24 ms·

But there is a good historical reason for that. Facial features really are correlated with intelligence, and that correlates with status. It is not universal th

But there is a good historical reason for that. Facial features really are correlated with intelligence, and that correlates with status. It is not universal though, but a quite reliable predictor nonetheless.

klyrs 3y ago
> Facial features really are correlated with intelligence Do you have a citation for this claim? Because I spent a little effort looking, and the overwhelming majority of results were on the "perception of intelligence." The only study I found that touched your point refutes it: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/03/Face-brain-development-tightly-linked-study-finds.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/03/Face-brain-de...
- pessimizer 3y ago
  Phrenology is fully back in the mainstream now, except it's called "physiognomy" again.
  - SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
    Phrenology is entirely different discipline than judging intelligince by looking at the faces; the latter has obvious correlation with developmental defects, such Down's syndrome, fetal alcohol syndrome etc.
    - klyrs 3y ago
      Motte: judging people's intelligence based on their skin color Bailey: judging people's intelligence based visible developmental defects
      - refulgentis 3y ago
        Lol (nonironically)
      - SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
        Are you delusional? what does phrenology have to do with skin color? or facial features?
        klyrs 3y ago
        You keep making personal attacks, they're not helping your case. And yes, TFA's list of facial features includes "complexion," aka skin color. Weird hill to die on, especially if you don't actually know what you're standing for. But even facial features such as "broad, flat nose" are strongly correlated to race. And that's what you meant by "heavily politicized," isn't it? Methinks your innocence in this regard is feigned. After all, fiction writers have been leaning on racist tropes since time immemorial, doesn't that make them a valid source of truth in your line of reasoning?
        SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
        I actually do know, what is my "hill". What is yours? I grew up and live in multiracial city, where there is no paranoia about seeing racism everywhere. This is you, Americans (and Westerners in general) are traumatized by notion of being racist (because deeply inside you really are). All your posturing about being offended by seeing illusory racism in someones words is guilt overcompensation. Having said, you really seem to be too narrow minded, to understand that within any race there are faces that look smarter, irrespectively of particular features; the puzzling factor rising from the combination of the features matter. I have no problems finding the face of say Habib Koite higher IQ than face of say Yoav Gallant or some random truck driver in Gifu prefecture. I actually stressed out that observation (made by poor, accused by your being racist, fiction writers) that intelligence has complex correlation with facial features is persistent across races and time periods. What you are doing now is typical identitarian pretend-antiracist-but-really-crypto-racist notion, that blacks, asians etc. cannot have good share of stupids in their groups, or they are inferior and deprived of ability to see that difference in faces. Good luck with that, buddy.
        klyrs 3y ago
        > because deeply inside you really are Only, I'm not offended by this, because I understand that I have absorbed racist biases from my environs (not according to some hifalutin theory -- I've witnessed my own failures in this regard). Such is the human condition. You're the one getting your underwear tangled over that "accusation."
- SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
  This has been observed by countless fiction writers all these "smart deep eyes", "large foreheads" etc. Heck, even in everyday interactions we all make split second judgements about intelligence based on appearance; and we often are right. These kind of observations go against the politics of identitarian academia, so you probably won't find much of confirmation there.
  - klyrs 3y ago
    > These kind of observations go against the politics of identitarian academia, so you probably won't find much of confirmation there. You mean to say that you prefer the older identitarian politics wherein people who look different from you are less than human? Indeed, science has moved on from that, and prefer to deal with data and not unexamined biases with sources such as fiction writers.
    - SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
      No, I do not mean anything different from what I said: there is a correlation between appearance and intelligence, not perfect correspondence. The _data_ in social sciences in _unreliable_, because it is often _heavily_ _politicized_, no one wants to end up being a pariah as the authors of "The Bell Curve" had become. Fiction authors across all cultures, ideologies and epochs, reliably underscore same facial features as the sign of intelligence; if this was entirely uncorrelated with the reality, this notion would not survive many thousands years.
    - SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
      here: https://www.psypost.org/2014/03/people-can-predict-the-iq-of-men-but-not-women-by-looking-at-their-face-study-finds-24024 https://www.psypost.org/2014/03/people-can-predict-the-iq-of... "The researchers also found that the participants rated men with a high IQ as more intelligent based solely on their facial photograph. For women, however, the researchers found no statistically significant link between perceived intelligence and their actual IQ."
      - 3y ago

klyrs 3y ago

> Facial features really are correlated with intelligence Do you have a citation for this claim? Because I spent a little effort looking, and the overwhelming majority of results were on the "perception of intelligence." The only study I found that touched your point refutes it: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/03/Face-brain-development-tightly-linked-study-finds.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/03/Face-brain-de...

pessimizer 3y ago
Phrenology is fully back in the mainstream now, except it's called "physiognomy" again.
- SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
  Phrenology is entirely different discipline than judging intelligince by looking at the faces; the latter has obvious correlation with developmental defects, such Down's syndrome, fetal alcohol syndrome etc.
  - klyrs 3y ago
    Motte: judging people's intelligence based on their skin color Bailey: judging people's intelligence based visible developmental defects
    - refulgentis 3y ago
      Lol (nonironically)
    - SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
      Are you delusional? what does phrenology have to do with skin color? or facial features?
      - klyrs 3y ago
        You keep making personal attacks, they're not helping your case. And yes, TFA's list of facial features includes "complexion," aka skin color. Weird hill to die on, especially if you don't actually know what you're standing for. But even facial features such as "broad, flat nose" are strongly correlated to race. And that's what you meant by "heavily politicized," isn't it? Methinks your innocence in this regard is feigned. After all, fiction writers have been leaning on racist tropes since time immemorial, doesn't that make them a valid source of truth in your line of reasoning?
        SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
        I actually do know, what is my "hill". What is yours? I grew up and live in multiracial city, where there is no paranoia about seeing racism everywhere. This is you, Americans (and Westerners in general) are traumatized by notion of being racist (because deeply inside you really are). All your posturing about being offended by seeing illusory racism in someones words is guilt overcompensation. Having said, you really seem to be too narrow minded, to understand that within any race there are faces that look smarter, irrespectively of particular features; the puzzling factor rising from the combination of the features matter. I have no problems finding the face of say Habib Koite higher IQ than face of say Yoav Gallant or some random truck driver in Gifu prefecture. I actually stressed out that observation (made by poor, accused by your being racist, fiction writers) that intelligence has complex correlation with facial features is persistent across races and time periods. What you are doing now is typical identitarian pretend-antiracist-but-really-crypto-racist notion, that blacks, asians etc. cannot have good share of stupids in their groups, or they are inferior and deprived of ability to see that difference in faces. Good luck with that, buddy.
        klyrs 3y ago
        > because deeply inside you really are Only, I'm not offended by this, because I understand that I have absorbed racist biases from my environs (not according to some hifalutin theory -- I've witnessed my own failures in this regard). Such is the human condition. You're the one getting your underwear tangled over that "accusation."
SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
This has been observed by countless fiction writers all these "smart deep eyes", "large foreheads" etc. Heck, even in everyday interactions we all make split second judgements about intelligence based on appearance; and we often are right. These kind of observations go against the politics of identitarian academia, so you probably won't find much of confirmation there.
- klyrs 3y ago
  > These kind of observations go against the politics of identitarian academia, so you probably won't find much of confirmation there. You mean to say that you prefer the older identitarian politics wherein people who look different from you are less than human? Indeed, science has moved on from that, and prefer to deal with data and not unexamined biases with sources such as fiction writers.
  - SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
    No, I do not mean anything different from what I said: there is a correlation between appearance and intelligence, not perfect correspondence. The _data_ in social sciences in _unreliable_, because it is often _heavily_ _politicized_, no one wants to end up being a pariah as the authors of "The Bell Curve" had become. Fiction authors across all cultures, ideologies and epochs, reliably underscore same facial features as the sign of intelligence; if this was entirely uncorrelated with the reality, this notion would not survive many thousands years.
  - SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
    here: https://www.psypost.org/2014/03/people-can-predict-the-iq-of-men-but-not-women-by-looking-at-their-face-study-finds-24024 https://www.psypost.org/2014/03/people-can-predict-the-iq-of... "The researchers also found that the participants rated men with a high IQ as more intelligent based solely on their facial photograph. For women, however, the researchers found no statistically significant link between perceived intelligence and their actual IQ."
    - 3y ago