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I recently found the Zed editor that looked very nice but I uninstalled it the moment I saw it had a GPT-4 console. I want nothing to do with AI. I want to do t

I recently found the Zed editor that looked very nice but I uninstalled it the moment I saw it had a GPT-4 console. I want nothing to do with AI. I want to do things with my own mind, the help of other human beings, and I'll try my best not to support AI even though it's encroaching on everything.

dzhiurgis 3y ago
That just sounds like anti computers but few decades ago
- drpossum 3y ago
  Computers are the worst and should be treated with nothing but disdain and trepidation. Just talk with anyone who has worked with computers for more than an hour.
- coldtea 3y ago
  So? It's still on point. We should have had more caution with computers encroaching everything back then too.
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  Not exactly. There is a qualitative distinction: * Computers and other automations never made creative decisions before and were perfect for automating mechanical, rote tasks. Like going through a column of numbers and summing them up, or resizing a folder full of images * AI attempts to make decisions that we would otherwise make creatively: yes, it may not be truly intelligent, but it undeniably makes decisions that, IF we made them, we would use part of our creative brains That is the FUNDAMENTAL distinction between AI and other forms of computing: AI, while not intrinsically different than other forms of computing, attempts to take over our creatively-functioning brains. That is why I am against it. Society needs creatively functioning brains to be healthy, and an amalgamation of AI with humanity will have forseen and unforseen consequences, including a subtle but significant modification of our mental operation to make us forget what it is to be truly human.
  - dexen 3y ago
    >Computers and other automations never made creative decisions before Oh they absolutely did. Even the early optimizing compilers discovered new pathways and created code that surprised even their authors. The only difference is that now regular people can see and appreciate what computers create.
    - vouaobrasil 3y ago
      This is a severely limited and pedantic example. Generally, most algorithms don't operate like that and even so, their "creativity" was limited to highly technical areas of development.
  - JohnBooty 3y ago
    attempts to take over our creatively-functioning brain I wonder if you are underestimating the extent to which the limitations and design decisions baked into computers and software (and into analog tools before them!) have always shaped our creative processes. For me, AI code assistants have greatly accelerated my creativity as an engineer. Because they help with boilerplate (and sometimes even have an idea worth considering) they allow me to explore more ideas in less time. This was very apparent to me when doing the "1 billion row challenge" that folks were talking about a few weeks back. I was able to rapidly try out probably a dozen approaches before finding a well-performing one. (Now, it must also be said that the gnarly micro-optimizations in the fastest solutions were clearly achieved "by hand." And I would also point out that ChatGPT/Copilot lead me down a few dead ends as well. But over all, a big win for me) What's key to me about AI code assistants is that they augment my engineering work. I am still writing code, I still need to understand everything, the architecture ideas are still mine.
  - flir 3y ago
    If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls. You are Plato and I claim my $5.
- nunez 3y ago
  We were against bonzaibuddy and other "helpful" extensions installed against our will back then too.
soulofmischief 3y ago
I remember when as a young programmer I was fiercely against autocomplete because it impacted my ability to memorize my code. Now I'm at the stage where I'd prefer to just think at an architectural level and let all of the tedium be abstracted away. Copilot is like autocomplete on crack and I love it.
- nunez 3y ago
  tbf I still don't use autocomplete. It's mostly man pages (or their language specific equivalents) and stackoverflow for me. That said, I don't program anything terribly complex.
  - JohnBooty 3y ago
    I'm curious! What's your reason? My strong belief is that autocomplete encourages the use of more descriptive identifier names and therefore is one factor that can encourage more readable and maintainable code. But I'm certainly not the world's most ultimate programmer.
cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
It’s really telling that anti-Copilot-et-al comments quite often eschew talking about the functional drawbacks and instead focus on some flavour of weird self-congratulatory elitist sentiment.
- dodslaser 3y ago
  I wonder if in the future there will be some kind of demand for artisinal/hand-crafted/organic code written by someone using "their own mind". Maybe then all these anti-AI devs can corner the market. To me it's just feels a really dumb hill to die on. Copilot has definitely removed a lot of the tedious work in my day to day.
  - vouaobrasil 3y ago
    That's because COPILOT will remove the next generation entirely. You're just selfishly taking advantage of the transition.
anthonypasq 3y ago
I agree, I only program via punchcards. The mere thought of compilation makes my skin crawl, but the introduction of garbage collection was really the last straw.

dzhiurgis 3y ago

That just sounds like anti computers but few decades ago

drpossum 3y ago
Computers are the worst and should be treated with nothing but disdain and trepidation. Just talk with anyone who has worked with computers for more than an hour.
coldtea 3y ago
So? It's still on point. We should have had more caution with computers encroaching everything back then too.
vouaobrasil 3y ago
Not exactly. There is a qualitative distinction: * Computers and other automations never made creative decisions before and were perfect for automating mechanical, rote tasks. Like going through a column of numbers and summing them up, or resizing a folder full of images * AI attempts to make decisions that we would otherwise make creatively: yes, it may not be truly intelligent, but it undeniably makes decisions that, IF we made them, we would use part of our creative brains That is the FUNDAMENTAL distinction between AI and other forms of computing: AI, while not intrinsically different than other forms of computing, attempts to take over our creatively-functioning brains. That is why I am against it. Society needs creatively functioning brains to be healthy, and an amalgamation of AI with humanity will have forseen and unforseen consequences, including a subtle but significant modification of our mental operation to make us forget what it is to be truly human.
- dexen 3y ago
  >Computers and other automations never made creative decisions before Oh they absolutely did. Even the early optimizing compilers discovered new pathways and created code that surprised even their authors. The only difference is that now regular people can see and appreciate what computers create.
  - vouaobrasil 3y ago
    This is a severely limited and pedantic example. Generally, most algorithms don't operate like that and even so, their "creativity" was limited to highly technical areas of development.
- JohnBooty 3y ago
  attempts to take over our creatively-functioning brain I wonder if you are underestimating the extent to which the limitations and design decisions baked into computers and software (and into analog tools before them!) have always shaped our creative processes. For me, AI code assistants have greatly accelerated my creativity as an engineer. Because they help with boilerplate (and sometimes even have an idea worth considering) they allow me to explore more ideas in less time. This was very apparent to me when doing the "1 billion row challenge" that folks were talking about a few weeks back. I was able to rapidly try out probably a dozen approaches before finding a well-performing one. (Now, it must also be said that the gnarly micro-optimizations in the fastest solutions were clearly achieved "by hand." And I would also point out that ChatGPT/Copilot lead me down a few dead ends as well. But over all, a big win for me) What's key to me about AI code assistants is that they augment my engineering work. I am still writing code, I still need to understand everything, the architecture ideas are still mine.
- flir 3y ago
  If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls. You are Plato and I claim my $5.
nunez 3y ago
We were against bonzaibuddy and other "helpful" extensions installed against our will back then too.

soulofmischief 3y ago

I remember when as a young programmer I was fiercely against autocomplete because it impacted my ability to memorize my code. Now I'm at the stage where I'd prefer to just think at an architectural level and let all of the tedium be abstracted away. Copilot is like autocomplete on crack and I love it.

nunez 3y ago
tbf I still don't use autocomplete. It's mostly man pages (or their language specific equivalents) and stackoverflow for me. That said, I don't program anything terribly complex.
- JohnBooty 3y ago
  I'm curious! What's your reason? My strong belief is that autocomplete encourages the use of more descriptive identifier names and therefore is one factor that can encourage more readable and maintainable code. But I'm certainly not the world's most ultimate programmer.

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago

It’s really telling that anti-Copilot-et-al comments quite often eschew talking about the functional drawbacks and instead focus on some flavour of weird self-congratulatory elitist sentiment.

dodslaser 3y ago
I wonder if in the future there will be some kind of demand for artisinal/hand-crafted/organic code written by someone using "their own mind". Maybe then all these anti-AI devs can corner the market. To me it's just feels a really dumb hill to die on. Copilot has definitely removed a lot of the tedious work in my day to day.
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  That's because COPILOT will remove the next generation entirely. You're just selfishly taking advantage of the transition.

anthonypasq 3y ago

I agree, I only program via punchcards. The mere thought of compilation makes my skin crawl, but the introduction of garbage collection was really the last straw.