No, there is never a good reason to prevent a professional from doing his job. If the user finds it annoying, it is annoying: that's it! Learn to work for the user rather than against the user, and you'll become a better developer.
  - htechenjoyer 3y ago
    That's simply not true. The user is not the only stakeholder. The example I gave opens up the hospital to fines from the government and in the worst case scenario a massive legal judgement from the patient who's data was breached by a physician leaving his workstation with a patient record opened and it was compromised by a malicious actor. edit: in any case this is very likely a security configuration by the hospital infosec team, not the developer of the EMR.
  - seized 3y ago
    The specific example isn't a developer decision. It's a combination of vendor risk management teams, hospital InfoSec/security/compliance, legal teams, laws, and location of computers. Nevermind that setting is just as often a workstation GPO to lock the screen and not even the choice of the software. (Work for a PACS vendor, subject to the same stuff).

by mjfl 3y ago

namdnay 3y ago

I very much doubt it’s the software vendor who has chosen to implement the automatic logout after a minute. Most probably someone wrote that down in a requirement because that’s how the previous system worked or that’s what they saw on the internet, and once that’s done it’s set in stone

peteradio 3y ago
Maybe so but 3 minutes to get logged back in is hilariously bad.
- nradov 3y ago
  Again, that's not an EHR problem. All modern EHRs support fast SSO and OS security integration. If it takes more than a few seconds to log back in then the fault lies with the customer. They have either configured the system incorrectly or are running on inadequate hardware.

htechenjoyer 3y ago

This is entirely a data security issue. Depending on the environment, without a logout this is seriously risking a HIPAA violation. Say you're in the hospital and your doctor pulls up your record on a computer in the hallway after they've done rounds on you to put in their observations and notes. However just as he's finishing, his pager goes off, he's off to an emergency, and he forgets to log off. How many minutes are you okay with your medical record being open for inspection by anyone that walks by? Other medical staff, admin staff, janitorial staff, other patients getting steps in, other patient's families? It's one of many instances where there's a valid reason for the technology to be implemented as such but since doctors usually aren't thinking about the technology or security aspects they just perceive it as annoying.

pif 3y ago
> It's one of many instances where there's a valid reason for the technology to be implemented as such but since doctors usually aren't thinking about the technology or security aspects they just perceive it as annoying. No, there is never a good reason to prevent a professional from doing his job. If the user finds it annoying, it is annoying: that's it! Learn to work for the user rather than against the user, and you'll become a better developer.
- htechenjoyer 3y ago
  That's simply not true. The user is not the only stakeholder. The example I gave opens up the hospital to fines from the government and in the worst case scenario a massive legal judgement from the patient who's data was breached by a physician leaving his workstation with a patient record opened and it was compromised by a malicious actor. edit: in any case this is very likely a security configuration by the hospital infosec team, not the developer of the EMR.
- seized 3y ago
  The specific example isn't a developer decision. It's a combination of vendor risk management teams, hospital InfoSec/security/compliance, legal teams, laws, and location of computers. Nevermind that setting is just as often a workstation GPO to lock the screen and not even the choice of the software. (Work for a PACS vendor, subject to the same stuff).