6 ms·

Why does a country that is apparently doing nothing wrong have the most advanced PR and propaganda machine in the world?

llimos 3y ago
[flagged]
- goodSteveramos 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ericfrazier 3y ago
    Nothing they haven't been pushed to.
    - goodSteveramos 3y ago
      What do you mean?
    - impossiblefork 3y ago
      What about their attempts to push out the Armenians from Jerusalem, or seizure of the property in Beit Sahour? What pushed them to that?
  - llimos 3y ago
    Israel in its current form has existed for ~2.2% of the history of the Jewish people. Antisemitism has existed for most of that time. If Israel wasn't Jewish, it wouldn't need the PR. See: all the other countries doing far worse things, that nobody cares about.
    - mdni007 3y ago
      Who would've thought creating a nation within the territory of another would be met with hatred from those who's homes were stolen...
    - goodSteveramos 3y ago
      So as long as Israel is jewish we should let it do whatever it wants? What exactly would Israel have to do to the Palestinians before they cross the line in your opinion?
      - llimos 3y ago
        No, I'm not saying you should let it do whatever it wants. I'm saying you shouldn't have a double standard where only Israel's victims get you exercised and not those of China[1], Russia[2], Syria[3], Sudan[4], Pakistan[5], Turkey[6], Yemen[7] and more. This isn't whataboutism. This is asking about a double standard. The world failed to get anywhere near as excited about the other cases. If that applies to you as well, I'd love to hear an explanation why that doesn't include the J-word. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Sudan_(2023%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Sudan_(2023%E2%80%93pre... [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_undocumented_Afghans_from_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_undocumented_Af... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purges_in_Turkey_(2016%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purges_in_Turkey_(2016%E2%80%9... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_civil_war_(2014%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_civil_war_(2014%E2%80%9...
        goodSteveramos 3y ago
        I agree with you. Israel’s mistreatment of Palestinians should stop and the mistreatment those countries do should also stop and I don’t think we should let any of those countries do want they want with the excuse that some other country is also doing a similar bad thing. I also think that when criticizing China we don’t need to bring up criticism of Israel in some kind of “equal criticism” principle to avoid offending China or visa vera.
        llimos 3y ago
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      Countries can change wildly in a generation. They don't get a good behavior pass for historical dates when different people were in power or even alive.
- aspenmayer 3y ago
  > “This level of organization only exists on one side of the conflict,” said Emerson T. Brooking, a former cyber policy adviser to the Defense Department who studies disinformation and propaganda campaigns as a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab. “It exists for pro-Israel voices, and it exists because there are government ministries in Israel that support these tools and encourage their use.” > Brooking and other experts said they aren’t aware of any similar tools for Palestinian supporters.
  - goodSteveramos 3y ago
    Palestinian supporters could use the same apps and just comment with support instead of abusing the reporting system on pro-Palestine posts.
hayst4ck 3y ago
I think that is probably an exaggeration. I don't see a lot of reason to believe they have the most advanced machine and I don't buy that their PR machine exists to ameliorate ethical lapses. PR/Propaganda is power and all regimes want power. I've seen incredible amounts of (justfied) anti-Israeli action press, so I don't particularly believe they have a wildly successful PR machine either. China, the US, and Russia are all clearly advanced. Facebook alone got significant press for weighing in substantially on elections across the world. Twitter, before Elon, was used to coordinate against despotic regimes all over the world. Hollywood alone has incredible soft and hard power. NSO group's Pegasus, and their selling software to despotic regimes so that they can find and torture/murder/scare journalists is much more telling of Israel's ethical core, as is their bombing of associated press offices. Seeking power is not mens rea, directly harming those who would report your misdeeds is.
- __jambo 3y ago
  > Hollywood has.. hard power Um, what??
snird 3y ago
Because most of the Muslim world shares false propaganda against them, and they are billions of people against ~10 million? Why does tech used have any effect on what is true? If you don't fear the truth, you should be happy that the minority has the tools to get more data out.
- cornercasechase 3y ago
  Israelis on TikTok and Israeli leadership make the best case against Zionism. They’re openly racist and genocidal. As someone who’s not religious it’s clear the Palestinians have the moral high ground by a long shot.
  - snird 3y ago
    Palestinians have higher moral ground by raping innocent teenagers and then shooting them in the head? Yeah, some moral high ground. Your comment tells more about you than about this conflict.
    - cornercasechase 3y ago
      Palestinians have the moral high ground because it was their land that was invaded in 1948 and they been oppressed by Israel ever since. The “rapes” have been discredited over and over. One of the many things Israel does that is very obvious to outside observers is to lie constantly in the most obvious of fashions.
Protostome 3y ago
Well, that's because the premise of actions or policies being "right" or "wrong" is very simplistic. Both sides are active in the PR front, you think those "free palestine" rallies organize themselves?

llimos 3y ago

[flagged]

goodSteveramos 3y ago
[flagged]
- ericfrazier 3y ago
  Nothing they haven't been pushed to.
  - goodSteveramos 3y ago
    What do you mean?
  - impossiblefork 3y ago
    What about their attempts to push out the Armenians from Jerusalem, or seizure of the property in Beit Sahour? What pushed them to that?
- llimos 3y ago
  Israel in its current form has existed for ~2.2% of the history of the Jewish people. Antisemitism has existed for most of that time. If Israel wasn't Jewish, it wouldn't need the PR. See: all the other countries doing far worse things, that nobody cares about.
  - mdni007 3y ago
    Who would've thought creating a nation within the territory of another would be met with hatred from those who's homes were stolen...
  - goodSteveramos 3y ago
    So as long as Israel is jewish we should let it do whatever it wants? What exactly would Israel have to do to the Palestinians before they cross the line in your opinion?
    - llimos 3y ago
      No, I'm not saying you should let it do whatever it wants. I'm saying you shouldn't have a double standard where only Israel's victims get you exercised and not those of China[1], Russia[2], Syria[3], Sudan[4], Pakistan[5], Turkey[6], Yemen[7] and more. This isn't whataboutism. This is asking about a double standard. The world failed to get anywhere near as excited about the other cases. If that applies to you as well, I'd love to hear an explanation why that doesn't include the J-word. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Sudan_(2023%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Sudan_(2023%E2%80%93pre... [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_undocumented_Afghans_from_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_undocumented_Af... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purges_in_Turkey_(2016%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purges_in_Turkey_(2016%E2%80%9... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_civil_war_(2014%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_civil_war_(2014%E2%80%9...
      - goodSteveramos 3y ago
        I agree with you. Israel’s mistreatment of Palestinians should stop and the mistreatment those countries do should also stop and I don’t think we should let any of those countries do want they want with the excuse that some other country is also doing a similar bad thing. I also think that when criticizing China we don’t need to bring up criticism of Israel in some kind of “equal criticism” principle to avoid offending China or visa vera.
        llimos 3y ago
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    Countries can change wildly in a generation. They don't get a good behavior pass for historical dates when different people were in power or even alive.
aspenmayer 3y ago
> “This level of organization only exists on one side of the conflict,” said Emerson T. Brooking, a former cyber policy adviser to the Defense Department who studies disinformation and propaganda campaigns as a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab. “It exists for pro-Israel voices, and it exists because there are government ministries in Israel that support these tools and encourage their use.” > Brooking and other experts said they aren’t aware of any similar tools for Palestinian supporters.
- goodSteveramos 3y ago
  Palestinian supporters could use the same apps and just comment with support instead of abusing the reporting system on pro-Palestine posts.

hayst4ck 3y ago

I think that is probably an exaggeration. I don't see a lot of reason to believe they have the most advanced machine and I don't buy that their PR machine exists to ameliorate ethical lapses. PR/Propaganda is power and all regimes want power. I've seen incredible amounts of (justfied) anti-Israeli action press, so I don't particularly believe they have a wildly successful PR machine either. China, the US, and Russia are all clearly advanced. Facebook alone got significant press for weighing in substantially on elections across the world. Twitter, before Elon, was used to coordinate against despotic regimes all over the world. Hollywood alone has incredible soft and hard power. NSO group's Pegasus, and their selling software to despotic regimes so that they can find and torture/murder/scare journalists is much more telling of Israel's ethical core, as is their bombing of associated press offices. Seeking power is not mens rea, directly harming those who would report your misdeeds is.

__jambo 3y ago
> Hollywood has.. hard power Um, what??

snird 3y ago

Because most of the Muslim world shares false propaganda against them, and they are billions of people against ~10 million? Why does tech used have any effect on what is true? If you don't fear the truth, you should be happy that the minority has the tools to get more data out.

cornercasechase 3y ago
Israelis on TikTok and Israeli leadership make the best case against Zionism. They’re openly racist and genocidal. As someone who’s not religious it’s clear the Palestinians have the moral high ground by a long shot.
- snird 3y ago
  Palestinians have higher moral ground by raping innocent teenagers and then shooting them in the head? Yeah, some moral high ground. Your comment tells more about you than about this conflict.
  - cornercasechase 3y ago
    Palestinians have the moral high ground because it was their land that was invaded in 1948 and they been oppressed by Israel ever since. The “rapes” have been discredited over and over. One of the many things Israel does that is very obvious to outside observers is to lie constantly in the most obvious of fashions.

Protostome 3y ago

Well, that's because the premise of actions or policies being "right" or "wrong" is very simplistic. Both sides are active in the PR front, you think those "free palestine" rallies organize themselves?