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So much WTF in this article, like the regenerative braking thing as if the torque for both regular braking and regenerative braking doesn't have to be put throu

So much WTF in this article, like the regenerative braking thing as if the torque for both regular braking and regenerative braking doesn't have to be put through the tyres to slow things down. I definitely buy people with EVs hooning it around the place wrecking their tyres. It is really easy and fun to make use of all that torque. But it's not actually required.

simfree 3y ago
It's Wyoming, the drivers who have EVs are probably burning up quite a bit of rubber with harsh accelerations and decelerations unlike the median driver elsewhere. Only 800 people in the state even own an EV. As one of the select few EV owners you can easily accelerate past the vast majority of the other cars on the road in Wyoming.
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  There's about to be a few more as UPS and FedEx are getting EV's here in Wyoming soon. I am looking forward to hearing their experiences in EV delivery trucks.
I_Am_Nous 3y ago
>He also speculated that “regenerative breaking,” where tires work really hard to stop due to torque stress instead of friction braking in gas-powered cars, as another possible wearing effect on tires. A visual is a “twisting effect” of what happens with a dragster’s tires when a driver peels out, he said. Those tires have a shelf-life of roughly a mile-and-a-half when the soft, burning rubber vulcanizes and cracks. I'm not sure I follow what you mean when you say regenerative braking doesn't have to be put through the tires. The only reason you can do regenerative braking is because the vehicle inertia wants to keep going forward, so you allow that rotation to be used to drive the rotor and generate electricity. The ground resisting that rotation is required for the motor to have a generative load put on it. Either way it's still more you are asking the tire to withstand.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  He's saying that both regenerative braking and normal braking go through the tires. Both wear down tires via the same mechanism, so the call out in the article is BS.
  - jtc331 3y ago
    In fact they're both just means of generating the same essential force: rotational resistance on the axle.
  - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
    Thank you, I'm following now.
reactordev 3y ago
By design, braking introduces drag onto the brake disc and in turn creates drag on the wheel. This drag is in opposition to forward momentum and so the rubber of the tyre flexes and gives to these forces a little at a time - resulting in slowing your forward momentum. A rail car without rubber takes 10x-50x the distance to brake due to steel on steel friction. Rubber is consumed from the tyre during acceleration, deceleration, and turning. Little rubber granules will roll off. The only time this isn’t happening is when the tyres aren’t in motion. This is why you bring extra tyres to track day.
- raverbashing 3y ago
  Correct. I don't see why regenerative braking would be any different Tire wear would be a factor of deceleration, regardless if it's from a traditional brake or electrical braking
  - silversmith 3y ago
    One possibility - if you do regen braking as in one pedal driving, there is a lot less coasting to stop, and I imagine that is less stressful on the tires.
    - jtc331 3y ago
      It's an interesting idea, but in general you don't come most of the way to a stop coasting in an ICE car unless you're already at a low speed. Usually you coast some, and then you have to brake significantly still.
  - reactordev 3y ago
    When the wheel is just coasting (no additional torque supplied) you have the least amount of friction (assuming you’re going in a straight line) against the rubber. The issue with fly-by-wire systems is there’s no coasting. An ECU is constantly supplying PWM like torque pulses to the wheels to keep the speed constant. My OneWheel burns through rubber because of this. My EV as well. Yet my ICE vehicles or vehicles with a CVT/Open Diff that let the wheels run free don’t suffer from having to change the tires every few months. I believe that’s in corroboration with what the article is claiming. The soft compound tires for ride comfort get absolutely chewed. There’s ripple like wear from the motors.
rented_mule 3y ago
I also cannot see why regenerative braking alone is any different, in terms of tire wear, than caliper-on-rotor braking used for the same deceleration. There is something associated with regenerative breaking that I can see being a tire wear issue... one pedal driving. In an ICE car, oscillating around the proper pedal position needed to maintain a particular speed leads to a cycle of coasting (not so hard on tires) and accelerating (harder on tires). With one pedal driving, at least with excessive oscillation, the cycle consists of regenerative breaking (harder on tires than coasting) and potentially more acceleration because the car slowed more rapidly. The more consistent you are at maintaining pedal position, the less the difference. This might be best exhibited in downhill driving. An EV nudges the driver to be intentional about their downhill speed by applying regenerative braking, thereby requiring the driver to push the pedal down to reduce the braking. But on steep enough hills, there is still some braking. In an ICE vehicle, the driver might be more prone to just coast and let the car go a bit faster than they would have intentionally chosen.
- thrill 3y ago
  It is generally trivial to maintain a steady speed with one pedal driving.
  - rented_mule 3y ago
    I think you're absolutely right, assuming the driver is paying attention. Too many don't. I encounter a lot of people bouncing around in a 10-15 mph range (sometimes 20-30 mph) on the highway while they are looking at their phone. This happens in all kinds of vehicles, but the coasting vs. regenerative braking impact on tires emerges in these situations.
r00fus 3y ago
I drove my Focus EV like a madman for 6 years and only recently changed my tires. Sure it’s lighter than a model Y or even a Leaf but it has decent acceleration if you know how to drive it.

simfree 3y ago

It's Wyoming, the drivers who have EVs are probably burning up quite a bit of rubber with harsh accelerations and decelerations unlike the median driver elsewhere. Only 800 people in the state even own an EV. As one of the select few EV owners you can easily accelerate past the vast majority of the other cars on the road in Wyoming.

LinuxBender 3y ago
There's about to be a few more as UPS and FedEx are getting EV's here in Wyoming soon. I am looking forward to hearing their experiences in EV delivery trucks.

I_Am_Nous 3y ago

>He also speculated that “regenerative breaking,” where tires work really hard to stop due to torque stress instead of friction braking in gas-powered cars, as another possible wearing effect on tires. A visual is a “twisting effect” of what happens with a dragster’s tires when a driver peels out, he said. Those tires have a shelf-life of roughly a mile-and-a-half when the soft, burning rubber vulcanizes and cracks. I'm not sure I follow what you mean when you say regenerative braking doesn't have to be put through the tires. The only reason you can do regenerative braking is because the vehicle inertia wants to keep going forward, so you allow that rotation to be used to drive the rotor and generate electricity. The ground resisting that rotation is required for the motor to have a generative load put on it. Either way it's still more you are asking the tire to withstand.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
He's saying that both regenerative braking and normal braking go through the tires. Both wear down tires via the same mechanism, so the call out in the article is BS.
- jtc331 3y ago
  In fact they're both just means of generating the same essential force: rotational resistance on the axle.
- I_Am_Nous 3y ago
  Thank you, I'm following now.

reactordev 3y ago

By design, braking introduces drag onto the brake disc and in turn creates drag on the wheel. This drag is in opposition to forward momentum and so the rubber of the tyre flexes and gives to these forces a little at a time - resulting in slowing your forward momentum. A rail car without rubber takes 10x-50x the distance to brake due to steel on steel friction. Rubber is consumed from the tyre during acceleration, deceleration, and turning. Little rubber granules will roll off. The only time this isn’t happening is when the tyres aren’t in motion. This is why you bring extra tyres to track day.

raverbashing 3y ago
Correct. I don't see why regenerative braking would be any different Tire wear would be a factor of deceleration, regardless if it's from a traditional brake or electrical braking
- silversmith 3y ago
  One possibility - if you do regen braking as in one pedal driving, there is a lot less coasting to stop, and I imagine that is less stressful on the tires.
  - jtc331 3y ago
    It's an interesting idea, but in general you don't come most of the way to a stop coasting in an ICE car unless you're already at a low speed. Usually you coast some, and then you have to brake significantly still.
- reactordev 3y ago
  When the wheel is just coasting (no additional torque supplied) you have the least amount of friction (assuming you’re going in a straight line) against the rubber. The issue with fly-by-wire systems is there’s no coasting. An ECU is constantly supplying PWM like torque pulses to the wheels to keep the speed constant. My OneWheel burns through rubber because of this. My EV as well. Yet my ICE vehicles or vehicles with a CVT/Open Diff that let the wheels run free don’t suffer from having to change the tires every few months. I believe that’s in corroboration with what the article is claiming. The soft compound tires for ride comfort get absolutely chewed. There’s ripple like wear from the motors.

rented_mule 3y ago

I also cannot see why regenerative braking alone is any different, in terms of tire wear, than caliper-on-rotor braking used for the same deceleration. There is something associated with regenerative breaking that I can see being a tire wear issue... one pedal driving. In an ICE car, oscillating around the proper pedal position needed to maintain a particular speed leads to a cycle of coasting (not so hard on tires) and accelerating (harder on tires). With one pedal driving, at least with excessive oscillation, the cycle consists of regenerative breaking (harder on tires than coasting) and potentially more acceleration because the car slowed more rapidly. The more consistent you are at maintaining pedal position, the less the difference. This might be best exhibited in downhill driving. An EV nudges the driver to be intentional about their downhill speed by applying regenerative braking, thereby requiring the driver to push the pedal down to reduce the braking. But on steep enough hills, there is still some braking. In an ICE vehicle, the driver might be more prone to just coast and let the car go a bit faster than they would have intentionally chosen.

thrill 3y ago
It is generally trivial to maintain a steady speed with one pedal driving.
- rented_mule 3y ago
  I think you're absolutely right, assuming the driver is paying attention. Too many don't. I encounter a lot of people bouncing around in a 10-15 mph range (sometimes 20-30 mph) on the highway while they are looking at their phone. This happens in all kinds of vehicles, but the coasting vs. regenerative braking impact on tires emerges in these situations.

r00fus 3y ago

I drove my Focus EV like a madman for 6 years and only recently changed my tires. Sure it’s lighter than a model Y or even a Leaf but it has decent acceleration if you know how to drive it.