5 ms·

Or another reason to go with a real computer on eBay vs a RPi and loads of other equipment.

by pierat 3y ago

Jabrov 3y ago
According to the article, this has nothing to do with Pi and is more about WPA3 itself
- vlovich123 3y ago
  Unclear if WPA3 or this specific Infineon chip. Most likely it’s a chip issue where some counter overflows or something and suddenly the crypto starts failing.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    My read was it’s the chip/driver combo. And the Pi is not the only thing to use that chip, it’s just very popular. So even if one’s attitude is “get a real computer” like the first post in this thread you may still find yourself with this same chip.
    - tialaramex 3y ago
      I can easily buy either 1. The chip works perfectly but it's documented badly/ wrongly, e.g. doesn't spell out the whole strategy needed for a periodic key renewal or does so confusingly - driver is written to match the docs or at least the best understanding of these docs, and unfortunately this defect arises after 10 hours but devs with the actual docs have never tested for that long. 2. The chip has a bug, it's not possible to use it correctly per se. Every few hours, just reset it and start over, thus a "good" driver should do resets when quiescent. e.g. After 2 hours, if you did no work for 60 seconds, reset it, after 4 hours make that 15 seconds, after 6 hours, 5 seconds, after 7 hours immediately on quiescence, and after 8 hours just reset immediately rather than wait for the bug. [Edited to fix numerous typographical errors]
      - MBCook 3y ago
        It sounds like it works on the vendor driver. So if there is a chip bug there has to be a way to work around it. We just don’t know what it is.
      - rcxdude 3y ago
        The second happens all the time. Drivers are absolutely chock full of workarounds for hardware bugs.
tamimio 3y ago
Although I don’t think this issue relates to the pi, but I agree, some people think pis will do anything and everything just because you managed to hack some components together, sure, it might works but it isn’t reliable, build a proper computer for that task and save yourself the trouble.
Levitating 3y ago
Yes, curse these low power cheap system on a chips! All embedded software should be run on x86! Routers on x86, phones on x86, smart thermostats on x86. Just buy them on eBay am I right.
- aleph_minus_one 3y ago
  > All embedded software should be run on x86! Routers on x86, phones on x86, smart thermostats on x86. In 2013, Intel made an attempt to make x86 suitable for embedded purposes with the Intel Quark microcontroller: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quark and branded developer boards for it under the name Intel Galileo: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Galileo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Galileo As far as I aware the markets rather preferred existing microcontroller solutions instead of Intel's offer.
  - fifteen1506 3y ago
    Maybe they'll try again with x86s.
  - topspin 3y ago
    MCUs are all about peripherals. The ISA barely matters. The peripherals are frequently ported forward unchanged or enhanced in forward compatible ways from older MCUs with different ISAs because they are specialized, proprietary, carefully refined circuits and developers can port their working C peripheral drivers with minimal change. You can't helicopter in to that market with your half baked, brand new peripheral suite and expect everyone to adopt it. Intel did go far in set top boxes and smart TVs with their atom/canmore (SoC, not MCU) platform in ~2008 and onward. I ported some media software to it. I think a lot of that has been given back to ARM and Android since, however.
- postepowanieadm 3y ago
  "cheap"
- toast0 3y ago
  Intel kind of abandoned embedded recently, but 80186 was x86 for embedded before it was cool. And they've tried to make it work from time to time. x86 routers are great. x86 phones aren't awful, and could have been amazing if Intel didn't cancel them right before Microsoft released Continuum. Not sure if I've seen a smart thermostat on x86, but I dunno sure, as long as its got a common wire do it can pull power, should be fine.
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
"Here's a nickel, kid." http://www.miketaylor.org.uk/tech/eta/doc/dilbert.gif http://www.miketaylor.org.uk/tech/eta/doc/dilbert.gif

Or another reason to go with a real computer on eBay vs a RPi and loads of other equipment.

by pierat 3y ago

Or another reason to go with a real computer on eBay vs a RPi and loads of other equipment.

Jabrov 3y ago

According to the article, this has nothing to do with Pi and is more about WPA3 itself

vlovich123 3y ago
Unclear if WPA3 or this specific Infineon chip. Most likely it’s a chip issue where some counter overflows or something and suddenly the crypto starts failing.
- MBCook 3y ago
  My read was it’s the chip/driver combo. And the Pi is not the only thing to use that chip, it’s just very popular. So even if one’s attitude is “get a real computer” like the first post in this thread you may still find yourself with this same chip.
  - tialaramex 3y ago
    I can easily buy either 1. The chip works perfectly but it's documented badly/ wrongly, e.g. doesn't spell out the whole strategy needed for a periodic key renewal or does so confusingly - driver is written to match the docs or at least the best understanding of these docs, and unfortunately this defect arises after 10 hours but devs with the actual docs have never tested for that long. 2. The chip has a bug, it's not possible to use it correctly per se. Every few hours, just reset it and start over, thus a "good" driver should do resets when quiescent. e.g. After 2 hours, if you did no work for 60 seconds, reset it, after 4 hours make that 15 seconds, after 6 hours, 5 seconds, after 7 hours immediately on quiescence, and after 8 hours just reset immediately rather than wait for the bug. [Edited to fix numerous typographical errors]
    - MBCook 3y ago
      It sounds like it works on the vendor driver. So if there is a chip bug there has to be a way to work around it. We just don’t know what it is.
    - rcxdude 3y ago
      The second happens all the time. Drivers are absolutely chock full of workarounds for hardware bugs.

tamimio 3y ago

Although I don’t think this issue relates to the pi, but I agree, some people think pis will do anything and everything just because you managed to hack some components together, sure, it might works but it isn’t reliable, build a proper computer for that task and save yourself the trouble.

Levitating 3y ago

Yes, curse these low power cheap system on a chips! All embedded software should be run on x86! Routers on x86, phones on x86, smart thermostats on x86. Just buy them on eBay am I right.

aleph_minus_one 3y ago
> All embedded software should be run on x86! Routers on x86, phones on x86, smart thermostats on x86. In 2013, Intel made an attempt to make x86 suitable for embedded purposes with the Intel Quark microcontroller: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quark and branded developer boards for it under the name Intel Galileo: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Galileo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Galileo As far as I aware the markets rather preferred existing microcontroller solutions instead of Intel's offer.
- fifteen1506 3y ago
  Maybe they'll try again with x86s.
- topspin 3y ago
  MCUs are all about peripherals. The ISA barely matters. The peripherals are frequently ported forward unchanged or enhanced in forward compatible ways from older MCUs with different ISAs because they are specialized, proprietary, carefully refined circuits and developers can port their working C peripheral drivers with minimal change. You can't helicopter in to that market with your half baked, brand new peripheral suite and expect everyone to adopt it. Intel did go far in set top boxes and smart TVs with their atom/canmore (SoC, not MCU) platform in ~2008 and onward. I ported some media software to it. I think a lot of that has been given back to ARM and Android since, however.
postepowanieadm 3y ago
"cheap"
toast0 3y ago
Intel kind of abandoned embedded recently, but 80186 was x86 for embedded before it was cool. And they've tried to make it work from time to time. x86 routers are great. x86 phones aren't awful, and could have been amazing if Intel didn't cancel them right before Microsoft released Continuum. Not sure if I've seen a smart thermostat on x86, but I dunno sure, as long as its got a common wire do it can pull power, should be fine.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

"Here's a nickel, kid." http://www.miketaylor.org.uk/tech/eta/doc/dilbert.gif http://www.miketaylor.org.uk/tech/eta/doc/dilbert.gif