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China has the worlds largest high speed rail network. Europe is full of (lower quality, but still good) rail, mostly built during the time of centralized monarc

China has the worlds largest high speed rail network. Europe is full of (lower quality, but still good) rail, mostly built during the time of centralized monarchies. The US barely has any passenger rail because that would need large scale centralized planning. Small, individual property owners can only make small, individual changes. It optimizes for local maxima. To get past those, you need centralized planning.

unusualmonkey 3y ago
IIRC large portions of China's high speed rail might be a boondoggle... so not sure that's the best example.
- malermeister 3y ago
  I can't speak for all of it, obviously, but I've taken some of it and it seemed... pretty good? What's wrong with it?
  - unusualmonkey 3y ago
    It's losing billions of dollars. It's easy to make something people like... if you're willing to burn money.
    - malermeister 3y ago
      Infrastructure is a public service that shouldn't need to make money, which is another reason why central planning is necessary for some things.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        It was funded privately, not publicly.
    - marssaxman 3y ago
      The US federal highway system loses tens of billions of dollars a year, doesn't it? Perhaps that is a boondoggle, too.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        China used private investment to fund its rail ways, so someone is going to take a loss on this, it won’t be the Chinese government.
    - foofie 3y ago
      > It's losing billions of dollars. The US's roadway network is also a money pit. What's your point?
- foofie 3y ago
  > IIRC large portions of China's high speed rail might be a boondoggle... so not sure that's the best example. I think you need to revisit China's high speed rail. There was indeed a fair share of fraud and dubious construction options, but the end result was still the largest and most extensive high speed rail network in the world, and developed in record time. They have working world-class infrastructure, which in case of railway also has a big impact in national cohesion and nation-building. In the meantime, the US barely has conventional railway.

unusualmonkey 3y ago

IIRC large portions of China's high speed rail might be a boondoggle... so not sure that's the best example.

malermeister 3y ago
I can't speak for all of it, obviously, but I've taken some of it and it seemed... pretty good? What's wrong with it?
- unusualmonkey 3y ago
  It's losing billions of dollars. It's easy to make something people like... if you're willing to burn money.
  - malermeister 3y ago
    Infrastructure is a public service that shouldn't need to make money, which is another reason why central planning is necessary for some things.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      It was funded privately, not publicly.
  - marssaxman 3y ago
    The US federal highway system loses tens of billions of dollars a year, doesn't it? Perhaps that is a boondoggle, too.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      China used private investment to fund its rail ways, so someone is going to take a loss on this, it won’t be the Chinese government.
  - foofie 3y ago
    > It's losing billions of dollars. The US's roadway network is also a money pit. What's your point?
foofie 3y ago
> IIRC large portions of China's high speed rail might be a boondoggle... so not sure that's the best example. I think you need to revisit China's high speed rail. There was indeed a fair share of fraud and dubious construction options, but the end result was still the largest and most extensive high speed rail network in the world, and developed in record time. They have working world-class infrastructure, which in case of railway also has a big impact in national cohesion and nation-building. In the meantime, the US barely has conventional railway.