9 ms·

The Needless Bullshit of Having a 'Mission'

65 points by shubhamjain 3y ago

jruohonen 3y ago
"However, I would appreciate if startups just cut the crap about socially concerned goals." While I like to maintain that there are start-ups with genuine society-improving aspirations (in addition to the goals of surviving and making profit), perhaps we could use a term "mission washing" to accompany Morozov's concept of "solutionism".
i_like_apis 3y ago
“Needless bullshit” is a bad take. What if I have a mission and I like it and it’s totally authentic? My customers like it too. Are you calling me full of it for achieving that difficult goal? I think you’re right about a lot of inauthentic mission statements, but I think crass swearing is the real “needless bullshit”.
- shubhamjain 3y ago
  I should have worded the title better. I have covered what you've said later in the article: > I must clarify that my complaint isn’t against having mission statements because some of them do make sense and describe the company’s culture and the products they ship. >> Honest Tea: To create and promote great-tasting, healthy, organic beverages. >> Patagonia: Build the best product, Cause no unnecessary harm, Use business to protect nature, Not bound by convention. >> IKEA: To offer a wide range of well-designed, functional home furnishing products at prices so low that as many people as possible will be able to afford them
  - johntopia 3y ago
    Well, you certainly grabbed my attention. Gj with the aggro lol
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    >> Use business to protect nature, Wouldn't most effective way to do this be preventing people from ever entering nature. In style of Chernobyl exclusion zone. And best way is to make so horrible gear that it forces people to stay home?
- ssss11 3y ago
  It’s just drama. Some people have missions - great. Some don’t need them - great.
- isoprophlex 3y ago
  The malignant proliferation of inauthenticity and corpo doublespeak deserves to be called out in any way possible. And if crass swearing or histrionic ranting is your jam, that's okay in my book. Rude honesty over bland inauthentic fakers any time.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  I think it is implied that genuine missions are excepted. Your mission will be exactly like the Ikea one and does what it says on the tin.
- satisfice 3y ago
  Maybe you didn’t read the end.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  After you've read "On Bullshit" by Harry Frankfurt, you'll stop hearing that as just potty-mouth. Frankfurt's philosophy and human psychology in that essay was a much needed tonic, to name a really quite specific /indifference to truth and consequences/. It's frustrating that he chose to overload "bullshit" as it makes it hard to talk in a sophisticated and nuanced way with sensitive people. We surely don't need another neologism for what everybody already knows. Actually when I say " /total indifference to truth/ " it hits a lot harder. Only one rather stuffy junior once pulled me up on "bullshit" and claimed offence. But when I say total indifference to truth, I've had far more senior figures say "isn't that a bit strong?" Well chosen words have power. But it's still frustrating when you want to convey they precise nuance of Frankfurt's observations without saying BS. I have the same discomfort with Doctorow's "enshitification". Once the novelty of throwing it into a conversation wears off, it becomes a struggle to find the perfect word for the precise process of cynical organisational exploitation that it describes. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit
  - FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
    Doctorow's "enshittification" is close to what management-consultants learn as "brand harvesting" -- the classic example being Schlitz beer, a once-beloved brand (I am told), where MBAs substituted cheap ingredients in order to trade on the name until the name was destroyed. The brand is no longer used. Possibly there is a difference though, in that "enshittification" implies less intentionality or understanding of the second-order consequences (brand destruction), whereas "brand harvesting" leans into it in the most cynical way possible, implying that the value of a brand is something that one could rationally choose to liquidate. It seems that it's basically the same thing as the debasement of a currency (like a brand, also a symbolic thing), or the Cantillon Effect, which (like brand harvesting) exploits the fact that information takes time to propagate and people take time to learn and react. There's a window where your adulterated beer still has the respected label, where your newly-printed dollars are not yet in general circulation, or where ad revenue is up and your customers haven't yet bothered to cancel their Netflix subscriptions.
Freedom5093 3y ago
> The whole concept is pretty stupid, rooted in a silly assumption; that a grand, noble mission is essential to motivate employees. I am motivated by an important mission, in fact, but I am more motivated by having ongoing impact on that mission (making a difference). I work in defence, so you'd think there's a lot of opportunity to keep people safe, help leaders make better decisions, etc. So far from my perspective, these companies are not very motivated or successful at solving the missions they boldly claim. As a result, I am motivated to leave these places, that lie or are incompetent at solving these missions. For example, a defence company says they want to "serve our democracies", but they hardly have any users. Another defence company has been building product for 4 years, yet has 0 users over that time. Then there are other, defence companies with unicorn valuation with also very cool marketing, but very little impact in ongoing crisis. All the mentioned companies have very good publicity, it's not until you work for them you realise they have 0 impact. There is no reason to change their ways, because they can continue to sign more contracts with gov (tens of millions, hundreds of millions). All you see publicly is cool tens/hundreds of million investment or contracts, cool movie like drone shots, "AI", cool drones, explosions, jets and good music. You don't get to see the 0 impact. Or worryingly, negative impact when these things don't work. I've been working in defence-tech startups for more than 2 years.
- andrepd 3y ago
  Pardon me if I misunderstand, but this seems to hed exactly what TFA is talking about: the need to believe you're doing a grand mission to make the world a better place when in fact you're just getting rich off selling death drones to the highest bidder...
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  Can you really have a noble mission as a defence company or are you effectively a soldier of sorts, paid to execute the aims of the governments you sell to. You are as moral or possible immoral, as those bosses and same for effectiveness. If your customer does something ineffective with your plane or whatever then it ain’t your mission. Your mission is really to provide great equipment to soldiers. Not to protect America. See the sister ship building comment. It is more like that than protecting democracy.
Animats 3y ago
"A computer on every desk, running Microsoft software" - early Microsoft mission statement. Mission accomplished. A good one from the 19th century: "We will build good ships. At a profit if we can, at a loss if we must. But always good ships." - Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Company. That's on a big plaque at the front gate. It was removed for some years when Tenneco, an auto parts conglomerate, owned the place. It's back now.
- gregoriol 3y ago
  Those are really great missions! Not like the bullshit startup ones in the blog post. Missions are what makes employees understand what they are here for. If it is bullshit, employees are gonna be bullshitting. If it is about something that they can feel, it will make their journey in the company better.
- fransje26 3y ago
  And, of course: I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth.
- Animats 3y ago
  Newport News Shipbuilding still has the plaque on display, but the location is less prominent.[1][2] It's on what looks like a gravestone in a little grass circle in a parking lot, instead of at the main gate. The company itself does not mention it. A bad sign. [1] https://pic2.zhimg.com/v2-e98cc37cfad022461087b1f49649d0a5_r.jpg https://pic2.zhimg.com/v2-e98cc37cfad022461087b1f49649d0a5_r... [2] https://earth.google.com/web/@36.98742381,-76.43708574,3.5191683a,123.80918474d,15y,250.48055604h,0t,0r https://earth.google.com/web/@36.98742381,-76.43708574,3.519...
onion2k 3y ago
When I got to a position where I started leading teams something I quickly realized is that I can't generalize about people. Everyone is different. We're all motivated by different things, and you have to account for that as a manager. Some people are motivated by lofty goals and values statements that companies write. Linking their work to a value statement the company has written definitely works. Other people just laugh if you try it. The lesson is that universal statements like this are wrong. The mission just doesn't motivate everyone. That said, I'm fairly sure the Asana one is trolling.
- switch007 3y ago
  Or are those people just playing you? Some people are really good at playing along. I do it pretty convincingly. You make way more friends than being the grumpy git who moans about annoying HR stuff all the time. I pretend to like my boss’ jokes, some of his interests etc. Makes for a way better relationship. I’m not the only one who does it. I’d say the majority does!
  - yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
    > I pretend to like my boss’ jokes, some of his interests etc. Makes for a way better relationship. I’m not the only one who does it. I’d say the majority does! Speaking as a boss, this is deeply depressing.
    - switch007 3y ago
      Not unexpected though surely. Why should employees not engage in marketing, just like your company does? Sucking up to your boss is a tale as old as time lol
      - yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
        No, not unexpected, but depressing nonetheless.
    - orwin 3y ago
or_am_i 3y ago
Do you think there might be more functions to a mission other than to motivate employees with some grand narrative? Perhaps it could serve as a basis for alignment, potentially helping to write strategies, set goals and sometimes even take day-to-day decisions on all levels? I have certainly seen mission statements that are useful in this sense, not just on a company level, but on a level of platforms and individual teams. Personally, I find it much easier to work towards explicitly stated common goals.
YouWhy 3y ago
My reading of the text is as a foreigner's critique of the American trope of asserting an ideal purpose to everything. An example from my own experience: an org leader proclaiming the need for "laser sharp focus". Amigo, you're running an organizational metrics p-value hacking campaign, which is by definition not a "focused" play. Could have said something useful like "let's be effective about our experimentation", but no, you must go through the motions of blabbering as if you're an action movie hero.
vinay_ys 3y ago
A clear mission statement can help to guide decision-making and keep the company focused on its goals. It can provide a framework for evaluating new initiatives and ensuring that they are aligned with the company's overall vision. Also a compelling mission statement can attract top talent who are aligned with the company's values and goals. This can be a significant advantage for startups competing for a limited pool of skilled workers. This was clearly true for Google with its mission. There are so many other successful examples. Looks like author is burned by bad startups with inauthentic mission statements.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  > This was clearly true for Google with its mission. Sorry if I missed your sarcasm, but wasn't Google's mission "Don't be evil"? [0] They so totally failed at that the motto became an embarrassment, so they fired two leaders of ethics, Margaret Mitchell and Timnit Gebru, for being too ethical, and then re-branded as Alphabet with a new mission of "Do the right thing" (ie. make lots of money). I mean, just this random tidbit: " 2021, 3 former Google employees filed a lawsuit alleging that Google's motto "Don't be evil" amounts to a contractual obligation that the tech giant violated, that Google broke their own moral code by firing them as retaliation for their efforts against 'evil'... " [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil
julienreszka 3y ago
terrible take. Just say some of those missions don't speak to you a be done with it. Why immediately say they are bullshit. It reminds me of this terrible book theorising that people have bullshit jobs, among others: - personal assistants, - door greeters, - executive assistants But in reality just the other day here on hacker news someone was essentially asking for a personal assistant. [1] 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39137625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39137625
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  > At Asana, our mission is to help humanity thrive by enabling the world’s teams to work together effortlessly. Come on! At some point let’s be normal people and say “yeah I wasn’t born yesterday”. The emperor is naked here!
  - lo_zamoyski 3y ago
    https://youtu.be/FGiocp7_jE8 https://youtu.be/FGiocp7_jE8
- ThinkBeat 3y ago
  How do you define "door greeter" as? Does that include doormen/porters or just the people at WalMart for instance who will tell you "Hello" as you enter the store? So it is a pointless job since the vast majority of hotels, residential buildings and office buildings have eliminated that role, and they all remain in business. Not filling the role has had minor or no negative impact. I have never picked hotels or office space based on the criteria of having doorman. Nor if they had bellhops. I do think it is nice when there is a doorman and somewhat nice when there is a porter. The endless tipping I dont like. When it comes to an assistant that number of people employed in that role has also severely declined over the years, and most business continue to function without secretaries. (and save money). There are of course many types of personal assistants, and some more common than others. I would love to have one. Seriously. I cant afford one, and if I had enough money left over to hire one I doubt I would. So many tasks that a PA could handle for me are now easy to do via the net myself, plus if it comes to something specific, I need handled it is easy to "rent one" that will handle it.
quickthrower2 3y ago
I love that someone said this. And so articulately. It has bothered me / mild lol at “missions” of these corporates. I also think you don’t need to be the Valve one either. Not everyone is going to be number 1. Be an OpenAI or a Valve. Plenty of money to be made as an Ikea or even the even more budget than Ikea furniture company.
kingkongjaffa 3y ago
reading the comments here, it strikes me that somethings written down look like 'missions' i.e. a statement of the reason the company exists, and others describe a 'vision' i.e. a description of a future state. I wonder if one or the other is more important in your opinions, are both required at all? To be honest as product manager a tool I have to promote my product before I have engineers build the thing, is a strong vivid vision statement. "in the future our customers will be able to do x [for the first time/faster/cheaper/easier/better]"
aEJ04Izw5HYm 3y ago
Business and Management practices rarely evolve to optimise anything other than the rate of output. Vision/Mission/Values can potentially improve the sanity of those involved and at least it stands as a shared ambition and social contract to possibly give employees and public a valid route for criticism (other than share price). I'll celebrate and encourage practical optimisations for people over money alone.
lmeyerov 3y ago
Setting aside the nonsense missions, I find it surprisingly useful from a self-determination perspective when working with a strongly motivated team: - On one hand we say '100Xing investigations'. This is customer centric, focusing on the process they go through. - Our team & history are deep tech - GPUs, program synthesis & language technology, graph AI, and large-scale visualization. This is not customer centric, but does give us differentiating ingredients for achieving that. Why this matters is we try to have loose management with declarative assignments. It's one thing for folks to be senior on their craft and know the multiple paths to achieve something... and another for them to know how to make tricky trade-offs that align with the company. The technology investments show where spending a bit of extra time helps under-the-hood, and the customer problem focus is even better for that. Likewise, when someone veers off, it's a lot easier for a peer to gut check. Our early days were too tech-centric in mission, and that led some things astray. There are other reasons too, such as helping team cultural assignment. Overall, having something good here does simplify a lot. If startups are a team of people navigating their way to a scalable business, getting the mission right is a natural aspect of figuring out what value you are bringing to what customers.
zx8080 3y ago
> I don’t know why startups have the urge to write statements like this, to connect themselves to a noble goal. They sell it to inveators for to get some free money. That's it, no magic. In general, people do seemingly strange things mainly for two cases: power and money (it just gives power). So only one, but that's usually more complex to understand.
- probn0 3y ago
  [dead]
ngrilly 3y ago
Companies need a mission statement telling why the company needs to exist. Unfortunately, as highlighted by the author, too often these mission statements are bullshit, which is making them pretty useless, even counterproductive.
jackcosgrove 3y ago
> What actually drives employees is the inner workings of a company: the degree of autonomy employees have, the quality of products being shipped, and having impressive people as seniors and leaders, who have good product vision. I think the author was actually being generous by describing employees this way, because there's no mention of pay. Scratch the surface of the mission at a lot of companies, especially startups, and it becomes clear it's a recruiting tactic and no-cost psychological reward. Which is fine if the employer and employee are aligned and the tradeoff understood. But the criticisms of low pay in the "helping professions" could be applied here. Personally I think most company missions are insincere and I would not accept lower pay to work for a mission-driven company.
andrewstuart 3y ago
I'd prefer something like: "At company Foo our mission is to create software that people use, love and pay for, and along the way to find fulfillment through challenging work that makes us learn, allows us all to be paid well, lead a happy life and make scads of moolah for our investors."
- Ekaros 3y ago
  Maybe apart from "love". Isn't that something that should be taken. That is any company should make product that sells and is used. And in general work should be fulfilling and paid. While generating profit for owners. Like absolute barest minimum for any company.
rambambram 3y ago
You can say of Musk what you want, but "Going to Mars" is a big and clear mission statement that can (and does?) inspire the whole of humanity. A former boss of mine always talked about the 'tempting perspective', I like that take.
- satisfice 3y ago
  Going to Mars is a dumb idea. So, only inspiring to some. (If you think it’s truly and inspiring then think about it for 10 minutes, please. What exactly would happen to people who go to Mars? And what happens after that?) Prevent the destruction of humanity on Earth is more to the point for me.
  - rambambram 3y ago
    I'm not saying I agree. edit: nicer words
satisfice 3y ago
Nicely written. It’s not against missions; it’s against lies.
- stavros 3y ago
  He's not going to like the CIA's mission then.
  - satisfice 3y ago
    I love comebacks like that. They are not appreciated as much as they should be. My day is brighter now.
DrNosferatu 3y ago
A Berlin startup that dealt in being an Uber for house cleaners, even forced the poor souls to write what was their “mission in cleaning” - true story.
avereveard 3y ago
typical "I don't understand it so it's bullshit" rant. pinning it on "motivation" is very naive and highlight lack of self reflection or understanding on the topic. the mission has a very real objective, which is align everyone own goals to the overal goals. it's a protection against micromanagement. it enables manager in the org to self check if their goals are aligned to where the company wants to be instead of bubbling up to leadership every single decision in turn, if the management goals are all aligned, cross development collaboration is much more likely, because both team share similar goals and kpi and will have concrete benefit in collaborating reaching these in turn each developer has a set target, and doesn't need to bubble up to management every decision. it is enabled to decide autonomously which course of action aligns the daily task with the yearly goal, benefitting indirectly from a clear mission in term of needing less micromanagement. now that's the optimum and not always the case, typical failure scenario include bad mission, unaligned goals or unrelated kpi, there are more than a few companies where the whole chain breaks here or there, but that doesn't mean the underlying principle is sound: substituting direct guidance with guidelines removes micromanagement and enable roles autonomy. it's quite common for developer "not seeing it" because they don't really engage in thinking why and what would be the alternative, or because they have been in suboptimal working places, but before calling any universal truth maybe the writer should have done some cursory research on the topic at the very least and merged his anectdotes with the underlying theory to contrast where things went wrong. beside the bit around valve is also a bit miopyc. even if they don't call it mission, they have a clear vision and they say as much: "Our platform connects players with the world's greatest entertainment. " and the product goals derive from that. and in the end, the true colors of the poster finally shows: > cut the crap about socially concerned goals
nemothekid 3y ago
This is something I would have agreed on when I was younger, but after being in the drivers seat I can really see that I was missing the forest for the trees. It's very easy to say "all these billion dollar companies are wrong" when you haven't tried herding cats yourself.
tetrisgm 3y ago
"Our mission is to make cool stuff, learn some shit, and make money in the process" would apply everywhere. But business has the veneer of being super serious and you can't say things like that. It's an oddity of how society just has some taboos and acceptable behavior from companies. It's also why the inverse (leadership at a company being straightforward) is seen as rare.
1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago
Mission statements are important for real companies, not so-called "tech" companies. He cites Patagonia, Honest Tea and IKEA as examples of real companies. None of them engage in data collection, surveillance and advertising services via positioning themselves as intermediaries (middlemen) and then call this a "business model". None of them are just giant websites that derive their profit from other peoples' work, so-called "user-generated content". As one might expect, the mission statements of real companies are not bullshit.

65 points by shubhamjain 3y ago

"However, I would appreciate if startups just cut the crap about socially concerned goals." While I like to maintain that there are start-ups with genuine society-improving aspirations (in addition to the goals of surviving and making profit), perhaps we could use a term "mission washing" to accompany Morozov's concept of "solutionism".

i_like_apis 3y ago

“Needless bullshit” is a bad take. What if I have a mission and I like it and it’s totally authentic? My customers like it too. Are you calling me full of it for achieving that difficult goal? I think you’re right about a lot of inauthentic mission statements, but I think crass swearing is the real “needless bullshit”.

shubhamjain 3y ago
I should have worded the title better. I have covered what you've said later in the article: > I must clarify that my complaint isn’t against having mission statements because some of them do make sense and describe the company’s culture and the products they ship. >> Honest Tea: To create and promote great-tasting, healthy, organic beverages. >> Patagonia: Build the best product, Cause no unnecessary harm, Use business to protect nature, Not bound by convention. >> IKEA: To offer a wide range of well-designed, functional home furnishing products at prices so low that as many people as possible will be able to afford them
- johntopia 3y ago
  Well, you certainly grabbed my attention. Gj with the aggro lol
- Ekaros 3y ago
  >> Use business to protect nature, Wouldn't most effective way to do this be preventing people from ever entering nature. In style of Chernobyl exclusion zone. And best way is to make so horrible gear that it forces people to stay home?
ssss11 3y ago
It’s just drama. Some people have missions - great. Some don’t need them - great.
isoprophlex 3y ago
The malignant proliferation of inauthenticity and corpo doublespeak deserves to be called out in any way possible. And if crass swearing or histrionic ranting is your jam, that's okay in my book. Rude honesty over bland inauthentic fakers any time.
quickthrower2 3y ago
I think it is implied that genuine missions are excepted. Your mission will be exactly like the Ikea one and does what it says on the tin.
satisfice 3y ago
Maybe you didn’t read the end.
nonrandomstring 3y ago
After you've read "On Bullshit" by Harry Frankfurt, you'll stop hearing that as just potty-mouth. Frankfurt's philosophy and human psychology in that essay was a much needed tonic, to name a really quite specific /indifference to truth and consequences/. It's frustrating that he chose to overload "bullshit" as it makes it hard to talk in a sophisticated and nuanced way with sensitive people. We surely don't need another neologism for what everybody already knows. Actually when I say " /total indifference to truth/ " it hits a lot harder. Only one rather stuffy junior once pulled me up on "bullshit" and claimed offence. But when I say total indifference to truth, I've had far more senior figures say "isn't that a bit strong?" Well chosen words have power. But it's still frustrating when you want to convey they precise nuance of Frankfurt's observations without saying BS. I have the same discomfort with Doctorow's "enshitification". Once the novelty of throwing it into a conversation wears off, it becomes a struggle to find the perfect word for the precise process of cynical organisational exploitation that it describes. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit
- FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
  Doctorow's "enshittification" is close to what management-consultants learn as "brand harvesting" -- the classic example being Schlitz beer, a once-beloved brand (I am told), where MBAs substituted cheap ingredients in order to trade on the name until the name was destroyed. The brand is no longer used. Possibly there is a difference though, in that "enshittification" implies less intentionality or understanding of the second-order consequences (brand destruction), whereas "brand harvesting" leans into it in the most cynical way possible, implying that the value of a brand is something that one could rationally choose to liquidate. It seems that it's basically the same thing as the debasement of a currency (like a brand, also a symbolic thing), or the Cantillon Effect, which (like brand harvesting) exploits the fact that information takes time to propagate and people take time to learn and react. There's a window where your adulterated beer still has the respected label, where your newly-printed dollars are not yet in general circulation, or where ad revenue is up and your customers haven't yet bothered to cancel their Netflix subscriptions.

Freedom5093 3y ago

> The whole concept is pretty stupid, rooted in a silly assumption; that a grand, noble mission is essential to motivate employees. I am motivated by an important mission, in fact, but I am more motivated by having ongoing impact on that mission (making a difference). I work in defence, so you'd think there's a lot of opportunity to keep people safe, help leaders make better decisions, etc. So far from my perspective, these companies are not very motivated or successful at solving the missions they boldly claim. As a result, I am motivated to leave these places, that lie or are incompetent at solving these missions. For example, a defence company says they want to "serve our democracies", but they hardly have any users. Another defence company has been building product for 4 years, yet has 0 users over that time. Then there are other, defence companies with unicorn valuation with also very cool marketing, but very little impact in ongoing crisis. All the mentioned companies have very good publicity, it's not until you work for them you realise they have 0 impact. There is no reason to change their ways, because they can continue to sign more contracts with gov (tens of millions, hundreds of millions). All you see publicly is cool tens/hundreds of million investment or contracts, cool movie like drone shots, "AI", cool drones, explosions, jets and good music. You don't get to see the 0 impact. Or worryingly, negative impact when these things don't work. I've been working in defence-tech startups for more than 2 years.

andrepd 3y ago
Pardon me if I misunderstand, but this seems to hed exactly what TFA is talking about: the need to believe you're doing a grand mission to make the world a better place when in fact you're just getting rich off selling death drones to the highest bidder...
quickthrower2 3y ago
Can you really have a noble mission as a defence company or are you effectively a soldier of sorts, paid to execute the aims of the governments you sell to. You are as moral or possible immoral, as those bosses and same for effectiveness. If your customer does something ineffective with your plane or whatever then it ain’t your mission. Your mission is really to provide great equipment to soldiers. Not to protect America. See the sister ship building comment. It is more like that than protecting democracy.

Animats 3y ago

"A computer on every desk, running Microsoft software" - early Microsoft mission statement. Mission accomplished. A good one from the 19th century: "We will build good ships. At a profit if we can, at a loss if we must. But always good ships." - Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Company. That's on a big plaque at the front gate. It was removed for some years when Tenneco, an auto parts conglomerate, owned the place. It's back now.

gregoriol 3y ago
Those are really great missions! Not like the bullshit startup ones in the blog post. Missions are what makes employees understand what they are here for. If it is bullshit, employees are gonna be bullshitting. If it is about something that they can feel, it will make their journey in the company better.
fransje26 3y ago
And, of course: I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth.
Animats 3y ago
Newport News Shipbuilding still has the plaque on display, but the location is less prominent.[1][2] It's on what looks like a gravestone in a little grass circle in a parking lot, instead of at the main gate. The company itself does not mention it. A bad sign. [1] https://pic2.zhimg.com/v2-e98cc37cfad022461087b1f49649d0a5_r.jpg https://pic2.zhimg.com/v2-e98cc37cfad022461087b1f49649d0a5_r... [2] https://earth.google.com/web/@36.98742381,-76.43708574,3.5191683a,123.80918474d,15y,250.48055604h,0t,0r https://earth.google.com/web/@36.98742381,-76.43708574,3.519...

onion2k 3y ago

When I got to a position where I started leading teams something I quickly realized is that I can't generalize about people. Everyone is different. We're all motivated by different things, and you have to account for that as a manager. Some people are motivated by lofty goals and values statements that companies write. Linking their work to a value statement the company has written definitely works. Other people just laugh if you try it. The lesson is that universal statements like this are wrong. The mission just doesn't motivate everyone. That said, I'm fairly sure the Asana one is trolling.

switch007 3y ago
Or are those people just playing you? Some people are really good at playing along. I do it pretty convincingly. You make way more friends than being the grumpy git who moans about annoying HR stuff all the time. I pretend to like my boss’ jokes, some of his interests etc. Makes for a way better relationship. I’m not the only one who does it. I’d say the majority does!
- yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
  > I pretend to like my boss’ jokes, some of his interests etc. Makes for a way better relationship. I’m not the only one who does it. I’d say the majority does! Speaking as a boss, this is deeply depressing.
  - switch007 3y ago
    Not unexpected though surely. Why should employees not engage in marketing, just like your company does? Sucking up to your boss is a tale as old as time lol
    - yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
      No, not unexpected, but depressing nonetheless.
  - orwin 3y ago

or_am_i 3y ago

Do you think there might be more functions to a mission other than to motivate employees with some grand narrative? Perhaps it could serve as a basis for alignment, potentially helping to write strategies, set goals and sometimes even take day-to-day decisions on all levels? I have certainly seen mission statements that are useful in this sense, not just on a company level, but on a level of platforms and individual teams. Personally, I find it much easier to work towards explicitly stated common goals.

YouWhy 3y ago

My reading of the text is as a foreigner's critique of the American trope of asserting an ideal purpose to everything. An example from my own experience: an org leader proclaiming the need for "laser sharp focus". Amigo, you're running an organizational metrics p-value hacking campaign, which is by definition not a "focused" play. Could have said something useful like "let's be effective about our experimentation", but no, you must go through the motions of blabbering as if you're an action movie hero.

vinay_ys 3y ago

A clear mission statement can help to guide decision-making and keep the company focused on its goals. It can provide a framework for evaluating new initiatives and ensuring that they are aligned with the company's overall vision. Also a compelling mission statement can attract top talent who are aligned with the company's values and goals. This can be a significant advantage for startups competing for a limited pool of skilled workers. This was clearly true for Google with its mission. There are so many other successful examples. Looks like author is burned by bad startups with inauthentic mission statements.

nonrandomstring 3y ago
> This was clearly true for Google with its mission. Sorry if I missed your sarcasm, but wasn't Google's mission "Don't be evil"? [0] They so totally failed at that the motto became an embarrassment, so they fired two leaders of ethics, Margaret Mitchell and Timnit Gebru, for being too ethical, and then re-branded as Alphabet with a new mission of "Do the right thing" (ie. make lots of money). I mean, just this random tidbit: " 2021, 3 former Google employees filed a lawsuit alleging that Google's motto "Don't be evil" amounts to a contractual obligation that the tech giant violated, that Google broke their own moral code by firing them as retaliation for their efforts against 'evil'... " [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil

julienreszka 3y ago

terrible take. Just say some of those missions don't speak to you a be done with it. Why immediately say they are bullshit. It reminds me of this terrible book theorising that people have bullshit jobs, among others: - personal assistants, - door greeters, - executive assistants But in reality just the other day here on hacker news someone was essentially asking for a personal assistant. [1] 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39137625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39137625

quickthrower2 3y ago
> At Asana, our mission is to help humanity thrive by enabling the world’s teams to work together effortlessly. Come on! At some point let’s be normal people and say “yeah I wasn’t born yesterday”. The emperor is naked here!
- lo_zamoyski 3y ago
  https://youtu.be/FGiocp7_jE8 https://youtu.be/FGiocp7_jE8
ThinkBeat 3y ago
How do you define "door greeter" as? Does that include doormen/porters or just the people at WalMart for instance who will tell you "Hello" as you enter the store? So it is a pointless job since the vast majority of hotels, residential buildings and office buildings have eliminated that role, and they all remain in business. Not filling the role has had minor or no negative impact. I have never picked hotels or office space based on the criteria of having doorman. Nor if they had bellhops. I do think it is nice when there is a doorman and somewhat nice when there is a porter. The endless tipping I dont like. When it comes to an assistant that number of people employed in that role has also severely declined over the years, and most business continue to function without secretaries. (and save money). There are of course many types of personal assistants, and some more common than others. I would love to have one. Seriously. I cant afford one, and if I had enough money left over to hire one I doubt I would. So many tasks that a PA could handle for me are now easy to do via the net myself, plus if it comes to something specific, I need handled it is easy to "rent one" that will handle it.

quickthrower2 3y ago

I love that someone said this. And so articulately. It has bothered me / mild lol at “missions” of these corporates. I also think you don’t need to be the Valve one either. Not everyone is going to be number 1. Be an OpenAI or a Valve. Plenty of money to be made as an Ikea or even the even more budget than Ikea furniture company.

kingkongjaffa 3y ago

reading the comments here, it strikes me that somethings written down look like 'missions' i.e. a statement of the reason the company exists, and others describe a 'vision' i.e. a description of a future state. I wonder if one or the other is more important in your opinions, are both required at all? To be honest as product manager a tool I have to promote my product before I have engineers build the thing, is a strong vivid vision statement. "in the future our customers will be able to do x [for the first time/faster/cheaper/easier/better]"

aEJ04Izw5HYm 3y ago

Business and Management practices rarely evolve to optimise anything other than the rate of output. Vision/Mission/Values can potentially improve the sanity of those involved and at least it stands as a shared ambition and social contract to possibly give employees and public a valid route for criticism (other than share price). I'll celebrate and encourage practical optimisations for people over money alone.

lmeyerov 3y ago

Setting aside the nonsense missions, I find it surprisingly useful from a self-determination perspective when working with a strongly motivated team: - On one hand we say '100Xing investigations'. This is customer centric, focusing on the process they go through. - Our team & history are deep tech - GPUs, program synthesis & language technology, graph AI, and large-scale visualization. This is not customer centric, but does give us differentiating ingredients for achieving that. Why this matters is we try to have loose management with declarative assignments. It's one thing for folks to be senior on their craft and know the multiple paths to achieve something... and another for them to know how to make tricky trade-offs that align with the company. The technology investments show where spending a bit of extra time helps under-the-hood, and the customer problem focus is even better for that. Likewise, when someone veers off, it's a lot easier for a peer to gut check. Our early days were too tech-centric in mission, and that led some things astray. There are other reasons too, such as helping team cultural assignment. Overall, having something good here does simplify a lot. If startups are a team of people navigating their way to a scalable business, getting the mission right is a natural aspect of figuring out what value you are bringing to what customers.

zx8080 3y ago

> I don’t know why startups have the urge to write statements like this, to connect themselves to a noble goal. They sell it to inveators for to get some free money. That's it, no magic. In general, people do seemingly strange things mainly for two cases: power and money (it just gives power). So only one, but that's usually more complex to understand.

probn0 3y ago
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ngrilly 3y ago

Companies need a mission statement telling why the company needs to exist. Unfortunately, as highlighted by the author, too often these mission statements are bullshit, which is making them pretty useless, even counterproductive.

jackcosgrove 3y ago

> What actually drives employees is the inner workings of a company: the degree of autonomy employees have, the quality of products being shipped, and having impressive people as seniors and leaders, who have good product vision. I think the author was actually being generous by describing employees this way, because there's no mention of pay. Scratch the surface of the mission at a lot of companies, especially startups, and it becomes clear it's a recruiting tactic and no-cost psychological reward. Which is fine if the employer and employee are aligned and the tradeoff understood. But the criticisms of low pay in the "helping professions" could be applied here. Personally I think most company missions are insincere and I would not accept lower pay to work for a mission-driven company.

andrewstuart 3y ago

I'd prefer something like: "At company Foo our mission is to create software that people use, love and pay for, and along the way to find fulfillment through challenging work that makes us learn, allows us all to be paid well, lead a happy life and make scads of moolah for our investors."

Ekaros 3y ago
Maybe apart from "love". Isn't that something that should be taken. That is any company should make product that sells and is used. And in general work should be fulfilling and paid. While generating profit for owners. Like absolute barest minimum for any company.

rambambram 3y ago

You can say of Musk what you want, but "Going to Mars" is a big and clear mission statement that can (and does?) inspire the whole of humanity. A former boss of mine always talked about the 'tempting perspective', I like that take.

satisfice 3y ago
Going to Mars is a dumb idea. So, only inspiring to some. (If you think it’s truly and inspiring then think about it for 10 minutes, please. What exactly would happen to people who go to Mars? And what happens after that?) Prevent the destruction of humanity on Earth is more to the point for me.
- rambambram 3y ago
  I'm not saying I agree. edit: nicer words

satisfice 3y ago

Nicely written. It’s not against missions; it’s against lies.

stavros 3y ago
He's not going to like the CIA's mission then.
- satisfice 3y ago
  I love comebacks like that. They are not appreciated as much as they should be. My day is brighter now.

DrNosferatu 3y ago

A Berlin startup that dealt in being an Uber for house cleaners, even forced the poor souls to write what was their “mission in cleaning” - true story.

avereveard 3y ago

typical "I don't understand it so it's bullshit" rant. pinning it on "motivation" is very naive and highlight lack of self reflection or understanding on the topic. the mission has a very real objective, which is align everyone own goals to the overal goals. it's a protection against micromanagement. it enables manager in the org to self check if their goals are aligned to where the company wants to be instead of bubbling up to leadership every single decision in turn, if the management goals are all aligned, cross development collaboration is much more likely, because both team share similar goals and kpi and will have concrete benefit in collaborating reaching these in turn each developer has a set target, and doesn't need to bubble up to management every decision. it is enabled to decide autonomously which course of action aligns the daily task with the yearly goal, benefitting indirectly from a clear mission in term of needing less micromanagement. now that's the optimum and not always the case, typical failure scenario include bad mission, unaligned goals or unrelated kpi, there are more than a few companies where the whole chain breaks here or there, but that doesn't mean the underlying principle is sound: substituting direct guidance with guidelines removes micromanagement and enable roles autonomy. it's quite common for developer "not seeing it" because they don't really engage in thinking why and what would be the alternative, or because they have been in suboptimal working places, but before calling any universal truth maybe the writer should have done some cursory research on the topic at the very least and merged his anectdotes with the underlying theory to contrast where things went wrong. beside the bit around valve is also a bit miopyc. even if they don't call it mission, they have a clear vision and they say as much: "Our platform connects players with the world's greatest entertainment. " and the product goals derive from that. and in the end, the true colors of the poster finally shows: > cut the crap about socially concerned goals

nemothekid 3y ago

This is something I would have agreed on when I was younger, but after being in the drivers seat I can really see that I was missing the forest for the trees. It's very easy to say "all these billion dollar companies are wrong" when you haven't tried herding cats yourself.

tetrisgm 3y ago

"Our mission is to make cool stuff, learn some shit, and make money in the process" would apply everywhere. But business has the veneer of being super serious and you can't say things like that. It's an oddity of how society just has some taboos and acceptable behavior from companies. It's also why the inverse (leadership at a company being straightforward) is seen as rare.

1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago

Mission statements are important for real companies, not so-called "tech" companies. He cites Patagonia, Honest Tea and IKEA as examples of real companies. None of them engage in data collection, surveillance and advertising services via positioning themselves as intermediaries (middlemen) and then call this a "business model". None of them are just giant websites that derive their profit from other peoples' work, so-called "user-generated content". As one might expect, the mission statements of real companies are not bullshit.