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I loathe Apple. We have this absolutely incredibly powerful, world changing invention in all of our pockets now, and Apple is doing everything they possibly can

I loathe Apple. We have this absolutely incredibly powerful, world changing invention in all of our pockets now, and Apple is doing everything they possibly can to suck every single penny out of it, at huge economic burden, just to become wealthier. Apple has always been bad, but this is just a next level of evil. I will never buy an Apple product, and I will make sure no one close to me does either.

tibbydudeza 3y ago
"world changing invention in all of our pockets now" My Android phone does the same thing :).
pdntspa 3y ago
It's better than the alternatives (Google). Does Android still have mandatory locaton services enabled?
- Hamuko 3y ago
  Note that Apple will track what country you are located in so that you don't accidentally install an alternative application store outside the European Union.
gjsman-1000 3y ago
If you loathe Apple, you’ve never met Google…
- malermeister 3y ago
  At least Android is open source and doesn't restrict sideloading. Even if you don't like the Google version, you can always install something like GrapheneOS.
  - jwells89 3y ago
    Open source with big asterisk. AOSP grows more anemic by the day as more and more of the Android that ships on consumer devices becomes proprietary, even on Google devices. While custom ROMs exist you’re then at the mercy of cat and mouse hacks to evade security checks from bank apps and the like, something that many don’t have the time or energy for.
    - malermeister 3y ago
      Agreed. It's a very unfortunate development, but it's still better than in Apple land, where it's just fully proprietary.
- COGlory 3y ago
  This topic is about Apple, but I'm happy to talk about how much I loathe Google in another thread. But at least I can install custom ROMs, 3rd party stores, don't need notarization, don't need to pay Google for the privilege of using the device I own, etc.
  - qeternity 3y ago
    You may be surprised to learn that the overwhelming majority of people, and thus the overwhelming majority of Apple customers, have precisely zero interest in any of these things. Part of the value proposition Apple offers is that they will work to keep your device secure and free of malware. That inherently means restrictions around code execution. This is simply the tyranny of the minority.
    - michaelcampbell 3y ago
      > You may be surprised to learn that the overwhelming majority of people, and thus the overwhelming majority of Apple customers, have precisely zero interest in any of these things. Why would you think someone who knows about the (evidently) minutae of what Android advantages over Apple are would be surprised at that?
      - qeternity 3y ago
        I was connecting your original comment to your reply: > Apple is doing everything they possibly can to suck every single penny out of it, at huge economic burden The advantages you list, which are supposedly creating huge economic burden, are actually the very reasons that Apple is a huge economic success both for itself and its customers. Many people have decided they get more value by not having these things. And people like you who do want these things have great alternatives . This is the definition of functional market and is how economic value is created. EDIT: sorry, thought it was COGlory who replied. The rationale is the same.
        michaelcampbell 3y ago
- huytersd 3y ago
  Eh I love Google. A company that gives me email, YouTube, maps, search, docs, sheets, translation, collab, chrome, fiber, meet, drive, my calendar, photo repository, earth, android etc. for free is alright in my book.
nicepplonly 3y ago
Apple is simply playing by the rules of capitalism, which are as follows: extract as much value as possible from your customers, employees, etc, for the purpose of enriching capital (shareholders). Apple will follow the law to the letter, but they will do so in whatever way will be maximally best for their own interests. Way she goes. People keep falling for the just-world fallacy[1], and companies exploit this through the use of propaganda (ads, marketing, yadda yadda) and most people eat it up. No company (not Spotify, not Apple, not the woke-est, most DEI company out there) cares about anything other than profits at the end of the day under capitalism, because capital rules everything and politicians are not exempt from the rules of capital. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis
- COGlory 3y ago
  Yes, which is why I loathe them. They aren't just playing by the rules - they are destroying endless economic opportunity behind them with their rent seeking and desired monopolization. Those things are not compatible with capitalism. They have decoupled their incentives from their users incentives to extract more profit, and then they lie and use scare tactics to gaslight their users into thinking this what they want.
- malermeister 3y ago
  You're right. In reality it is not Apple I loathe, but the capitalist system of which it is an outgrowth.
  - nicepplonly 3y ago
    I don't think capitalism is inherently bad, but the system we have is bad. Adam Smith wrote a lot about this, in particular he loathed landlords and entities that suck value out of the system while offering little in return. Apple is a weird case, because arguably they do create a lot of value, but currently we have a problem where that value isn't returned to the broader society, instead it goes into the hands of a small minority of people and groups. Asymmetries need to be balanced, such as the balance between labour and capital. Unions help labour, but thanks to a decades-long propaganda campaign against unions, we no longer have that push back against capital. Personally I think the problem will only get worse, so I'd suggest buying the S&P 500 with as much cheap leverage as you can afford.
huytersd 3y ago
On the flip side I love Apple. I want a privacy focused company with a stellar reputation to monitor security and fight the data mining monsters on my behalf. I want a thoughtless instrument that I can use with abandon for important day to day activities. Why shouldn’t they have overflowing coffers if they can manage to pull that off for me? If you don’t reward invention you get China, where inspite of everything, can’t seem to come up with new ideas of significant impact.
- COGlory 3y ago
  Even if they allowed sideloading apps or open bootloaders, you could still have that.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  "fight the data mining monsters" Exception for Apple themselves, of course.
  - thebruce87m 3y ago
    Of course. You act like we’re not aware. We are and have made peace with it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
SJetKaran 3y ago
I just bought my first ever Apple device - a second hand iphone. After seeing the Apple's behavior in the last couple of weeks, don't think I'm going to buy another Apple device.
tomjen3 3y ago
I switched to Apple because putting so much personal information on a device owned by an advertising agency is not a good choice.

tibbydudeza 3y ago

"world changing invention in all of our pockets now" My Android phone does the same thing :).

pdntspa 3y ago

It's better than the alternatives (Google). Does Android still have mandatory locaton services enabled?

Hamuko 3y ago
Note that Apple will track what country you are located in so that you don't accidentally install an alternative application store outside the European Union.

gjsman-1000 3y ago

If you loathe Apple, you’ve never met Google…

malermeister 3y ago
At least Android is open source and doesn't restrict sideloading. Even if you don't like the Google version, you can always install something like GrapheneOS.
- jwells89 3y ago
  Open source with big asterisk. AOSP grows more anemic by the day as more and more of the Android that ships on consumer devices becomes proprietary, even on Google devices. While custom ROMs exist you’re then at the mercy of cat and mouse hacks to evade security checks from bank apps and the like, something that many don’t have the time or energy for.
  - malermeister 3y ago
    Agreed. It's a very unfortunate development, but it's still better than in Apple land, where it's just fully proprietary.
COGlory 3y ago
This topic is about Apple, but I'm happy to talk about how much I loathe Google in another thread. But at least I can install custom ROMs, 3rd party stores, don't need notarization, don't need to pay Google for the privilege of using the device I own, etc.
- qeternity 3y ago
  You may be surprised to learn that the overwhelming majority of people, and thus the overwhelming majority of Apple customers, have precisely zero interest in any of these things. Part of the value proposition Apple offers is that they will work to keep your device secure and free of malware. That inherently means restrictions around code execution. This is simply the tyranny of the minority.
  - michaelcampbell 3y ago
    > You may be surprised to learn that the overwhelming majority of people, and thus the overwhelming majority of Apple customers, have precisely zero interest in any of these things. Why would you think someone who knows about the (evidently) minutae of what Android advantages over Apple are would be surprised at that?
    - qeternity 3y ago
      I was connecting your original comment to your reply: > Apple is doing everything they possibly can to suck every single penny out of it, at huge economic burden The advantages you list, which are supposedly creating huge economic burden, are actually the very reasons that Apple is a huge economic success both for itself and its customers. Many people have decided they get more value by not having these things. And people like you who do want these things have great alternatives . This is the definition of functional market and is how economic value is created. EDIT: sorry, thought it was COGlory who replied. The rationale is the same.
      - michaelcampbell 3y ago
huytersd 3y ago
Eh I love Google. A company that gives me email, YouTube, maps, search, docs, sheets, translation, collab, chrome, fiber, meet, drive, my calendar, photo repository, earth, android etc. for free is alright in my book.

nicepplonly 3y ago

Apple is simply playing by the rules of capitalism, which are as follows: extract as much value as possible from your customers, employees, etc, for the purpose of enriching capital (shareholders). Apple will follow the law to the letter, but they will do so in whatever way will be maximally best for their own interests. Way she goes. People keep falling for the just-world fallacy[1], and companies exploit this through the use of propaganda (ads, marketing, yadda yadda) and most people eat it up. No company (not Spotify, not Apple, not the woke-est, most DEI company out there) cares about anything other than profits at the end of the day under capitalism, because capital rules everything and politicians are not exempt from the rules of capital. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

COGlory 3y ago
Yes, which is why I loathe them. They aren't just playing by the rules - they are destroying endless economic opportunity behind them with their rent seeking and desired monopolization. Those things are not compatible with capitalism. They have decoupled their incentives from their users incentives to extract more profit, and then they lie and use scare tactics to gaslight their users into thinking this what they want.
malermeister 3y ago
You're right. In reality it is not Apple I loathe, but the capitalist system of which it is an outgrowth.
- nicepplonly 3y ago
  I don't think capitalism is inherently bad, but the system we have is bad. Adam Smith wrote a lot about this, in particular he loathed landlords and entities that suck value out of the system while offering little in return. Apple is a weird case, because arguably they do create a lot of value, but currently we have a problem where that value isn't returned to the broader society, instead it goes into the hands of a small minority of people and groups. Asymmetries need to be balanced, such as the balance between labour and capital. Unions help labour, but thanks to a decades-long propaganda campaign against unions, we no longer have that push back against capital. Personally I think the problem will only get worse, so I'd suggest buying the S&P 500 with as much cheap leverage as you can afford.

huytersd 3y ago

On the flip side I love Apple. I want a privacy focused company with a stellar reputation to monitor security and fight the data mining monsters on my behalf. I want a thoughtless instrument that I can use with abandon for important day to day activities. Why shouldn’t they have overflowing coffers if they can manage to pull that off for me? If you don’t reward invention you get China, where inspite of everything, can’t seem to come up with new ideas of significant impact.

COGlory 3y ago
Even if they allowed sideloading apps or open bootloaders, you could still have that.
SoftTalker 3y ago
"fight the data mining monsters" Exception for Apple themselves, of course.
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  Of course. You act like we’re not aware. We are and have made peace with it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

SJetKaran 3y ago

I just bought my first ever Apple device - a second hand iphone. After seeing the Apple's behavior in the last couple of weeks, don't think I'm going to buy another Apple device.

tomjen3 3y ago

I switched to Apple because putting so much personal information on a device owned by an advertising agency is not a good choice.