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Absolutely spot on, and it really does seem like it’s always Android users moaning about Apple’s business model. Why can’t you and I just live happily in our w

Absolutely spot on, and it really does seem like it’s always Android users moaning about Apple’s business model. Why can’t you and I just live happily in our walled garden without zealots of open access ruining it for us? It truly boggles me. Is it jealousy? That’s all I can come up with.

manojlds 3y ago
What do you mean jealousy? Most Android users that come here could afford an iPhone if they want to.
- matwood 3y ago
  IDK. Android exists and is closer to the open model people here seem to want, yet the same people appear to knowingly still buy iPhones and complain it's not like Android.
  - manojlds 3y ago
    Mainly because Apple hardware is amazing. I used to run Windows on Bootcamp on my MacBook and loved it and now Windows is worse, Apple Silicon is just way better. If Apple didn't allow me to install outside the AppStore on my MacBook I will complain as well and hopefully you won't be like "IDK, Windows exists"
    - wrboyce 3y ago
      That doesn’t seem like something to legislate over to me though. “Your hardware is too good, you’re going to have to change the associated business model”? Madness, shouldn’t the onus just be on Android phone manufacturers to up their game? It’s not like Apple got where they are with iPhones for free, they heavily invested and are now enjoying the fruits.
    - matwood 3y ago
      > If Apple didn't allow me to install outside the AppStore on my MacBook I will complain as well and hopefully you won't be like "IDK, Windows exists" If Apple suddenly changed Macs, sure. But, iOS has always been this way. Anyone who bought an iOS device over the last decade+ knows exactly the limitations and how it works. Android exists for those who want more open, yet the market has shown ~50% don't care about Android level openness. I think it's wrong to legislate something just because it doesn't work how I want it to work, especially when an alternative does exist and consumers have spoken with their money. Of course, this would be different if Android and iOS operated the same, or one had an overwhelming majority of the market. Because then consumers wouldn't have a choice.
      - andersa 3y ago
        > I think it's wrong to legislate something just because it doesn't work how I want it to work What absolute nonsense is this? That is literally the entire point of legislation, to change things that aren't working how we want them to, for example to be more beneficial to society. Apple stealing money from a huge market isn't helping anyone so we fix it. Simple as.
        gwright 3y ago
        > That is literally the entire point of legislation, to change things that aren't working how we want them to, for example to be more beneficial to society. Where do you get this idea? What is the limit on this principle? The DMA that you keep referring to is an European legal framework. Is it your opinion that everyone must bow down to what European legislators and regulators deem "beneficial"? An argument that derives entirely from the idea that "the government has decided it is beneficial" is unpersuasive, IMHO.
        matwood 3y ago
        I said how I want them to work, not what is beneficial to society. Societal benefit is hard to balance and define. Don't assume what you want is automatically better for society as a whole.
- wrboyce 3y ago
  I didn’t mean “they can’t afford it” jealousy, but from my experience the quality of apps on iOS is significantly higher than Android, that’s what I was going for; jealous of the “polish”, if you will. Then again that could be because I’m used to iOS and find the Android UX patterns poor at best.
p_l 3y ago
You can. It's about making it your choice to do so, instead of Apple's.
- wrboyce 3y ago
  Is it not my choice though? When I buy an iPhone knowing how the App Store and their walled garden work? If anything, I could argue Android users pushing for more openness are invaliding my choice!
Macha 3y ago
> Absolutely spot on, and it really does seem like it’s always Android users moaning about Apple’s business model. They might be Android users _because_ they don't like Apple's control.
- wrboyce 3y ago
  Indeed, so why do they care what I can/can’t install on /my/ phone? I don’t need someone to fight my battles for me, and I certainly don’t need someone to fight their battles for me!
  - andersa 3y ago
    What are you talking about? I care about this because I want to use Apple hardware, under reasonable terms.
    - gwright 3y ago
      So you want to utilize the power of the state to force a private entity to sell its products under terms that are "reasonable" to you? Where is the limit on that sort of approach? Do you want the state to force everyone to set prices so that you can purchase everything at terms "reasonable" to you? How do we decide what is "reasonable"? Given the existence of the Android alternative it is hard for me to support the argument that the government should mandate how Apple conducts its business. Even when I agree that Apple's policies have problems, I still don't think heavy-handed regulation by government is necessarily better.
      - Macha 3y ago
        > So you want to utilize the power of the state to force a private entity to sell its products under terms that are "reasonable" to you? This is all consumer rights legislation. From the tone you are clearly opposed to this example, but it's not some revolutionary new concept.
        3y ago

manojlds 3y ago

What do you mean jealousy? Most Android users that come here could afford an iPhone if they want to.

matwood 3y ago
IDK. Android exists and is closer to the open model people here seem to want, yet the same people appear to knowingly still buy iPhones and complain it's not like Android.
- manojlds 3y ago
  Mainly because Apple hardware is amazing. I used to run Windows on Bootcamp on my MacBook and loved it and now Windows is worse, Apple Silicon is just way better. If Apple didn't allow me to install outside the AppStore on my MacBook I will complain as well and hopefully you won't be like "IDK, Windows exists"
  - wrboyce 3y ago
    That doesn’t seem like something to legislate over to me though. “Your hardware is too good, you’re going to have to change the associated business model”? Madness, shouldn’t the onus just be on Android phone manufacturers to up their game? It’s not like Apple got where they are with iPhones for free, they heavily invested and are now enjoying the fruits.
  - matwood 3y ago
    > If Apple didn't allow me to install outside the AppStore on my MacBook I will complain as well and hopefully you won't be like "IDK, Windows exists" If Apple suddenly changed Macs, sure. But, iOS has always been this way. Anyone who bought an iOS device over the last decade+ knows exactly the limitations and how it works. Android exists for those who want more open, yet the market has shown ~50% don't care about Android level openness. I think it's wrong to legislate something just because it doesn't work how I want it to work, especially when an alternative does exist and consumers have spoken with their money. Of course, this would be different if Android and iOS operated the same, or one had an overwhelming majority of the market. Because then consumers wouldn't have a choice.
    - andersa 3y ago
      > I think it's wrong to legislate something just because it doesn't work how I want it to work What absolute nonsense is this? That is literally the entire point of legislation, to change things that aren't working how we want them to, for example to be more beneficial to society. Apple stealing money from a huge market isn't helping anyone so we fix it. Simple as.
      - gwright 3y ago
        > That is literally the entire point of legislation, to change things that aren't working how we want them to, for example to be more beneficial to society. Where do you get this idea? What is the limit on this principle? The DMA that you keep referring to is an European legal framework. Is it your opinion that everyone must bow down to what European legislators and regulators deem "beneficial"? An argument that derives entirely from the idea that "the government has decided it is beneficial" is unpersuasive, IMHO.
      - matwood 3y ago
        I said how I want them to work, not what is beneficial to society. Societal benefit is hard to balance and define. Don't assume what you want is automatically better for society as a whole.
wrboyce 3y ago
I didn’t mean “they can’t afford it” jealousy, but from my experience the quality of apps on iOS is significantly higher than Android, that’s what I was going for; jealous of the “polish”, if you will. Then again that could be because I’m used to iOS and find the Android UX patterns poor at best.

p_l 3y ago

You can. It's about making it your choice to do so, instead of Apple's.

wrboyce 3y ago
Is it not my choice though? When I buy an iPhone knowing how the App Store and their walled garden work? If anything, I could argue Android users pushing for more openness are invaliding my choice!

Macha 3y ago

> Absolutely spot on, and it really does seem like it’s always Android users moaning about Apple’s business model. They might be Android users _because_ they don't like Apple's control.

wrboyce 3y ago
Indeed, so why do they care what I can/can’t install on /my/ phone? I don’t need someone to fight my battles for me, and I certainly don’t need someone to fight their battles for me!
- andersa 3y ago
  What are you talking about? I care about this because I want to use Apple hardware, under reasonable terms.
  - gwright 3y ago
    So you want to utilize the power of the state to force a private entity to sell its products under terms that are "reasonable" to you? Where is the limit on that sort of approach? Do you want the state to force everyone to set prices so that you can purchase everything at terms "reasonable" to you? How do we decide what is "reasonable"? Given the existence of the Android alternative it is hard for me to support the argument that the government should mandate how Apple conducts its business. Even when I agree that Apple's policies have problems, I still don't think heavy-handed regulation by government is necessarily better.
    - Macha 3y ago
      > So you want to utilize the power of the state to force a private entity to sell its products under terms that are "reasonable" to you? This is all consumer rights legislation. From the tone you are clearly opposed to this example, but it's not some revolutionary new concept.
      - 3y ago