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Less people being willing to go fight and die in pointless wars is at least a small positive sign for society.

huytersd 3y ago
Not a good sign for a country that depends on its military to maintain a hegemony. It’s also not like our “enemies” are reducing their armies or anything.
- abestic9 3y ago
  It’s not a numbers game anymore, it hasn’t been for decades.
  - chii 3y ago
    in an all out war, it certainly is a numbers game. There just hasn't been all out war in decades, but that doesn't mean one isn't around the corner. Being prepared is better than not.
    - RankingMember 3y ago
      What constitutes an all-out war in the modern era? If it includes nukes, numbers have little value. Even pulling nukes out of the equation, modern armaments make the idea of overwhelming the US with bodies storming the shores/borders an almost certainly futile strategy.
    - petre 3y ago
      Except those numbers now translate into money and resources needed to build units. In the past the units were human.
- pizza 3y ago
  Thought it was the dollar
  - huytersd 3y ago
    The dollar is the dollar because of the military.
- MangoCoffee 3y ago
  human wave is not the game. The Ukraine-Russia war has shown us how important the technology is. The whole war is fighting with drones to detect and kill enemies.
  - petre 3y ago
    At least in the current Ukraine context: tech + a lot of dumb 155 mm shells, highly mobile artillery. Although guided shells would be even more useful if they were cheaper to build. Russia's human waves were just means to reduce the prison population: practical stalinism 101. They are phasing out prisoner benefits as the recruiting pool is getting smaller. Also there is an increased chance Putin might order be mass mobilization after he wins the elections in May.
    - CapricornNoble 3y ago
      > Also there is an increased chance Putin might order be mass mobilization after he wins the elections in May. Increased but still highly unlikely. The Russian military inducts ~260,000 men annually just from conscription. Now that the Ukrainians have exhausted their supplies of ammunition, manpower, and funding, it's unlikely that the AFU can sustain its ability to attrite Russian manpower faster than it can be replaced.
      - petre 3y ago
        The only way for Putin to win in Ukraine is to open new frontlines in Europe to divert attention and resources. And the most likely place is between the Baltics and Poland. That's exactly why part of Steadfast Defender 2024 exercise is taking place there. A surprisingly straightforward article from Xinhua correspondent Zhang Zhang: "The central locations involved in the drill are the Baltic nations, identified by NATO as particularly vulnerable to a possible Russian assault. Other areas include Norway and Romania, situated on the outskirts of the alliance; Poland on the alliance's eastern flank; and Germany as a central hub for reinforcements." https://english.news.cn/20240128/95fbdec4ab7b4285b8f017ffeb175166/c.html https://english.news.cn/20240128/95fbdec4ab7b4285b8f017ffeb1...
  - 3y ago
ken47 3y ago
Then be prepared for you or your family to be drafted if war breaks out with a formidable foe.
ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago
It’s not 2003 anymore. Current and likely-upcoming wars are very important.
- BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
  In my opinion, they need to be important enough to be worth murdering and mutilating lots of young people before you can call them important, which is rare. I’d argue 95+% of human wars have been worthless by this metric.
- mindslight 3y ago
  It may not be 2003 any longer, but what happened then is still reverberating. Seeing the US military and so many lives just get utterly squandered running imperial errands for the president's daddy's friends. Who wouldn't strongly discourage their own kids from putting themselves in such a vulnerable position, or be skeptical of the claim that the next war might actually be important? Similarly so much of Russia's current war propaganda is repurposed anti-war themes from Iraq and Afghanistan. The US has screwed around aggressively intervening around the globe for so long, that it's all too easy to pigeonhole what actually appears to be reasonable support for a would-be ally into the same bag. And now the chief opponents of such aid are actually the same party that led us into those useless wars! "Can't get fooled again" Those wars really were a total waste of our country's resources, international stature, and so much of our future. It was seen by so many at the time, including our allies. But the war boosters ruled the day, drunk on corporate/nationalist propaganda and those fucking yellow "support our troops" bracelets, as if the soldiers coming home wouldn't end up being some of the strongest anti-war voices. And now here we are.
  - ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago
    Oh yes, heads should have rolled for the instigation of the Iraq War. The damage they caused is immense and will be felt for generations.
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    > it's all too easy to pigeonhole what actually appears to be reasonable support for a would-be ally into the same bag. This seems to imply that Soviet intervention into an American war declared over the Cuban Missile Crisis would have been fairly characterized as "reasonable support for a would-be [in this case, already formalized] ally".
dwheeler 3y ago
For a country to exist, it needs a military or an ally with one. It's easy to have no military, as long as you don't mind being completely controlled by a country with one.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jkmcf 3y ago
  TL;DR: Costa Rica has no threatening armies around it, so they don't need one. https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2ycu1f/comment/cp8kmmk/?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2ycu1f/c... There's also a bit about Panama being chill (possibly because of all the business generated by the canal), and Nicaragua basically held in place by international law.
CubsFan1060 3y ago
This only feels like a positive thing if there are no “bad guys” in the world.
- BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
  Or if you’re a young man who wants to, you know, live.
  - dimgl 3y ago
    This should scare young men because drafts exist.
    - archagon 3y ago
      A draftee always has the choice to not go. Barring a tyrannical regime that sends them in as cannon fodder, they may stay in prison until the tides turn, but they will live.
      - BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
        How much pressure must one apply before a choice is no longer a choice?
pstuart 3y ago
I grew up in an "anti-military" household but tried to sign up when I had no opportunities after leaving high school without a diploma (and was turned away). I wasn't trying to sign up to fight -- just to survive. It's clear that many who do sign up do so for the same reason. We collectively agreed on a national jobs program (via the military), so we should consider redirecting a significant portion of those jobs to a national jobs program that actually helps with domestic infrastructure with an emphasis on learning skills that translate into private sector opportunities. Then let those that do want to fight be the ones to sign up, and make more effective use of them. I'm still not a fan of the military industrial complex but national defense will always be necessary and should be staffed for defense rather than just keeping people off the dole.
hayst4ck 3y ago
Neutrality is support for might makes right. Choosing to be neutral is to say that the strongest party should win. Not being prepared to be violent makes you harmless. Having the capacity for violence and choosing not to use it makes you peaceful. If you speak softly, but don't carry a big stick, then you are just speaking softly. Might might not make right, but it determines who gets to make the rules.
- petre 3y ago
  Then you get something like the KPA (North Korean army): not very good at fighting wars but quite good at construction work. In order to have a capable military, it needs to fight wars. Hence all the countries joining the US in Afghanistan to achieve valuable on the field training. What use is a big stick, other than intimidation, when you just carry it around, not knowing how to actually use it? Future recruits will also need to be good at E-sports, as they'll increasingly be in charge of drone operations.
  - paganel 3y ago
    The drone thing is just a fantasy some of us nerds like to tell ourselves, I've seen it in some reddit subs, too. As per North Korea, they were able to come up with 1 million artillery shells for their friends the Russians, while the West couldn't do the same for their friends the Ukrainians [1], I'd say that North Korea got the better of the West here. [1] https://unn.ua/en/news/it-seems-that-north-korea-is-a-more-effective-partner-for-russia-than-friends-who-supply-ukraine-with-artillery-ammunition-kuleba https://unn.ua/en/news/it-seems-that-north-korea-is-a-more-e...
    - Krasnol 3y ago
      We'll see about that when the war is over. At the moment it's not NKs shells that keep the war rolling but the huge Russian population which allows for a seemingly endless supply of corpses to be.
      - graphe 3y ago
seydor 3y ago
Even the poorest are refusing to be sent
cscurmudgeon 3y ago
Non sequitur. Having a strong military may result in fewer deaths.

Not a good sign for a country that depends on its military to maintain a hegemony. It’s also not like our “enemies” are reducing their armies or anything.

abestic9 3y ago
It’s not a numbers game anymore, it hasn’t been for decades.
- chii 3y ago
  in an all out war, it certainly is a numbers game. There just hasn't been all out war in decades, but that doesn't mean one isn't around the corner. Being prepared is better than not.
  - RankingMember 3y ago
    What constitutes an all-out war in the modern era? If it includes nukes, numbers have little value. Even pulling nukes out of the equation, modern armaments make the idea of overwhelming the US with bodies storming the shores/borders an almost certainly futile strategy.
  - petre 3y ago
    Except those numbers now translate into money and resources needed to build units. In the past the units were human.
pizza 3y ago
Thought it was the dollar
- huytersd 3y ago
  The dollar is the dollar because of the military.
MangoCoffee 3y ago
human wave is not the game. The Ukraine-Russia war has shown us how important the technology is. The whole war is fighting with drones to detect and kill enemies.
- petre 3y ago
  At least in the current Ukraine context: tech + a lot of dumb 155 mm shells, highly mobile artillery. Although guided shells would be even more useful if they were cheaper to build. Russia's human waves were just means to reduce the prison population: practical stalinism 101. They are phasing out prisoner benefits as the recruiting pool is getting smaller. Also there is an increased chance Putin might order be mass mobilization after he wins the elections in May.
  - CapricornNoble 3y ago
    > Also there is an increased chance Putin might order be mass mobilization after he wins the elections in May. Increased but still highly unlikely. The Russian military inducts ~260,000 men annually just from conscription. Now that the Ukrainians have exhausted their supplies of ammunition, manpower, and funding, it's unlikely that the AFU can sustain its ability to attrite Russian manpower faster than it can be replaced.
    - petre 3y ago
      The only way for Putin to win in Ukraine is to open new frontlines in Europe to divert attention and resources. And the most likely place is between the Baltics and Poland. That's exactly why part of Steadfast Defender 2024 exercise is taking place there. A surprisingly straightforward article from Xinhua correspondent Zhang Zhang: "The central locations involved in the drill are the Baltic nations, identified by NATO as particularly vulnerable to a possible Russian assault. Other areas include Norway and Romania, situated on the outskirts of the alliance; Poland on the alliance's eastern flank; and Germany as a central hub for reinforcements." https://english.news.cn/20240128/95fbdec4ab7b4285b8f017ffeb175166/c.html https://english.news.cn/20240128/95fbdec4ab7b4285b8f017ffeb1...
- 3y ago

ken47 3y ago

Then be prepared for you or your family to be drafted if war breaks out with a formidable foe.

ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago

It’s not 2003 anymore. Current and likely-upcoming wars are very important.

BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
In my opinion, they need to be important enough to be worth murdering and mutilating lots of young people before you can call them important, which is rare. I’d argue 95+% of human wars have been worthless by this metric.
mindslight 3y ago
It may not be 2003 any longer, but what happened then is still reverberating. Seeing the US military and so many lives just get utterly squandered running imperial errands for the president's daddy's friends. Who wouldn't strongly discourage their own kids from putting themselves in such a vulnerable position, or be skeptical of the claim that the next war might actually be important? Similarly so much of Russia's current war propaganda is repurposed anti-war themes from Iraq and Afghanistan. The US has screwed around aggressively intervening around the globe for so long, that it's all too easy to pigeonhole what actually appears to be reasonable support for a would-be ally into the same bag. And now the chief opponents of such aid are actually the same party that led us into those useless wars! "Can't get fooled again" Those wars really were a total waste of our country's resources, international stature, and so much of our future. It was seen by so many at the time, including our allies. But the war boosters ruled the day, drunk on corporate/nationalist propaganda and those fucking yellow "support our troops" bracelets, as if the soldiers coming home wouldn't end up being some of the strongest anti-war voices. And now here we are.
- ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago
  Oh yes, heads should have rolled for the instigation of the Iraq War. The damage they caused is immense and will be felt for generations.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  > it's all too easy to pigeonhole what actually appears to be reasonable support for a would-be ally into the same bag. This seems to imply that Soviet intervention into an American war declared over the Cuban Missile Crisis would have been fairly characterized as "reasonable support for a would-be [in this case, already formalized] ally".

dwheeler 3y ago

For a country to exist, it needs a military or an ally with one. It's easy to have no military, as long as you don't mind being completely controlled by a country with one.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jkmcf 3y ago
TL;DR: Costa Rica has no threatening armies around it, so they don't need one. https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2ycu1f/comment/cp8kmmk/?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2ycu1f/c... There's also a bit about Panama being chill (possibly because of all the business generated by the canal), and Nicaragua basically held in place by international law.

CubsFan1060 3y ago

This only feels like a positive thing if there are no “bad guys” in the world.

BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
Or if you’re a young man who wants to, you know, live.
- dimgl 3y ago
  This should scare young men because drafts exist.
  - archagon 3y ago
    A draftee always has the choice to not go. Barring a tyrannical regime that sends them in as cannon fodder, they may stay in prison until the tides turn, but they will live.
    - BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
      How much pressure must one apply before a choice is no longer a choice?

pstuart 3y ago

I grew up in an "anti-military" household but tried to sign up when I had no opportunities after leaving high school without a diploma (and was turned away). I wasn't trying to sign up to fight -- just to survive. It's clear that many who do sign up do so for the same reason. We collectively agreed on a national jobs program (via the military), so we should consider redirecting a significant portion of those jobs to a national jobs program that actually helps with domestic infrastructure with an emphasis on learning skills that translate into private sector opportunities. Then let those that do want to fight be the ones to sign up, and make more effective use of them. I'm still not a fan of the military industrial complex but national defense will always be necessary and should be staffed for defense rather than just keeping people off the dole.

hayst4ck 3y ago

Neutrality is support for might makes right. Choosing to be neutral is to say that the strongest party should win. Not being prepared to be violent makes you harmless. Having the capacity for violence and choosing not to use it makes you peaceful. If you speak softly, but don't carry a big stick, then you are just speaking softly. Might might not make right, but it determines who gets to make the rules.

petre 3y ago
Then you get something like the KPA (North Korean army): not very good at fighting wars but quite good at construction work. In order to have a capable military, it needs to fight wars. Hence all the countries joining the US in Afghanistan to achieve valuable on the field training. What use is a big stick, other than intimidation, when you just carry it around, not knowing how to actually use it? Future recruits will also need to be good at E-sports, as they'll increasingly be in charge of drone operations.
- paganel 3y ago
  The drone thing is just a fantasy some of us nerds like to tell ourselves, I've seen it in some reddit subs, too. As per North Korea, they were able to come up with 1 million artillery shells for their friends the Russians, while the West couldn't do the same for their friends the Ukrainians [1], I'd say that North Korea got the better of the West here. [1] https://unn.ua/en/news/it-seems-that-north-korea-is-a-more-effective-partner-for-russia-than-friends-who-supply-ukraine-with-artillery-ammunition-kuleba https://unn.ua/en/news/it-seems-that-north-korea-is-a-more-e...
  - Krasnol 3y ago
    We'll see about that when the war is over. At the moment it's not NKs shells that keep the war rolling but the huge Russian population which allows for a seemingly endless supply of corpses to be.
    - graphe 3y ago

seydor 3y ago

Even the poorest are refusing to be sent

cscurmudgeon 3y ago

Non sequitur. Having a strong military may result in fewer deaths.