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I think this perspective goes too far. Some people (me included) would actually like to have a secure, vetted ecosystem for software that gets installed on my

I think this perspective goes too far. Some people (me included) would actually like to have a secure, vetted ecosystem for software that gets installed on my phone (and even my computer). I realize that other people want something different. And think it is reasonable for people to want different approaches for different devices. Any regulations designed to ensure the "open" model shouldn't prevent the "closed" model from existing. Your comment just seems a bit to heavy handed to my ear. That being said, it seems to me that Apple's attempt is guaranteed to satisfy no one.

ROLELEE014 3y ago
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andersa 3y ago
You can have this! Simply only download apps from Apple's store. Apple still has no right to interfere in any way at all, or collect a tax, if I want to sell an app to someone else outside of it.
- jewelry 3y ago
  Why don't you use android device then? You're not forced to buy apple product if that's a priority for you.
  - andersa 3y ago
    I do use an android device. Apple hardware is very good however, so I am interested in buying some of their things aswell.
- halJordan 3y ago
  What about the people like you saying Apple has no place in between 3rd party devs and the end user? You literally said he couldn't have it? From your first post if you had your druthers Apple would be slapped harder and harder until they disband the App Store.
  - andersa 3y ago
    If the seller is voluntarily working together with Apple (i.e. purposefully selling the software through their store) that is obviously fine. The whole point of the DMA is we should not be forced to.
- threeseed 3y ago
  > Apple still has no right to interfere in any way at all, or collect a tax, if I want to sell an app to someone else outside of it. You seem to be demanding that everyone bend to your view of how the world should work. But the fact is that Apple has a right to determine what apps are on their platform. No different to how supermarkets choose what items to stock or social networks moderate what content to show.
  - andersa 3y ago
    Apple does not have a right to determine what software people run on their general purpose computers. That is the whole point of the DMA. I apologize if you couldn't understand this. > No different to how supermarkets choose what items to stock And yet, you can drive to Ikea and buy a couch without having to pay a fee to Walmart. Very curious. Want to think of a better analogy?
bloppe 3y ago
Nobody wants you to lose your ability to stay in the walled garden. We just want a way out ourselves, without paying exploitative fees.
willsmith72 3y ago
You 2 aren't in any disagreement. The whole point of all of these millions in legal fees is to even have the OPTION of an open model. Of course you'll always have walled garden option, that's apple's golden goose.
- halJordan 3y ago
  There is a disagreement, the first poster clearly believes Apple even having a closed App Store is an infringement, even if he can not use it. And it's honestly almost gaslighting to pretend that the first poster isn't making that argument
  - andersa 3y ago
    No, this is not true. I do not care about what Apple does with their App Store. The point is they should not be allowed to insert themselves into a relationship between me trying to sell something and someone else trying to buy it from me directly. No cost to Apple exists, thus they should not be paid. It's really simple actually.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
wrboyce 3y ago
Absolutely spot on, and it really does seem like it’s always Android users moaning about Apple’s business model. Why can’t you and I just live happily in our walled garden without zealots of open access ruining it for us? It truly boggles me. Is it jealousy? That’s all I can come up with.
- manojlds 3y ago
  What do you mean jealousy? Most Android users that come here could afford an iPhone if they want to.
  - matwood 3y ago
    IDK. Android exists and is closer to the open model people here seem to want, yet the same people appear to knowingly still buy iPhones and complain it's not like Android.
    - manojlds 3y ago
      Mainly because Apple hardware is amazing. I used to run Windows on Bootcamp on my MacBook and loved it and now Windows is worse, Apple Silicon is just way better. If Apple didn't allow me to install outside the AppStore on my MacBook I will complain as well and hopefully you won't be like "IDK, Windows exists"
      - wrboyce 3y ago
        That doesn’t seem like something to legislate over to me though. “Your hardware is too good, you’re going to have to change the associated business model”? Madness, shouldn’t the onus just be on Android phone manufacturers to up their game? It’s not like Apple got where they are with iPhones for free, they heavily invested and are now enjoying the fruits.
      - matwood 3y ago
        > If Apple didn't allow me to install outside the AppStore on my MacBook I will complain as well and hopefully you won't be like "IDK, Windows exists" If Apple suddenly changed Macs, sure. But, iOS has always been this way. Anyone who bought an iOS device over the last decade+ knows exactly the limitations and how it works. Android exists for those who want more open, yet the market has shown ~50% don't care about Android level openness. I think it's wrong to legislate something just because it doesn't work how I want it to work, especially when an alternative does exist and consumers have spoken with their money. Of course, this would be different if Android and iOS operated the same, or one had an overwhelming majority of the market. Because then consumers wouldn't have a choice.
earthling8118 3y ago
Your right to swing your arm ends at my nose. If you have to force other people into your closed ecosystem to maintain it, you're the problem.
- matwood 3y ago
  Who exactly was forced into using iOS? Is there some place with iOS as the only solution available?
  - andersa 3y ago
    Yes, iOS is the only solution available if I want to use iPhone hardware. Selling software to people that have phones has been recognized as a market under the DMA, which relieves Apple of any and all control over it.
manojlds 3y ago
Are you ok if on your MacBook you can install apps only from the AppStore? Do you want the option to install dmgs and heck even curl | bash ?
- echoangle 3y ago
  I wouldn’t be ok with that, but then I would just not buy it. I wouldn’t try to force them to let me install dmgs by suing them…
  - manojlds 3y ago
    You wouldn't, but that's what competent regulatory bodies are for.
xdennis 3y ago
I really don't understand this mentality of people who are happy to live in a free society but want North Korea on their phones. I wouldn't mind it if it was a fringe OS, but it's half the phone market.
- gwright 3y ago
  Who are you talking about? I explicitly said that I can understand the interest in both types of ecosystems and even that one person may like different scenarios for different devices.
- andersa 3y ago
  They probably have Apple shares. It's the only explanation I can think of for some of the people here actually arguing in favor of Apple stealing money from society with junk fees.
dcchambers 3y ago
> Some people (me included) would actually like to have a secure, vetted ecosystem for software that gets installed on my phone (and even my computer). And that thing already exists - it's the app store. No one would be stopping you from choosing to only download apps from the official app store, and I assume that many people would be similar to you. They will only use the official app store because that is the vetted-by-apple place to find software. But just because the closed and vetted ecosystem exists for users like you, doesn't mean that Apple should be able to prevent other people that don't care about that from doing what they want to with the devices they literally own.
autoexec 3y ago
> Some people (me included) would actually like to have a secure, vetted ecosystem for software that gets installed on my phone (and even my computer). I don't think the problem is the idea of an app store offering only secure and vetted software. Apple absolutely doesn't offer that right now, but even if they ever do offer something like that would you really want that to be the only way to get software on your device? Letting someone, no matter how trustworthy they are, decide for you what you can and cannot run on your own computer is a giving up a lot of freedom. I'd even say that was dangerous when it comes to our cell phones since we're basically stuck with just Apple or Google controlling our devices and for most people a cell phone is the only computer they own.
- gwright 3y ago
  > Apple absolutely doesn't offer that right now, but even if they ever do offer something like that would you really want that to be the only way to get software on your device? Did you read my entire comment? Both models should be available.

ROLELEE014 3y ago

[dead]

andersa 3y ago

You can have this! Simply only download apps from Apple's store. Apple still has no right to interfere in any way at all, or collect a tax, if I want to sell an app to someone else outside of it.

jewelry 3y ago
Why don't you use android device then? You're not forced to buy apple product if that's a priority for you.
- andersa 3y ago
  I do use an android device. Apple hardware is very good however, so I am interested in buying some of their things aswell.
halJordan 3y ago
What about the people like you saying Apple has no place in between 3rd party devs and the end user? You literally said he couldn't have it? From your first post if you had your druthers Apple would be slapped harder and harder until they disband the App Store.
- andersa 3y ago
  If the seller is voluntarily working together with Apple (i.e. purposefully selling the software through their store) that is obviously fine. The whole point of the DMA is we should not be forced to.
threeseed 3y ago
> Apple still has no right to interfere in any way at all, or collect a tax, if I want to sell an app to someone else outside of it. You seem to be demanding that everyone bend to your view of how the world should work. But the fact is that Apple has a right to determine what apps are on their platform. No different to how supermarkets choose what items to stock or social networks moderate what content to show.
- andersa 3y ago
  Apple does not have a right to determine what software people run on their general purpose computers. That is the whole point of the DMA. I apologize if you couldn't understand this. > No different to how supermarkets choose what items to stock And yet, you can drive to Ikea and buy a couch without having to pay a fee to Walmart. Very curious. Want to think of a better analogy?

bloppe 3y ago

Nobody wants you to lose your ability to stay in the walled garden. We just want a way out ourselves, without paying exploitative fees.

willsmith72 3y ago

You 2 aren't in any disagreement. The whole point of all of these millions in legal fees is to even have the OPTION of an open model. Of course you'll always have walled garden option, that's apple's golden goose.

halJordan 3y ago
There is a disagreement, the first poster clearly believes Apple even having a closed App Store is an infringement, even if he can not use it. And it's honestly almost gaslighting to pretend that the first poster isn't making that argument
- andersa 3y ago
  No, this is not true. I do not care about what Apple does with their App Store. The point is they should not be allowed to insert themselves into a relationship between me trying to sell something and someone else trying to buy it from me directly. No cost to Apple exists, thus they should not be paid. It's really simple actually.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

wrboyce 3y ago

Absolutely spot on, and it really does seem like it’s always Android users moaning about Apple’s business model. Why can’t you and I just live happily in our walled garden without zealots of open access ruining it for us? It truly boggles me. Is it jealousy? That’s all I can come up with.

manojlds 3y ago
What do you mean jealousy? Most Android users that come here could afford an iPhone if they want to.
- matwood 3y ago
  IDK. Android exists and is closer to the open model people here seem to want, yet the same people appear to knowingly still buy iPhones and complain it's not like Android.
  - manojlds 3y ago
    Mainly because Apple hardware is amazing. I used to run Windows on Bootcamp on my MacBook and loved it and now Windows is worse, Apple Silicon is just way better. If Apple didn't allow me to install outside the AppStore on my MacBook I will complain as well and hopefully you won't be like "IDK, Windows exists"
    - wrboyce 3y ago
      That doesn’t seem like something to legislate over to me though. “Your hardware is too good, you’re going to have to change the associated business model”? Madness, shouldn’t the onus just be on Android phone manufacturers to up their game? It’s not like Apple got where they are with iPhones for free, they heavily invested and are now enjoying the fruits.
    - matwood 3y ago
      > If Apple didn't allow me to install outside the AppStore on my MacBook I will complain as well and hopefully you won't be like "IDK, Windows exists" If Apple suddenly changed Macs, sure. But, iOS has always been this way. Anyone who bought an iOS device over the last decade+ knows exactly the limitations and how it works. Android exists for those who want more open, yet the market has shown ~50% don't care about Android level openness. I think it's wrong to legislate something just because it doesn't work how I want it to work, especially when an alternative does exist and consumers have spoken with their money. Of course, this would be different if Android and iOS operated the same, or one had an overwhelming majority of the market. Because then consumers wouldn't have a choice.

earthling8118 3y ago

Your right to swing your arm ends at my nose. If you have to force other people into your closed ecosystem to maintain it, you're the problem.

matwood 3y ago
Who exactly was forced into using iOS? Is there some place with iOS as the only solution available?
- andersa 3y ago
  Yes, iOS is the only solution available if I want to use iPhone hardware. Selling software to people that have phones has been recognized as a market under the DMA, which relieves Apple of any and all control over it.

manojlds 3y ago

Are you ok if on your MacBook you can install apps only from the AppStore? Do you want the option to install dmgs and heck even curl | bash ?

echoangle 3y ago
I wouldn’t be ok with that, but then I would just not buy it. I wouldn’t try to force them to let me install dmgs by suing them…
- manojlds 3y ago
  You wouldn't, but that's what competent regulatory bodies are for.

xdennis 3y ago

I really don't understand this mentality of people who are happy to live in a free society but want North Korea on their phones. I wouldn't mind it if it was a fringe OS, but it's half the phone market.

gwright 3y ago
Who are you talking about? I explicitly said that I can understand the interest in both types of ecosystems and even that one person may like different scenarios for different devices.
andersa 3y ago
They probably have Apple shares. It's the only explanation I can think of for some of the people here actually arguing in favor of Apple stealing money from society with junk fees.

dcchambers 3y ago

> Some people (me included) would actually like to have a secure, vetted ecosystem for software that gets installed on my phone (and even my computer). And that thing already exists - it's the app store. No one would be stopping you from choosing to only download apps from the official app store, and I assume that many people would be similar to you. They will only use the official app store because that is the vetted-by-apple place to find software. But just because the closed and vetted ecosystem exists for users like you, doesn't mean that Apple should be able to prevent other people that don't care about that from doing what they want to with the devices they literally own.

autoexec 3y ago

> Some people (me included) would actually like to have a secure, vetted ecosystem for software that gets installed on my phone (and even my computer). I don't think the problem is the idea of an app store offering only secure and vetted software. Apple absolutely doesn't offer that right now, but even if they ever do offer something like that would you really want that to be the only way to get software on your device? Letting someone, no matter how trustworthy they are, decide for you what you can and cannot run on your own computer is a giving up a lot of freedom. I'd even say that was dangerous when it comes to our cell phones since we're basically stuck with just Apple or Google controlling our devices and for most people a cell phone is the only computer they own.

gwright 3y ago
> Apple absolutely doesn't offer that right now, but even if they ever do offer something like that would you really want that to be the only way to get software on your device? Did you read my entire comment? Both models should be available.