5 ms·

The actual implementation matters, when a bridge fails the issue isn’t bridges it’s the design of that specific bridge. As the model works fine in other locati

by Retric 3y ago

The actual implementation matters, when a bridge fails the issue isn’t bridges it’s the design of that specific bridge. As the model works fine in other locations, fixing California’s issues with mismanagement/poor incentives should be the priority not simply giving up.

hedora 3y ago
For example, for PG&E, the root cause of them blowing up that neighborhood was that the money that was supposed to go to upgrading the gas lines was embezzled and they faked the repair logs for the repairs. Now, we have no idea which lines were repaired and not. Since this started decades ago, they have to dig up and inspect a huge number of lines. Anyway, "mismanagement/poor incentives" is leaving out a lot of details involving graft and corruption, and malicious local governments. For an example of corrupt/malicious local regulators: the Golden Gate Bridge maintenance road they recently built in Marin cost more than the bridge (inflation adjusted) and took longer to plan + build as well.
- bushbaba 3y ago
  What i dont get is that you have a private company which mis managed its assets. Caused harm to the public. And the public bails them out with no equity or upside. Total shame as the CPUC could have demanded the state or rate payers get equity/bonds in the company for the bail out.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    The USA basically has one politically viable solution to every problem it faces: “handing money to corporations.” That’s all Congress and States are willing to do. Electric utility graft and corruption? Hand them money. Banking failure? Hand them money. Airplanes falling apart? Hand them money. Health Care incentives misaligned? Hand them money. Poverty? Hand money to corporations that will embezzle most of it. People out of work during COVID? Hand their employers money. Top corporations getting too big and powerful? Believe it or not, hand them money. That’s the only tool in the toolbox. It’s helpful to think of Congress as a gigantic money funnel where our tax dollars go in and they take turns aiming it at their favorite corporations.
    - the_optimist 3y ago
      The government itself is akin to a perfect corporation: not liable, no accountability, monopoly on taking, monopoly on force. What’s this alternative that corporations that you’re alluding to?
      - the_optimist 3y ago
        Somehow voting reveals this government-is-godlike thinking that a magic superpower is going to bestow greatness upon humanity and achieve all of its hopes and dreams. When we look for a single example of this in all of history, the result is a null set, and in most cases the saviors are monstrous. Nonetheless, somehow this hope persists. See it every time in the votes here.
- paholg 3y ago
  Jesus, in my mind the first thing you do there is arrest a bunch of people and nationalize (or statenize I guess, or whatever the word would be) the company.
  - eropple 3y ago
    Statenize, v.: to banish to Staten Island. Can't say it couldn't help.
zbrozek 3y ago
What seems to actually work is increasing market competitiveness. The open access rules that gave us MVNOs appear to have worked great. Texas electric customers have lots of choice and lower costs under similar rules. These broadband subsidies might be too good, or at least too well captured by too few players. They may be a good idea generally, but it looks like it's time to revisit the details.
- Retric 3y ago
  MVNOs share infrastructure. Nowhere has competitiveness in terms of the actual grid only on the energy production and billing sides. The Texas grid is a massive failure in terms of both cost and reliability. Somewhere between 246 and 702 people were killed in 2021 when operators had already seen similar issues in 2011. Similarly people received bills that more than wiped out any long term savings they had received from hourly rate charging.
- dangus 3y ago
  Is Texas electric a good example? It seems like a lot of people in Texas were swindled into buying variable rate plans that caused rate spikes resulting in $5,000 electric bills. https://www.businessinsider.com/why-texas-residents-hit-with-soaring-electric-bills-winter-storms-2021-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-texas-residents-hit-with... ERCOT is not a model that anyone should strive to emulate. https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/grid-locked/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/grid-locked/
  - 9659 3y ago
    Not a swindle. One company offered a plan where all of the electricity was purchased on the spot market. All of it. Spot market purchases of electricity are very cheap. Except when they aren't. Most months my electricity bill was 1/2 of current.
    - dangus 3y ago
      It’s a swindle because of the marketing of the plans and the exorbitantly high maximum rate caps. Every person who has knocked on my door to sell variable rate plans emphasizes the upside of the deal: why pay more than the current rate? You’re wasting your money on paying for the fixed rate that’s mostly higher than the going rate. Like you said, most of the time you save a good amount of money. The salespeople and marketing pamphlets emphasize that. Do you really believe that the executives at these utilities are ignorant to the fact that most of their customers don’t fully understand the implications? I think they sell the plans specifically because customers don’t understand them. Worse for Texas, their system’s market pricing setup incentivizes power utilities to minimize their overhead capacity. The closer their supply is to demand, the higher the price they can get. But it leaves very little wiggle room for emergency situations (99% Invisible has a good episode about this). Therefore, their grid is more prone to spikes in variable rate pricing than other states. Like financial instruments such as options trading, financial games like this make sense for the wealthy who have a cushion of risk tolerance. I can make more money faster with options trading compared to an index fund! But for the median and below wage earner, sudden bill surprises shouldn’t be something that the government enables for basic necessities like utilities.

by Retric 3y ago

hedora 3y ago

For example, for PG&E, the root cause of them blowing up that neighborhood was that the money that was supposed to go to upgrading the gas lines was embezzled and they faked the repair logs for the repairs. Now, we have no idea which lines were repaired and not. Since this started decades ago, they have to dig up and inspect a huge number of lines. Anyway, "mismanagement/poor incentives" is leaving out a lot of details involving graft and corruption, and malicious local governments. For an example of corrupt/malicious local regulators: the Golden Gate Bridge maintenance road they recently built in Marin cost more than the bridge (inflation adjusted) and took longer to plan + build as well.

bushbaba 3y ago
What i dont get is that you have a private company which mis managed its assets. Caused harm to the public. And the public bails them out with no equity or upside. Total shame as the CPUC could have demanded the state or rate payers get equity/bonds in the company for the bail out.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  The USA basically has one politically viable solution to every problem it faces: “handing money to corporations.” That’s all Congress and States are willing to do. Electric utility graft and corruption? Hand them money. Banking failure? Hand them money. Airplanes falling apart? Hand them money. Health Care incentives misaligned? Hand them money. Poverty? Hand money to corporations that will embezzle most of it. People out of work during COVID? Hand their employers money. Top corporations getting too big and powerful? Believe it or not, hand them money. That’s the only tool in the toolbox. It’s helpful to think of Congress as a gigantic money funnel where our tax dollars go in and they take turns aiming it at their favorite corporations.
  - the_optimist 3y ago
    The government itself is akin to a perfect corporation: not liable, no accountability, monopoly on taking, monopoly on force. What’s this alternative that corporations that you’re alluding to?
    - the_optimist 3y ago
      Somehow voting reveals this government-is-godlike thinking that a magic superpower is going to bestow greatness upon humanity and achieve all of its hopes and dreams. When we look for a single example of this in all of history, the result is a null set, and in most cases the saviors are monstrous. Nonetheless, somehow this hope persists. See it every time in the votes here.
paholg 3y ago
Jesus, in my mind the first thing you do there is arrest a bunch of people and nationalize (or statenize I guess, or whatever the word would be) the company.
- eropple 3y ago
  Statenize, v.: to banish to Staten Island. Can't say it couldn't help.

zbrozek 3y ago

What seems to actually work is increasing market competitiveness. The open access rules that gave us MVNOs appear to have worked great. Texas electric customers have lots of choice and lower costs under similar rules. These broadband subsidies might be too good, or at least too well captured by too few players. They may be a good idea generally, but it looks like it's time to revisit the details.

Retric 3y ago
MVNOs share infrastructure. Nowhere has competitiveness in terms of the actual grid only on the energy production and billing sides. The Texas grid is a massive failure in terms of both cost and reliability. Somewhere between 246 and 702 people were killed in 2021 when operators had already seen similar issues in 2011. Similarly people received bills that more than wiped out any long term savings they had received from hourly rate charging.
dangus 3y ago
Is Texas electric a good example? It seems like a lot of people in Texas were swindled into buying variable rate plans that caused rate spikes resulting in $5,000 electric bills. https://www.businessinsider.com/why-texas-residents-hit-with-soaring-electric-bills-winter-storms-2021-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-texas-residents-hit-with... ERCOT is not a model that anyone should strive to emulate. https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/grid-locked/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/grid-locked/
- 9659 3y ago
  Not a swindle. One company offered a plan where all of the electricity was purchased on the spot market. All of it. Spot market purchases of electricity are very cheap. Except when they aren't. Most months my electricity bill was 1/2 of current.
  - dangus 3y ago
    It’s a swindle because of the marketing of the plans and the exorbitantly high maximum rate caps. Every person who has knocked on my door to sell variable rate plans emphasizes the upside of the deal: why pay more than the current rate? You’re wasting your money on paying for the fixed rate that’s mostly higher than the going rate. Like you said, most of the time you save a good amount of money. The salespeople and marketing pamphlets emphasize that. Do you really believe that the executives at these utilities are ignorant to the fact that most of their customers don’t fully understand the implications? I think they sell the plans specifically because customers don’t understand them. Worse for Texas, their system’s market pricing setup incentivizes power utilities to minimize their overhead capacity. The closer their supply is to demand, the higher the price they can get. But it leaves very little wiggle room for emergency situations (99% Invisible has a good episode about this). Therefore, their grid is more prone to spikes in variable rate pricing than other states. Like financial instruments such as options trading, financial games like this make sense for the wealthy who have a cushion of risk tolerance. I can make more money faster with options trading compared to an index fund! But for the median and below wage earner, sudden bill surprises shouldn’t be something that the government enables for basic necessities like utilities.