4 ms·

IBM to Managers: Move Near an Office or Leave Company

44 points by htrp 3y ago

htrp 3y ago
> All US managers must immediately report to an office or client location at least three days a week “regardless of current work location status,” IBM CEO has also paused hiring for roles that could be replaced with AI
- danpalmer 3y ago
  Does IBM have many, or even any roles like this? The only rational assessment of "roles that could be replaced with AI" is first-level customer support, or perhaps translation, both of which I'd expect IBM outsources rather than hires for. Of course the answer is probably that this is based on an irrational assessment.
  - water_556 3y ago
    [dead]
  - mtillman 3y ago
    Global services is a substantial portion of their revenues and given their work output, I’d say yes.
  - Finnucane 3y ago
    The CEO has already been replaced by an AI.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
pinewurst 3y ago
Does this apply to Red Hat or are they still immune to most of the IBM dysfunction?
- mech422 3y ago
  From what my ex-coworkers are saying it applies to Taos, and BoxBoat - and RH was accquired long before either of them so I'm assuming it applies to them as well.
  - evan1107 3y ago
    Doesn’t apply to red hat
    - mech422 3y ago
      Really, thats interesting... Thanks!
Ginger-Pickles 3y ago
https://archive.ph/3AQSB https://archive.ph/3AQSB
procarch2019 3y ago
I mean, I guess I get it for certain things. Silly to mandate it though. Anyone who has work requiring them to be in the office should be in the office. My in office time jumps up to 3-5 days per week when I have a new employee until they’re somewhat self sufficient. My in office time jumps when I have to prepare hardware for a project *in house*. My in office time plummets when I’m doing a software project hosted on one of my customers systems. I guess what I’m saying is just be pragmatic and get your stuff done. P.S. One of my senior guys is a road warrior, highly effective and I see him in the office maybe three times a year.
pcarolan 3y ago
Work from office mandates may serve as a proxy for companies on the decline. When things are going well, companies are more willing to take risks that could impact the top line, when things are going wrong it’s all scrutiny and bottom line optimization.
- qsi 3y ago
  Conversely, it could be companies feel so confident and comfortable that they don't mind potentially losing staff (or being outcompeted for staff) when they impose WFO mandates. Don't want to WFO for us? Fine, we'll find someone else who will.
alexjplant 3y ago
Deja vu? [1] I thought the last time was earlier than 2017 because I seem to recall it happening while I was busy administering IBM products like Rational Jazz and Websphere but I guess not. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/ibm-a-pioneer-of-remote-work-calls-workers-back-to-the-office-1495108802 https://www.wsj.com/articles/ibm-a-pioneer-of-remote-work-ca...
symfoniq 3y ago
Between this and the recent elimination of 401k matching, IBM is sending a strong signal that it’s not a place I’d ever want to work. Hard to imagine they will be able to attract or retain talent.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
I wonder if you are competing against IBM for a contract with a company that you could use this to your benefit: See IBM is so far behind on the Internet and collaboration technology that they are requiring their managers to have to be physically present. They don’t even trust their own ability to remotely collaborate.
hajimuz 3y ago
Translate: I want layoff but I don’t want to say it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
dijit 3y ago
Controversial opinion time: I was chomping at the bit for remote before COVID. Hell, I still chomp at the bit for remote work. It's genuinely better in almost every way for me; I get that people have kids and it gets annoying to work from home for those people or that people want to be social: I am not those people, I am sorry. I have ADHD and I am not able to actually sit and focus in the office, especially these torrid open office environments that have been foisted on me for 15 years. However, I believe being close to an office where everyone can come together is of crucial importance. The company I work for is remote first, and we come together from all across europe once a quarter. It's hugely expensive to do this and that money would be better spent on more important things. Not only that, when we come together people are tired, uncomfortable and often overcompensate. A week trip will usually result in 9-10 days of low productivity for example. But during that week so much communication happens, so many things become unblocked and what's more important: people start to trust each other a bit more. I had a psychologist tell me once: "it takes 9 good interactions to offset 1 bad one", well, most interactions while working over the internet are stressful and anxiety inducing. Interactions in person can be pleasant, helpful, enjoyable. Going for lunch or playing a board game (or having a drink) can all help build a rapport and doing it casually is only possible if you can actually drop by. I sincerely think being physically located near your closest colleagues can seriously help with company culture and paper over obtuse over-communication which is required if you are doing remote-first correctly. All of this of course applies triple to managers; who's entire job is communication.
- rcdemski 3y ago
  I landed at wanting to work remote when I have clear direction on what my team wants to do, and meeting in person to hash out the big details. The in person bandwidth feels much greater (at least for me). Balancing both strategically lets us plan efficiently together and work efficiently at home.
- cwales95 3y ago
  This is my ideal scenario kinda. A company that is remote first but has offices near where you can go and work with your co-workers when it makes sense. It just seems like most places these day is one or the other in terms of remote or fully in office.
cwales95 3y ago
Companies need to learn mandating office working unnecessarily serves no one but potential employees who now know not to apply to your company.
marcus_holmes 3y ago
> “IBM is focused on providing a work environment that balances flexibility with the face-to-face interactions that make us more productive, innovative and better able to serve our clients,” Despite all the evidence that shows people are not more productive, innovative or happy working from an office. In fact, the reverse. It's about commercial real estate values, and a management culture that finds itself unable to manage remotely.
jacknews 3y ago
Is there anything left of IBM after a couple of decades of hollowing-out by MBAs and financialization, isn't it just shell by now?
- pjmlp 3y ago
  The money priting machine that pays the salaries of people working on Linux kernel, GNOME, Java, Red-Hat Linux and GCC, as an example.
  - jacknews 3y ago
    Did IBM start paying more after acquiring those guys? I don't follow anymore but I'm sure you're right there's still a ton of revenue from the old businesses and their locked-in customers. Probably like a white dwarf, it'll keep burning almost forever, cooling slowly.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      They have been paying since around 2000 already.
cebert 3y ago
Once the tech economy improves, I see there being large employment shifts by those who prefer remote work. Times change, and instead of fighting change, employers should learn how to embrace it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
me_here_alone 3y ago
Retired IBM manager here. This has nothing to do with working together. This is another attempt by IBM to get rid of the older workers (again). Most teams are scattered across the world, and in the US they are all over the place. It's just another "Resource Action" targeted at older workers disguised as some kind of great idea to be more productive.
- fred_is_fred 3y ago
  Exactly - Managers with kids in high school (aka expensive employees) won't move. People who are 25 (aka cheap employees) might. It's been done for years by IBM and many other companies. When it happened at my job 20+ years ago this was the exact pattern - good news for me is that I was 23 and wanted to move (new city matched my lifestyle much better). Only 1 person in my org who was in their 40s (based on my guess) out of 20 moved. He was single with no kids. All of my same-aged friends did move as well. At least then the paid severance if you didn't take the offer.
- leotravis10 3y ago
  ProPublica has a great report from 2018 on IBM cutting the heads of older workers that is still relevant: https://features.propublica.org/ibm/ibm-age-discrimination-american-workers/ https://features.propublica.org/ibm/ibm-age-discrimination-a...
kevinsync 3y ago
A buddy works at IBM and told me one of the “perks” is you can earn “Blue Points” that you can spend in some wacky internal marketplace. He got me a DVD of Carrot Top’s magnum opus “Chairman of the Board” IBM: move near an office and come in three days a week, or tender your resignation and forfeit all of your Chuck E Cheese tickets!!
- lisplist 3y ago
  There’s some pretty nice stuff you can get. Vacation packages as well. Just takes forever to earn enough to do anything useful with.
pikseladam 3y ago
Doesn't it translate to: "After, good employee left, let's promote the underachievers to management. I'm eager to see how their unique 'skills' will steer us to new heights of inefficacy."
bravetraveler 3y ago
Wimps, lay people off IBM is doing everything they can to push people out without any responsibility on their end

44 points by htrp 3y ago

htrp 3y ago

> All US managers must immediately report to an office or client location at least three days a week “regardless of current work location status,” IBM CEO has also paused hiring for roles that could be replaced with AI

danpalmer 3y ago
Does IBM have many, or even any roles like this? The only rational assessment of "roles that could be replaced with AI" is first-level customer support, or perhaps translation, both of which I'd expect IBM outsources rather than hires for. Of course the answer is probably that this is based on an irrational assessment.
- water_556 3y ago
  [dead]
- mtillman 3y ago
  Global services is a substantial portion of their revenues and given their work output, I’d say yes.
- Finnucane 3y ago
  The CEO has already been replaced by an AI.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

pinewurst 3y ago

Does this apply to Red Hat or are they still immune to most of the IBM dysfunction?

mech422 3y ago
From what my ex-coworkers are saying it applies to Taos, and BoxBoat - and RH was accquired long before either of them so I'm assuming it applies to them as well.
- evan1107 3y ago
  Doesn’t apply to red hat
  - mech422 3y ago
    Really, thats interesting... Thanks!

Ginger-Pickles 3y ago

https://archive.ph/3AQSB https://archive.ph/3AQSB

procarch2019 3y ago

I mean, I guess I get it for certain things. Silly to mandate it though. Anyone who has work requiring them to be in the office should be in the office. My in office time jumps up to 3-5 days per week when I have a new employee until they’re somewhat self sufficient. My in office time jumps when I have to prepare hardware for a project *in house*. My in office time plummets when I’m doing a software project hosted on one of my customers systems. I guess what I’m saying is just be pragmatic and get your stuff done. P.S. One of my senior guys is a road warrior, highly effective and I see him in the office maybe three times a year.

pcarolan 3y ago

Work from office mandates may serve as a proxy for companies on the decline. When things are going well, companies are more willing to take risks that could impact the top line, when things are going wrong it’s all scrutiny and bottom line optimization.

qsi 3y ago
Conversely, it could be companies feel so confident and comfortable that they don't mind potentially losing staff (or being outcompeted for staff) when they impose WFO mandates. Don't want to WFO for us? Fine, we'll find someone else who will.

alexjplant 3y ago

Deja vu? [1] I thought the last time was earlier than 2017 because I seem to recall it happening while I was busy administering IBM products like Rational Jazz and Websphere but I guess not. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/ibm-a-pioneer-of-remote-work-calls-workers-back-to-the-office-1495108802 https://www.wsj.com/articles/ibm-a-pioneer-of-remote-work-ca...

symfoniq 3y ago

Between this and the recent elimination of 401k matching, IBM is sending a strong signal that it’s not a place I’d ever want to work. Hard to imagine they will be able to attract or retain talent.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago

I wonder if you are competing against IBM for a contract with a company that you could use this to your benefit: See IBM is so far behind on the Internet and collaboration technology that they are requiring their managers to have to be physically present. They don’t even trust their own ability to remotely collaborate.

hajimuz 3y ago

Translate: I want layoff but I don’t want to say it.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

dijit 3y ago

Controversial opinion time: I was chomping at the bit for remote before COVID. Hell, I still chomp at the bit for remote work. It's genuinely better in almost every way for me; I get that people have kids and it gets annoying to work from home for those people or that people want to be social: I am not those people, I am sorry. I have ADHD and I am not able to actually sit and focus in the office, especially these torrid open office environments that have been foisted on me for 15 years. However, I believe being close to an office where everyone can come together is of crucial importance. The company I work for is remote first, and we come together from all across europe once a quarter. It's hugely expensive to do this and that money would be better spent on more important things. Not only that, when we come together people are tired, uncomfortable and often overcompensate. A week trip will usually result in 9-10 days of low productivity for example. But during that week so much communication happens, so many things become unblocked and what's more important: people start to trust each other a bit more. I had a psychologist tell me once: "it takes 9 good interactions to offset 1 bad one", well, most interactions while working over the internet are stressful and anxiety inducing. Interactions in person can be pleasant, helpful, enjoyable. Going for lunch or playing a board game (or having a drink) can all help build a rapport and doing it casually is only possible if you can actually drop by. I sincerely think being physically located near your closest colleagues can seriously help with company culture and paper over obtuse over-communication which is required if you are doing remote-first correctly. All of this of course applies triple to managers; who's entire job is communication.

rcdemski 3y ago
I landed at wanting to work remote when I have clear direction on what my team wants to do, and meeting in person to hash out the big details. The in person bandwidth feels much greater (at least for me). Balancing both strategically lets us plan efficiently together and work efficiently at home.
cwales95 3y ago
This is my ideal scenario kinda. A company that is remote first but has offices near where you can go and work with your co-workers when it makes sense. It just seems like most places these day is one or the other in terms of remote or fully in office.

cwales95 3y ago

Companies need to learn mandating office working unnecessarily serves no one but potential employees who now know not to apply to your company.

marcus_holmes 3y ago

> “IBM is focused on providing a work environment that balances flexibility with the face-to-face interactions that make us more productive, innovative and better able to serve our clients,” Despite all the evidence that shows people are not more productive, innovative or happy working from an office. In fact, the reverse. It's about commercial real estate values, and a management culture that finds itself unable to manage remotely.

jacknews 3y ago

Is there anything left of IBM after a couple of decades of hollowing-out by MBAs and financialization, isn't it just shell by now?

pjmlp 3y ago
The money priting machine that pays the salaries of people working on Linux kernel, GNOME, Java, Red-Hat Linux and GCC, as an example.
- jacknews 3y ago
  Did IBM start paying more after acquiring those guys? I don't follow anymore but I'm sure you're right there's still a ton of revenue from the old businesses and their locked-in customers. Probably like a white dwarf, it'll keep burning almost forever, cooling slowly.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    They have been paying since around 2000 already.

cebert 3y ago

Once the tech economy improves, I see there being large employment shifts by those who prefer remote work. Times change, and instead of fighting change, employers should learn how to embrace it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

me_here_alone 3y ago

Retired IBM manager here. This has nothing to do with working together. This is another attempt by IBM to get rid of the older workers (again). Most teams are scattered across the world, and in the US they are all over the place. It's just another "Resource Action" targeted at older workers disguised as some kind of great idea to be more productive.

fred_is_fred 3y ago
Exactly - Managers with kids in high school (aka expensive employees) won't move. People who are 25 (aka cheap employees) might. It's been done for years by IBM and many other companies. When it happened at my job 20+ years ago this was the exact pattern - good news for me is that I was 23 and wanted to move (new city matched my lifestyle much better). Only 1 person in my org who was in their 40s (based on my guess) out of 20 moved. He was single with no kids. All of my same-aged friends did move as well. At least then the paid severance if you didn't take the offer.
leotravis10 3y ago
ProPublica has a great report from 2018 on IBM cutting the heads of older workers that is still relevant: https://features.propublica.org/ibm/ibm-age-discrimination-american-workers/ https://features.propublica.org/ibm/ibm-age-discrimination-a...

kevinsync 3y ago

A buddy works at IBM and told me one of the “perks” is you can earn “Blue Points” that you can spend in some wacky internal marketplace. He got me a DVD of Carrot Top’s magnum opus “Chairman of the Board” IBM: move near an office and come in three days a week, or tender your resignation and forfeit all of your Chuck E Cheese tickets!!

lisplist 3y ago
There’s some pretty nice stuff you can get. Vacation packages as well. Just takes forever to earn enough to do anything useful with.

pikseladam 3y ago

Doesn't it translate to: "After, good employee left, let's promote the underachievers to management. I'm eager to see how their unique 'skills' will steer us to new heights of inefficacy."

bravetraveler 3y ago

Wimps, lay people off IBM is doing everything they can to push people out without any responsibility on their end