7 ms·

Alabama executes Kenneth Smith using untested method of nitrogen gas

19 points by whycome 3y ago

whycome 3y ago
> Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who along with two other liberal justices dissented, wrote: “Having failed to kill Smith on its first attempt, Alabama has selected him as its ‘guinea pig’ to test a method of execution never attempted before. The world is watching.”
pyeri 3y ago
Has anyone here read the John Grisham novel "The Chamber"!
tjpnz 3y ago
Truly barbaric, even without the earlier failed attempt. If this wasn't cruel and unusual punishment I'm struggling to know what is.
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - morelisp 3y ago
    > It's something you literally wouldn't realize is happening until they wheel you in on the gurney and put the mask on your face. You’re deeply evil.
    - CamperBob2 3y ago
      Muhahahaha
  - piva00 3y ago
    Isn't 22 minutes of struggle a bit cruel and inhumane in your eyes? Ask a friend to tie you down on a negative prone position, looking forward, then to drape a wet towel around your face and slowly drop water on it for about 22 minutes, let me know how comfortable that feels.
  - Arnt 3y ago
    Serious question: Does "something you literally wouldn't realize is happening" apply even if you're told about it in advance? I mean… I fell asleep last night without realising it even though I knew it was going to happen. Is inert-gax asphyxia like that? If it's supposed to be like that: Why did the man struggle?
    - ryandvm 3y ago
      It sounds like somebody telling you, "you're going to die as soon as you fall asleep." Painless? Maybe, but you just might find me a wee bit squirmy.
    - CamperBob2 3y ago
      If it's supposed to be like that: Why did the man struggle? Call it a wild hunch, but my guess is he was struggling because some people were trying to kill him.
      - Arnt 3y ago
        That would be my hunch too. Hunches are cheap. GP seemed to have a little more than just hunches.
        CamperBob2 3y ago
        tjpnz called it "cruel and unusual punishment." Nitrogen asphyxia is unusual, but the fact is that it's not inherently cruel except in a purely-psychological sense, which would be true of any execution method. Those who claim it is painful are either mistaken or actively lying. We know that because it occasionally happens in industrial accidents, and survivors have consistently described the experience as painless. So it doesn't meet the standard for cruel and unusual punishment as far as the legal system is concerned. That has nothing to do with whether it's just. No form of capital punishment based on the blatantly-subjective standard of "guilt beyond reasonable doubt" can be just, but that's not what's being discussed here.
- UncleSlacky 3y ago
  Vets refuse to use it on animals, exactly because it's so cruel.
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    Some animals are sensitive to oxygen deprivation. Humans are not. Ask why you weren't told this.
- Ajay-p 3y ago
  Is death ever not barbaric? Death is death, and this man earned the right to be put to death.
  - Daviey 3y ago
    Despite the jury returning a verdict of 11 to 1 that his life should be spared, but the judge applied a since-repealed Alabama statute to override the jury, which was found to be unconstitutional by the United States Supreme Court. Seriously, the US system is a mess that this was allowed to happen. Along with the US only a few counties still have the death penalty, and many of them haven't done one for >20 years, meaning it is effectively gone.
infotainment 3y ago
It seems to me that in terms of executions, if the goal is doing it humanely as possible, the goal should be to do it as quickly as possible. In light of that goal, it seems like a firing squad or even a guillotine would be a better choice? From the article, it sounds like this process drew things out much longer than it really should have.
- tjpnz 3y ago
  That's what they say the goal is. But I suspect their main concern is to make sure it's not gruesome for those in attendance including the media. Guillotine would be the quickest way of conducting the execution but it would also quickly end executions.
  - morelisp 3y ago
    It also needs to be a method that isn’t pharmacologically complicated, because manufacturers and pharmacists refuse to be complicit in this today. That’s the main reason, and also a reason Alabama has botched so many executions in recent years with experimental drugs and untrained executioners.
- brodouevencode 3y ago
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9930870/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9930870/
bb123 3y ago
I thought the general understanding of inert gas asphyxia was that it was painless as gasses like nitrogen don't trigger the hypercapnic alarm response, which in humans arises mostly from blood carbon dioxide levels rising. This report makes it sound like that isn't the case. Does anyone know why?

19 points by whycome 3y ago

> Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who along with two other liberal justices dissented, wrote: “Having failed to kill Smith on its first attempt, Alabama has selected him as its ‘guinea pig’ to test a method of execution never attempted before. The world is watching.”

pyeri 3y ago

Has anyone here read the John Grisham novel "The Chamber"!

tjpnz 3y ago

Truly barbaric, even without the earlier failed attempt. If this wasn't cruel and unusual punishment I'm struggling to know what is.

CamperBob2 3y ago
[flagged]
- morelisp 3y ago
  > It's something you literally wouldn't realize is happening until they wheel you in on the gurney and put the mask on your face. You’re deeply evil.
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    Muhahahaha
- piva00 3y ago
  Isn't 22 minutes of struggle a bit cruel and inhumane in your eyes? Ask a friend to tie you down on a negative prone position, looking forward, then to drape a wet towel around your face and slowly drop water on it for about 22 minutes, let me know how comfortable that feels.
- Arnt 3y ago
  Serious question: Does "something you literally wouldn't realize is happening" apply even if you're told about it in advance? I mean… I fell asleep last night without realising it even though I knew it was going to happen. Is inert-gax asphyxia like that? If it's supposed to be like that: Why did the man struggle?
  - ryandvm 3y ago
    It sounds like somebody telling you, "you're going to die as soon as you fall asleep." Painless? Maybe, but you just might find me a wee bit squirmy.
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    If it's supposed to be like that: Why did the man struggle? Call it a wild hunch, but my guess is he was struggling because some people were trying to kill him.
    - Arnt 3y ago
      That would be my hunch too. Hunches are cheap. GP seemed to have a little more than just hunches.
      - CamperBob2 3y ago
        tjpnz called it "cruel and unusual punishment." Nitrogen asphyxia is unusual, but the fact is that it's not inherently cruel except in a purely-psychological sense, which would be true of any execution method. Those who claim it is painful are either mistaken or actively lying. We know that because it occasionally happens in industrial accidents, and survivors have consistently described the experience as painless. So it doesn't meet the standard for cruel and unusual punishment as far as the legal system is concerned. That has nothing to do with whether it's just. No form of capital punishment based on the blatantly-subjective standard of "guilt beyond reasonable doubt" can be just, but that's not what's being discussed here.
UncleSlacky 3y ago
Vets refuse to use it on animals, exactly because it's so cruel.
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  Some animals are sensitive to oxygen deprivation. Humans are not. Ask why you weren't told this.
Ajay-p 3y ago
Is death ever not barbaric? Death is death, and this man earned the right to be put to death.
- Daviey 3y ago
  Despite the jury returning a verdict of 11 to 1 that his life should be spared, but the judge applied a since-repealed Alabama statute to override the jury, which was found to be unconstitutional by the United States Supreme Court. Seriously, the US system is a mess that this was allowed to happen. Along with the US only a few counties still have the death penalty, and many of them haven't done one for >20 years, meaning it is effectively gone.

infotainment 3y ago

It seems to me that in terms of executions, if the goal is doing it humanely as possible, the goal should be to do it as quickly as possible. In light of that goal, it seems like a firing squad or even a guillotine would be a better choice? From the article, it sounds like this process drew things out much longer than it really should have.

tjpnz 3y ago
That's what they say the goal is. But I suspect their main concern is to make sure it's not gruesome for those in attendance including the media. Guillotine would be the quickest way of conducting the execution but it would also quickly end executions.
- morelisp 3y ago
  It also needs to be a method that isn’t pharmacologically complicated, because manufacturers and pharmacists refuse to be complicit in this today. That’s the main reason, and also a reason Alabama has botched so many executions in recent years with experimental drugs and untrained executioners.
brodouevencode 3y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9930870/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9930870/

bb123 3y ago

I thought the general understanding of inert gas asphyxia was that it was painless as gasses like nitrogen don't trigger the hypercapnic alarm response, which in humans arises mostly from blood carbon dioxide levels rising. This report makes it sound like that isn't the case. Does anyone know why?