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You’ll never know if you’re being discriminated against due to age. Not here in Australia anyway, no one would ever say out loud. You just don’t get selected.

You’ll never know if you’re being discriminated against due to age. Not here in Australia anyway, no one would ever say out loud. You just don’t get selected. I did go for a job recently where we had a great phone interview and the guy essentially said “everything looks great we just need to meet in person” and when we met in person I visibly saw his expression change. Something about my appearance, either age or weight or both. He emailed no thanks after.

alephnan 3y ago
This is a case where statistics could prove of systemic discrimination and statistical anomalies
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bigstrat2003 3y ago
  They can prove statistical anomalies, sure. But no amount of statistics can prove discrimination (contrary to popular belief these days).
  - Terr_ 3y ago
    > But no amount of statistics can prove By that logic [0] no amount of data can prove anything, and the label "unproven" becomes meaningless. (Especially if the twist-ending is that you're trapped in a dream and this conversation isn't happening.) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_demon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_demon
  - coldtea 3y ago
    With the right laws, a company could still be fined if they don't meet age percentage quota, so there's that. "Hmm, all your hires are < 30 huh? OK, we don't care if you intended to discriminate or not, here's the fine".
  - harimau777 3y ago
    That's only the case if one believes that certain groups of people truly are superior or inferior.
JKCalhoun 3y ago
We (at Apple) interviewed a guy who was about my age (and I was already in my 50's at that time, ha ha). The interview(s) went great as far as I could suss but when we, the interviewers, met to go around and give the potential hire a thumbs up or thumbs down — one guy on our team was decidedly thumbs down. Why was he thumbs down? "I don't think he's a good fit for the team." When pressed for what that means he simply repeated it. Make of that what you will.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  There might be reasons you want to avoid hiring older software devs. I'm in my 50s. I've been through the death marches, the unrealistic goals, the 60-hour weeks, the last minute emergencies, the all-nighters trying to get a release out or trying to recover from the fallout of a poorly tested release. I won't do it anymore. Nobody I know who is my age will do that anymore. There's almost nothing that will keep me at work past 5:00. The sun will come up tomorrow and nobody will die. So if you're looking to hire someone who will ask "how high" when you say "jump" then you probably don't want to hire an older person.
  - YZF 3y ago
    I'm in my 50s and I don't think I changed that much. I pushed back on all these things when I was in my 30s. I avoided going to work for companies that had reputation of being badly managed. I never asked "how high" when someone said "jump". Never. I was good at what I did and that was more than enough. I was always highly opinionated and independent and it was never a problem finding great teams where that was valued. I still don't mind working longer hours when I'm excited about something. The all-nighters are definitely gone. But that was basically when I hit 30 or so. And when I did work all night, it's because I enjoyed doing it and I could do it. I started as a teen on personal projects. On the pro side, I've got enough experience that I avoid a lot of mistakes that I've made when I was younger, and I'm able to help the teams I lead avoid those same mistakes. That makes a huge difference.
  - neilv 3y ago
    > So if you're looking to hire someone who will ask "how high" when you say "jump" then you probably don't want to hire an older person. That's not altogether true. And it's going to get misinterpreted by young startup founders without a lot of experience.

alephnan 3y ago

This is a case where statistics could prove of systemic discrimination and statistical anomalies

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bigstrat2003 3y ago
They can prove statistical anomalies, sure. But no amount of statistics can prove discrimination (contrary to popular belief these days).
- Terr_ 3y ago
  > But no amount of statistics can prove By that logic [0] no amount of data can prove anything, and the label "unproven" becomes meaningless. (Especially if the twist-ending is that you're trapped in a dream and this conversation isn't happening.) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_demon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_demon
- coldtea 3y ago
  With the right laws, a company could still be fined if they don't meet age percentage quota, so there's that. "Hmm, all your hires are < 30 huh? OK, we don't care if you intended to discriminate or not, here's the fine".
- harimau777 3y ago
  That's only the case if one believes that certain groups of people truly are superior or inferior.

JKCalhoun 3y ago

We (at Apple) interviewed a guy who was about my age (and I was already in my 50's at that time, ha ha). The interview(s) went great as far as I could suss but when we, the interviewers, met to go around and give the potential hire a thumbs up or thumbs down — one guy on our team was decidedly thumbs down. Why was he thumbs down? "I don't think he's a good fit for the team." When pressed for what that means he simply repeated it. Make of that what you will.

SoftTalker 3y ago
There might be reasons you want to avoid hiring older software devs. I'm in my 50s. I've been through the death marches, the unrealistic goals, the 60-hour weeks, the last minute emergencies, the all-nighters trying to get a release out or trying to recover from the fallout of a poorly tested release. I won't do it anymore. Nobody I know who is my age will do that anymore. There's almost nothing that will keep me at work past 5:00. The sun will come up tomorrow and nobody will die. So if you're looking to hire someone who will ask "how high" when you say "jump" then you probably don't want to hire an older person.
- YZF 3y ago
  I'm in my 50s and I don't think I changed that much. I pushed back on all these things when I was in my 30s. I avoided going to work for companies that had reputation of being badly managed. I never asked "how high" when someone said "jump". Never. I was good at what I did and that was more than enough. I was always highly opinionated and independent and it was never a problem finding great teams where that was valued. I still don't mind working longer hours when I'm excited about something. The all-nighters are definitely gone. But that was basically when I hit 30 or so. And when I did work all night, it's because I enjoyed doing it and I could do it. I started as a teen on personal projects. On the pro side, I've got enough experience that I avoid a lot of mistakes that I've made when I was younger, and I'm able to help the teams I lead avoid those same mistakes. That makes a huge difference.
- neilv 3y ago
  > So if you're looking to hire someone who will ask "how high" when you say "jump" then you probably don't want to hire an older person. That's not altogether true. And it's going to get misinterpreted by young startup founders without a lot of experience.