9 ms·

Microsoft stole my Chrome tabs, and it wants yours, too

155 points by manuelabeledo 3y ago

vdaea 3y ago
>I didn’t even realize I was using Edge at first, and I was confused why all my tabs were suddenly logged out. What a mistake, not importing cookies and local storage as well...
- lxgr 3y ago
  At least on macOS the cookies are actually encrypted by Chrome, in a way not accessible to apps signed by a different code signing certificate. Not sure if that's an option on Windows too.
hexage1814 3y ago
You know what is more frustrating? Edge is nice browser (it would be even better if they allowed you a way to remove all the bloat they insert it), Microsoft didn't need these dark patterns.
- moonleay 3y ago
  What does Edge do, what Firefox or Chrome for that matter, cant do? In my experience there is little to no changes bysides the added microsoft bloat.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >What does Edge do, what Firefox or Chrome for that matter, cant do? Much better memory and power efficiency on Windows devices. Plus the Copilot/Bing AI mumbo jumbo.
  - unsignedint 3y ago
    Actually, there's one. Not insisting on using the last profile used to open an external link, which is the reason I'm using Edge myself. In other word, I can't designate a profile as default profile for external links. It seems like Chrome's not interested implementing this.[1] [1]: https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/110870809/default-profile-for-external-links?hl=en https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/110870809/default-p...
  - llm_nerd 3y ago
    Versus Chrome: tab groups, vertical tabs, collections, much better sleep/offloading of tabs, great synchronization across devices, "CoPilot" built in. I use Edge across Windows, macOS, iOS and iPadOS because of the collections. At the time Chrome was trialing tab groups but they were broken garbage and I haven't checked since. Invariably someone is going to note that with this extension and that extension and various canary flags you can do similar things, but I'd rather not have the nuisance. Edge actually has its uses. It is unfortunate that Microsoft is tainting it -- something the company just seems unable to stop itself from doing -- as it should sell itself.
  - pxmpxm 3y ago
    It used to be faster in Windows and you could disable omnibox suggestion and autocomplete stuff (google won't because they need that traffic for ad revenue). Then microsoft started adding MSN type of bullshit to it (rewards, bing chat gp nonsense, reset new tab page / privacy settings / games (wut?) / shopping suggestion). Switched back to firefox after using edge for around two years.
- janice1999 3y ago
  A study from 2020 found Edge to be the worst browser when it comes to privacy, in a separate category of privacy invasion shared only with Yandex the Russian browser. > From a privacy perspective Microsoft Edge and Yandex are qualitatively different from the other browsers studied. Both send persistent identifiers than can be used to link requests (and associated IP address/location) to back end servers. Edge also sends the hardware UUID of the device to Microsoft and Yandex similarly transmits a hashed hardware identifier to back end servers. As far as we can tell this behaviour cannot be disabled by users. In addition to the search autocomplete functionality that shares details of web pages visited, both transmit web page information to servers that appear unrelated to search autocomplete. https://www.scss.tcd.ie/Doug.Leith/pubs/browser_privacy.pdf https://www.scss.tcd.ie/Doug.Leith/pubs/browser_privacy.pdf
  - baal80spam 3y ago
    Thanks for sharing this report. According to it, Brave is on top. Just reinforces my decision.
  - coffeeling 3y ago
    I was really excited about Chromium Edge when it initially landed, but grew tired of the dark patterns. Seeing that grim report (or one very much like it on the ieee site) a few years back was an eye opener.
  - hexage1814 3y ago
    Not everyone care about privacy, it's that simple.
- lxgr 3y ago
  If a browser is "nice if it weren't for all these dark patterns and annoyances", it's arguably not that nice, especially given that it's not open-source and there's no real way to patch out these bad behaviors.
  - hexage1814 3y ago
    The software itself is pretty good, you can see that they put enough work on making something more than just a chromium skin. It's a optimized version of chromium that runs pretty well, especially in Windows. And they implemented very cool features, such as their vertical tabs, which I believe to have its best implementation compared to other chromium browsers, their sidebar which enables you pin sites on it, and its side by side mode, which is something that I would love to become a standard features in browsers. I think people are getting too cared away on things such as "open-source" or "it invades my privacy", or some weird deep hatred for Microsoft aspect, when most people don't care with that. It's not even a parameter for them to judge if a browser is bad or not, because they simply do not care. So you have to see the situation through the average people's eyes. I don't use Microsoft Edge, but I'm not some radical free-software absolutist either, I'm capable to see that most people don't care with that and make a fair observation about a piece of software. If you are worry with privacy/open-sourceness, there is Firefox, there is LibreWolf, etc...
    - lxgr 3y ago
      I wouldn’t call myself a “radical free-software absolutist” (and I hope you’ll agree that there’s a lot of ideological middle ground between an RMS and the average happy/dispassionately content Microsoft user), but one big advantage of open source in this context is that it’s a kind of insurance policy against the developer/owner taking things into a direction I don’t appreciate. I’d be much more likely to run a fork of Edge without the incredibly annoying/distasteful coupons and rewards it keeps trying to push on me, for example.
    - manuelabeledo 3y ago
      > I think people are getting too cared away on things such as "open-source" or "it invades my privacy", or some weird deep hatred for Microsoft aspect, when most people don't care with that. It's not even a parameter for them to judge if a browser is bad or not, because they simply do not care. So you have to see the situation through the average people's eyes. That is... an odd take? While it's true that society, as a whole, don't care much about, and I cannot stress this enough, many things, outside whatever may have some direct effect on everyday everyone's lives, someone needs to do the job of informing them about why something is actually more important than they may think. Thus, Edge users who are fine with the software, for a variety of reasons, may not understand why the browser is better or worse than the competition, if they choose to ignore the facts about it, regardless of it being open source or not. I think privacy is a big one. Perhaps I wouldn't choose Chrome over Edge, but I would absolutely not choose Edge over pretty much anything else. Privacy violations do have a larger effect on people lives than they may think, and they choosing Edge just because they can have vertical tabs, is a bit like choosing to smoke because it "calms the nerves".
poetril 3y ago
It really is painful that out of the chromium browsers I'd choose Edge in an instant if they just would remove or allow me to remove the bloatware they ship with. I currently use Brave, which thankfully lets me disable all the crypto nonsense they ship with. I could see myself using Arc if they end up releasing a Linux/Windows port.
- subarctic 3y ago
  Who needs all that cryptography nonsense, right?
  - quenix 3y ago
    I would assume OP meant cryptocurrency?
  - Ygg2 3y ago
    Parent meant the crypto currency attention token or whatnot. I don't use Brave.
  - snapcaster 3y ago
    Brave is a browser with some kind of built in native cryptocurrency or something. Apparently despite that red flag the browser itself is decent
- renewiltord 3y ago
  Arc has Windows now.
  - elashri 3y ago
    For clarification, It is available for beta testing where you have to apply [1]. I am not part of thus test but judging from the survey questions it seems it is not ready for everyday usage yet. Though I maybe wrong. [1] https://www.isarconwindowsyet.com/ https://www.isarconwindowsyet.com/
  - open-paren 3y ago
    It's in super-beta right now and has hardly any of the features of the Mac Version. Only split view and spaces work. No little arc, no easels, no Arc Max, no popup, no search discovery stuff. I'm still a happy user, but don't go into it expecting the exact same thing today.
addicted 3y ago
Remember how MS wasn’t doing all this shit 5-10 years ago? It was thanks to the EU regulations on MS. Now that the limits on that had ended MS is sinking to new lows. So next time an Appleoid tells you how the horrible EU is destroying innovation by asking Apple to use the USB-C connector on its phone that it does on every other device in its lineup, remember MS. (also the fact that if it wasn’t for anti trust actions against MS by the U.S. and the EU Apple almost certainly wouldn’t exist).
- dmonitor 3y ago
  All the “Appleoids” i’ve come across are happy that they can finally use their macbook chargers with their iphones.
  - psjs 3y ago
    Won’t that degenerate the battery at a much quicker rate?
    - manuelabeledo 3y ago
      USB-C controllers negotiate the correct voltage and amperage.
    - eimrine 3y ago
      All quick charge approaches do this. You'll buy a new one faster.
    - lxgr 3y ago
      No, why would it? The phone always charges as fast as it wants to, so it doesn't really matter if you connect it to a 20W or a 240W power supply.
  - asdajksah2123 3y ago
    Right...but before they were happy they were complaining about the awful EU (and they still are). Here's John Gruber (who I like a lot, but you know when his Apple blinders are blinding him). https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/09/23/eu-usbc-mandate https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/09/23/eu-usbc-mandate And now they're complaining about the EU requiring Apple to open up iOS like the Mac, and they are pushing back against that. It's the regulatory version of how everything sucked until Apple did it (so multi-tasking on phones is awful, until Apple decided that actually now it's ok and now Stage Manager is the best thing since sliced bread).
alpaca128 3y ago
Maybe they should focus their efforts on finishing existing features, like the PDF annotation functionality that has no undo.
- Night_Thastus 3y ago
  On that note, I find it ridiculous how much better Chromium is at dealing with PDFs than Acrobat. Like, the search basically doesn't work for me in Acrobat but works fantastic in Edge/Chrome.
graypegg 3y ago
> Microsoft displays a big blue accept button to encourage Windows users to enable the feature, with a darker “not now” button if you want to opt out. I know I’m preaching to the choir, and “dark patterns” are a very surface level observation of a product, so forgive me for yelling into the HN void but… I am still so annoyed seeing “not now” in a UI. It’s so ubiquitous. I know why it’s like that, I’ve been in meetings where I’ve discussed it with UI design folk. You want to make sure users aren’t stressing about making some final un-revokable decision before they even use the app. People think it’s actually a user respecting decision. I still hate it. My proudest achievement at work in 2023 was getting an up-sell pop up to say “no” with details about where to find the deal again in the billing page displayed underneath the button.
- dimask 3y ago
  I interpret "no (you can change the decision later)" as respecting user decision. I interpret "not now" as "you can say no, but we may keep harassing you until you say yes" as very often is actually the case.
- pyrale 3y ago
  > People think it’s actually a user respecting decision. Absolutely not. "Not now" means "Fine, but we will harass you in the future, until you accept". If it was really about respecting the user, the "OK" button would also be rebranded "OK for now", which it, obviously, is never.
- anonymousab 3y ago
  > You want to make sure users aren’t stressing about making some final un-revokable decision before they even use the app It has never come across that way as an end user. As it has always been on some terrible change or option where the answer should be "no, now bugger off forever", I have viewed "not now" as the same as "ask me again later": an explicit thumb in the eye and statement by the software developers that they think their mandate takes priority over my preferences and that I am not qualified to make decisions about the software I run. It is a very easy way to maximize my disdain for a developer/team/org.
redder23 3y ago
Edge is the last Browser I would use. There is a Windows 11 version that you can install without Edge now if I remember and read this correctly. Its because of some EU law that requires M$ to ship without a browser. Not sure if there is also a way to actually remove it if you did not a fresh install now, when I read about it there was not.
AlexandrB 3y ago
Recently started getting a warning in Windows 10 that my computer is not Windows 11 compatible. Talk about dodging a bullet - if I had a proper TPM module (or whatever Microsoft calls it) I might have gotten an unexpected "upgrade" instead.
- robotnikman 3y ago
  I ended up just disabling the one on mine
  - lnauta 3y ago
    I did too. And later I did a bios upgrade that enabled the chip again and suddenly windows started showing me pop ups and telling me to upgrade. After a lot of panic and powering down on an upgrade screen without a 'no' button I went to the bios and found my setting reset. Then I put a group policy in place not allowing such despicable behaviour.
    - gpvos 3y ago
      Does Microsoft have any idea of the amount of stress they cause? They clearly don't care, at least at management level, but I wonder if they are even aware.
      - justinclift 3y ago
        How could they be unaware? It's such a widely hated behaviour that tv shows take the piss out of them for it: https://youtu.be/2zpCOYkdvTQ?si=_qGffU2M3k847C3H&t=8 https://youtu.be/2zpCOYkdvTQ?si=_qGffU2M3k847C3H&t=8
robotnikman 3y ago
All I can say is, and I don't use this lightly, What the Fuck? And the fact that they are getting away with such behavior for years now is just the cherry on top, but they keep getting more brazen with their techniques over time. Who knows what they are going to do next to top this to push Edge and all their other programs down our throats?
lousken 3y ago
amazing, now onto disabling edge in my network...
baal80spam 3y ago
Let's be honest here - 99% of users would be like "Oh, neat! Saved me a ton of work!" in this case.
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  Are 99% of Windows users thinking of switching from Chrome to Edge?
  - reportgunner 3y ago
    They don't know the difference.
  - weikju 3y ago
    "The computer said my browsing would be faster so I did it, but now I have all these coupon offers, so it's pretty cool I guess, and there's this AI thing, we live in star trek timez!!!!!! they have all my data anyway right so who cares?"
lxgr 3y ago
Something that I really like about Chrome on macOS is that it encrypts various aspects of user profiles, including (at least) the cookie jar, with a key stored in macOS Keychain, only accessible to its own binary. This reliably prevents other apps from "helpfully" peeking at Chrome cookies. I'm not sure if they also do that for the "open tabs" database, but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. I also really wish Firefox would copy this feature.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bitwize 3y ago
WONTFIX, working as designed. I'm 80% certain they want to trick users into using Edge while thinking it's Chrome. Windows is a dark-pattern cesspit.
r00fus 3y ago
Why do people put up with this abusive relationship with their hardware OS? Microsoft doing now - what they've wanted to do for 20+ years.
- dijit 3y ago
  Games, or so I heard. Oh and market capture: "maybe that excel spreadsheet I look at once a year won't work in OpenOffice/GDocs" ++ "My work is Microsoft so its the easier path"
bastard_op 3y ago
They're trying to pull an Apple, that you can use whatever browser you want, but they want you using their rendering engine underneath, as apple with webkit, Microsoft with edge, which is just a clone of chrome with all the google spyware replaced with Microsoft's. The problem is you're stuck with all their suckage in doing so, such as poor bastards using IOS that get no basic privacy protection in the browser with extensions like ublock origin or noscript, and Microsoft simply trying to keep themselves relevant to continue slurping your data first hand. With the web by and large having moved to using https/tls for everything, it's no longer easy to see what people are doing passively sniffing traffic, even the os, so now they build browsers to go back to watching everything you do via the rendering engine client. Even this wasn't good enough for Apple that they implemented their default-on "privacy proxy" to provide justification for running almost everything out of your phone through them network-wise too. Plus you're held to using only Apple's webkit that they release security updates constantly for, since beside imessage is the most popular infection vector to get malware on iphones. Google is trying this now too with their "privacy vpn" (ha), I'm sure monkey see monkey do Microsoft will soon too. This is why the EU is trying to force Apple to allow 3rd party rendering engines, to open up the ecosystem. Someone should really apply the same to Microsoft for doing this too. They might get sued if they just deleted chrome and told you to use Edge instead, but this passive aggressive and overreaching coercion is truly sinister they play at.
ochronus 3y ago
Such a pity, for an otherwise excellent browser :(
- javcasas 3y ago
  A browser full of dark patterns is not an excellent browser.
  - ochronus 3y ago
    It can still be functionally good, as a browser.
kazinator 3y ago
Proprietary Browser based on Chromium ignores user wishes, diddling with another Proprietary Browser based on Chromium. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fc8wdm3ngt7ya1.jpg https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fc...

155 points by manuelabeledo 3y ago

>I didn’t even realize I was using Edge at first, and I was confused why all my tabs were suddenly logged out. What a mistake, not importing cookies and local storage as well...

lxgr 3y ago
At least on macOS the cookies are actually encrypted by Chrome, in a way not accessible to apps signed by a different code signing certificate. Not sure if that's an option on Windows too.

hexage1814 3y ago

You know what is more frustrating? Edge is nice browser (it would be even better if they allowed you a way to remove all the bloat they insert it), Microsoft didn't need these dark patterns.

moonleay 3y ago
What does Edge do, what Firefox or Chrome for that matter, cant do? In my experience there is little to no changes bysides the added microsoft bloat.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >What does Edge do, what Firefox or Chrome for that matter, cant do? Much better memory and power efficiency on Windows devices. Plus the Copilot/Bing AI mumbo jumbo.
- unsignedint 3y ago
  Actually, there's one. Not insisting on using the last profile used to open an external link, which is the reason I'm using Edge myself. In other word, I can't designate a profile as default profile for external links. It seems like Chrome's not interested implementing this.[1] [1]: https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/110870809/default-profile-for-external-links?hl=en https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/110870809/default-p...
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  Versus Chrome: tab groups, vertical tabs, collections, much better sleep/offloading of tabs, great synchronization across devices, "CoPilot" built in. I use Edge across Windows, macOS, iOS and iPadOS because of the collections. At the time Chrome was trialing tab groups but they were broken garbage and I haven't checked since. Invariably someone is going to note that with this extension and that extension and various canary flags you can do similar things, but I'd rather not have the nuisance. Edge actually has its uses. It is unfortunate that Microsoft is tainting it -- something the company just seems unable to stop itself from doing -- as it should sell itself.
- pxmpxm 3y ago
  It used to be faster in Windows and you could disable omnibox suggestion and autocomplete stuff (google won't because they need that traffic for ad revenue). Then microsoft started adding MSN type of bullshit to it (rewards, bing chat gp nonsense, reset new tab page / privacy settings / games (wut?) / shopping suggestion). Switched back to firefox after using edge for around two years.
janice1999 3y ago
A study from 2020 found Edge to be the worst browser when it comes to privacy, in a separate category of privacy invasion shared only with Yandex the Russian browser. > From a privacy perspective Microsoft Edge and Yandex are qualitatively different from the other browsers studied. Both send persistent identifiers than can be used to link requests (and associated IP address/location) to back end servers. Edge also sends the hardware UUID of the device to Microsoft and Yandex similarly transmits a hashed hardware identifier to back end servers. As far as we can tell this behaviour cannot be disabled by users. In addition to the search autocomplete functionality that shares details of web pages visited, both transmit web page information to servers that appear unrelated to search autocomplete. https://www.scss.tcd.ie/Doug.Leith/pubs/browser_privacy.pdf https://www.scss.tcd.ie/Doug.Leith/pubs/browser_privacy.pdf
- baal80spam 3y ago
  Thanks for sharing this report. According to it, Brave is on top. Just reinforces my decision.
- coffeeling 3y ago
  I was really excited about Chromium Edge when it initially landed, but grew tired of the dark patterns. Seeing that grim report (or one very much like it on the ieee site) a few years back was an eye opener.
- hexage1814 3y ago
  Not everyone care about privacy, it's that simple.
lxgr 3y ago
If a browser is "nice if it weren't for all these dark patterns and annoyances", it's arguably not that nice, especially given that it's not open-source and there's no real way to patch out these bad behaviors.
- hexage1814 3y ago
  The software itself is pretty good, you can see that they put enough work on making something more than just a chromium skin. It's a optimized version of chromium that runs pretty well, especially in Windows. And they implemented very cool features, such as their vertical tabs, which I believe to have its best implementation compared to other chromium browsers, their sidebar which enables you pin sites on it, and its side by side mode, which is something that I would love to become a standard features in browsers. I think people are getting too cared away on things such as "open-source" or "it invades my privacy", or some weird deep hatred for Microsoft aspect, when most people don't care with that. It's not even a parameter for them to judge if a browser is bad or not, because they simply do not care. So you have to see the situation through the average people's eyes. I don't use Microsoft Edge, but I'm not some radical free-software absolutist either, I'm capable to see that most people don't care with that and make a fair observation about a piece of software. If you are worry with privacy/open-sourceness, there is Firefox, there is LibreWolf, etc...
  - lxgr 3y ago
    I wouldn’t call myself a “radical free-software absolutist” (and I hope you’ll agree that there’s a lot of ideological middle ground between an RMS and the average happy/dispassionately content Microsoft user), but one big advantage of open source in this context is that it’s a kind of insurance policy against the developer/owner taking things into a direction I don’t appreciate. I’d be much more likely to run a fork of Edge without the incredibly annoying/distasteful coupons and rewards it keeps trying to push on me, for example.
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    > I think people are getting too cared away on things such as "open-source" or "it invades my privacy", or some weird deep hatred for Microsoft aspect, when most people don't care with that. It's not even a parameter for them to judge if a browser is bad or not, because they simply do not care. So you have to see the situation through the average people's eyes. That is... an odd take? While it's true that society, as a whole, don't care much about, and I cannot stress this enough, many things, outside whatever may have some direct effect on everyday everyone's lives, someone needs to do the job of informing them about why something is actually more important than they may think. Thus, Edge users who are fine with the software, for a variety of reasons, may not understand why the browser is better or worse than the competition, if they choose to ignore the facts about it, regardless of it being open source or not. I think privacy is a big one. Perhaps I wouldn't choose Chrome over Edge, but I would absolutely not choose Edge over pretty much anything else. Privacy violations do have a larger effect on people lives than they may think, and they choosing Edge just because they can have vertical tabs, is a bit like choosing to smoke because it "calms the nerves".

poetril 3y ago

It really is painful that out of the chromium browsers I'd choose Edge in an instant if they just would remove or allow me to remove the bloatware they ship with. I currently use Brave, which thankfully lets me disable all the crypto nonsense they ship with. I could see myself using Arc if they end up releasing a Linux/Windows port.

subarctic 3y ago
Who needs all that cryptography nonsense, right?
- quenix 3y ago
  I would assume OP meant cryptocurrency?
- Ygg2 3y ago
  Parent meant the crypto currency attention token or whatnot. I don't use Brave.
- snapcaster 3y ago
  Brave is a browser with some kind of built in native cryptocurrency or something. Apparently despite that red flag the browser itself is decent
renewiltord 3y ago
Arc has Windows now.
- elashri 3y ago
  For clarification, It is available for beta testing where you have to apply [1]. I am not part of thus test but judging from the survey questions it seems it is not ready for everyday usage yet. Though I maybe wrong. [1] https://www.isarconwindowsyet.com/ https://www.isarconwindowsyet.com/
- open-paren 3y ago
  It's in super-beta right now and has hardly any of the features of the Mac Version. Only split view and spaces work. No little arc, no easels, no Arc Max, no popup, no search discovery stuff. I'm still a happy user, but don't go into it expecting the exact same thing today.

addicted 3y ago

Remember how MS wasn’t doing all this shit 5-10 years ago? It was thanks to the EU regulations on MS. Now that the limits on that had ended MS is sinking to new lows. So next time an Appleoid tells you how the horrible EU is destroying innovation by asking Apple to use the USB-C connector on its phone that it does on every other device in its lineup, remember MS. (also the fact that if it wasn’t for anti trust actions against MS by the U.S. and the EU Apple almost certainly wouldn’t exist).

dmonitor 3y ago
All the “Appleoids” i’ve come across are happy that they can finally use their macbook chargers with their iphones.
- psjs 3y ago
  Won’t that degenerate the battery at a much quicker rate?
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    USB-C controllers negotiate the correct voltage and amperage.
  - eimrine 3y ago
    All quick charge approaches do this. You'll buy a new one faster.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    No, why would it? The phone always charges as fast as it wants to, so it doesn't really matter if you connect it to a 20W or a 240W power supply.
- asdajksah2123 3y ago
  Right...but before they were happy they were complaining about the awful EU (and they still are). Here's John Gruber (who I like a lot, but you know when his Apple blinders are blinding him). https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/09/23/eu-usbc-mandate https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/09/23/eu-usbc-mandate And now they're complaining about the EU requiring Apple to open up iOS like the Mac, and they are pushing back against that. It's the regulatory version of how everything sucked until Apple did it (so multi-tasking on phones is awful, until Apple decided that actually now it's ok and now Stage Manager is the best thing since sliced bread).

alpaca128 3y ago

Maybe they should focus their efforts on finishing existing features, like the PDF annotation functionality that has no undo.

Night_Thastus 3y ago
On that note, I find it ridiculous how much better Chromium is at dealing with PDFs than Acrobat. Like, the search basically doesn't work for me in Acrobat but works fantastic in Edge/Chrome.

graypegg 3y ago

> Microsoft displays a big blue accept button to encourage Windows users to enable the feature, with a darker “not now” button if you want to opt out. I know I’m preaching to the choir, and “dark patterns” are a very surface level observation of a product, so forgive me for yelling into the HN void but… I am still so annoyed seeing “not now” in a UI. It’s so ubiquitous. I know why it’s like that, I’ve been in meetings where I’ve discussed it with UI design folk. You want to make sure users aren’t stressing about making some final un-revokable decision before they even use the app. People think it’s actually a user respecting decision. I still hate it. My proudest achievement at work in 2023 was getting an up-sell pop up to say “no” with details about where to find the deal again in the billing page displayed underneath the button.

dimask 3y ago
I interpret "no (you can change the decision later)" as respecting user decision. I interpret "not now" as "you can say no, but we may keep harassing you until you say yes" as very often is actually the case.
pyrale 3y ago
> People think it’s actually a user respecting decision. Absolutely not. "Not now" means "Fine, but we will harass you in the future, until you accept". If it was really about respecting the user, the "OK" button would also be rebranded "OK for now", which it, obviously, is never.
anonymousab 3y ago
> You want to make sure users aren’t stressing about making some final un-revokable decision before they even use the app It has never come across that way as an end user. As it has always been on some terrible change or option where the answer should be "no, now bugger off forever", I have viewed "not now" as the same as "ask me again later": an explicit thumb in the eye and statement by the software developers that they think their mandate takes priority over my preferences and that I am not qualified to make decisions about the software I run. It is a very easy way to maximize my disdain for a developer/team/org.

redder23 3y ago

Edge is the last Browser I would use. There is a Windows 11 version that you can install without Edge now if I remember and read this correctly. Its because of some EU law that requires M$ to ship without a browser. Not sure if there is also a way to actually remove it if you did not a fresh install now, when I read about it there was not.

AlexandrB 3y ago

Recently started getting a warning in Windows 10 that my computer is not Windows 11 compatible. Talk about dodging a bullet - if I had a proper TPM module (or whatever Microsoft calls it) I might have gotten an unexpected "upgrade" instead.

robotnikman 3y ago
I ended up just disabling the one on mine
- lnauta 3y ago
  I did too. And later I did a bios upgrade that enabled the chip again and suddenly windows started showing me pop ups and telling me to upgrade. After a lot of panic and powering down on an upgrade screen without a 'no' button I went to the bios and found my setting reset. Then I put a group policy in place not allowing such despicable behaviour.
  - gpvos 3y ago
    Does Microsoft have any idea of the amount of stress they cause? They clearly don't care, at least at management level, but I wonder if they are even aware.
    - justinclift 3y ago
      How could they be unaware? It's such a widely hated behaviour that tv shows take the piss out of them for it: https://youtu.be/2zpCOYkdvTQ?si=_qGffU2M3k847C3H&t=8 https://youtu.be/2zpCOYkdvTQ?si=_qGffU2M3k847C3H&t=8

robotnikman 3y ago

All I can say is, and I don't use this lightly, What the Fuck? And the fact that they are getting away with such behavior for years now is just the cherry on top, but they keep getting more brazen with their techniques over time. Who knows what they are going to do next to top this to push Edge and all their other programs down our throats?

lousken 3y ago

amazing, now onto disabling edge in my network...

baal80spam 3y ago

Let's be honest here - 99% of users would be like "Oh, neat! Saved me a ton of work!" in this case.

manuelabeledo 3y ago
Are 99% of Windows users thinking of switching from Chrome to Edge?
- reportgunner 3y ago
  They don't know the difference.
- weikju 3y ago
  "The computer said my browsing would be faster so I did it, but now I have all these coupon offers, so it's pretty cool I guess, and there's this AI thing, we live in star trek timez!!!!!! they have all my data anyway right so who cares?"

lxgr 3y ago

Something that I really like about Chrome on macOS is that it encrypts various aspects of user profiles, including (at least) the cookie jar, with a key stored in macOS Keychain, only accessible to its own binary. This reliably prevents other apps from "helpfully" peeking at Chrome cookies. I'm not sure if they also do that for the "open tabs" database, but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. I also really wish Firefox would copy this feature.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bitwize 3y ago

WONTFIX, working as designed. I'm 80% certain they want to trick users into using Edge while thinking it's Chrome. Windows is a dark-pattern cesspit.

r00fus 3y ago

Why do people put up with this abusive relationship with their hardware OS? Microsoft doing now - what they've wanted to do for 20+ years.

dijit 3y ago
Games, or so I heard. Oh and market capture: "maybe that excel spreadsheet I look at once a year won't work in OpenOffice/GDocs" ++ "My work is Microsoft so its the easier path"

bastard_op 3y ago

They're trying to pull an Apple, that you can use whatever browser you want, but they want you using their rendering engine underneath, as apple with webkit, Microsoft with edge, which is just a clone of chrome with all the google spyware replaced with Microsoft's. The problem is you're stuck with all their suckage in doing so, such as poor bastards using IOS that get no basic privacy protection in the browser with extensions like ublock origin or noscript, and Microsoft simply trying to keep themselves relevant to continue slurping your data first hand. With the web by and large having moved to using https/tls for everything, it's no longer easy to see what people are doing passively sniffing traffic, even the os, so now they build browsers to go back to watching everything you do via the rendering engine client. Even this wasn't good enough for Apple that they implemented their default-on "privacy proxy" to provide justification for running almost everything out of your phone through them network-wise too. Plus you're held to using only Apple's webkit that they release security updates constantly for, since beside imessage is the most popular infection vector to get malware on iphones. Google is trying this now too with their "privacy vpn" (ha), I'm sure monkey see monkey do Microsoft will soon too. This is why the EU is trying to force Apple to allow 3rd party rendering engines, to open up the ecosystem. Someone should really apply the same to Microsoft for doing this too. They might get sued if they just deleted chrome and told you to use Edge instead, but this passive aggressive and overreaching coercion is truly sinister they play at.

ochronus 3y ago

Such a pity, for an otherwise excellent browser :(

javcasas 3y ago
A browser full of dark patterns is not an excellent browser.
- ochronus 3y ago
  It can still be functionally good, as a browser.

kazinator 3y ago

Proprietary Browser based on Chromium ignores user wishes, diddling with another Proprietary Browser based on Chromium. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fc8wdm3ngt7ya1.jpg https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fc...