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A clear sign that good anti-monopoly regulations result in a better world. Less rent-seeking from Apple at the expense of smaller software developers, more agen

by axlee 3y ago

A clear sign that good anti-monopoly regulations result in a better world. Less rent-seeking from Apple at the expense of smaller software developers, more agency for users when it comes to choosing their browser engine. I am sorry for non-EU consumers.

wvenable 3y ago
Apple has found a way to comply with the letter of this law but not the spirit. Although there are a few good results from this legislation and Apple (alternative browser engines), Apple has otherwise managed to mitigate nearly everything else to where there will be no significant difference for end users or developers.
- andylynch 3y ago
  They certainly have. Even re: browser engines, they are saying alternative ones will only be permitted in the EU.
multimoon 3y ago
I would argue that the regulation seems pretty ineffective since it was clearly too vague to force any change productive to the average end user. You can only get things through “approved marketplaces” where apple still has to notarize and still collects a fee. This new “core technology fee” is also concerning. The goal from the EU was clearly to make iOS have an android level of openness, and it seems to have failed at that and apple has made the experience altogether worse in retaliation. For the record - I’d love to have side loading on my phone. I’d love to be able to load IntelliJ on an iPad, but it is not the place of a government to regulate how a company is able to use their own platform that they developed with their own money and tools. It is not a monopoly, android exists so there is still user choice. Are we going to start worrying about the inability to download doom to your Samsung fridge because it doesn’t offer user choice? I’d argue that this isn’t a good example of an effective anti monopoly regulation, it’s a good example of how government regulation tends to just result in things being worse and more complex as everyone enters a race to sidestep.
- wvenable 3y ago
  > but it is not the place of a government to regulate how a company is able to use their own platform that they developed with their own money and tools. Umm, yes it is. There are plenty of government regulations of companies that are like this but you're so used to it elsewhere that you don't notice or think about it.
  - multimoon 3y ago
    I strongly disagree with that. Apple and Google have both spent billions developing and maintaining their respective platforms. A government entity shouldn’t be able to overreach and regulate how they are able to maintain and distribute their own platform. If Apples decisions were truly so anti-consumer, then consumers would use a different platform, such as android. This is as a developer who has to pay the App Store fees. All this regulation has done is make the app acquisition experience on iOS worse as a whole and laid a minefield of vague legal regulations and lawsuits yet to come.
    - wvenable 3y ago
      Apple (and every other company) is already subject to tons of consumer regulations -- many of them already concerning how they maintain, manage, and distribute their own platform. So why are all those regulations ok but this one isn't? If we remove all consumer protections and regulations then consumers could still -- as you say -- choose to use a different platform. You could argue this specific regulation itself is bad -- like you can with all other regulations -- but the concept of regulating a business for the benefit of consumers has long been already decided everywhere in the world.
      - multimoon 3y ago
        I don’t have any substantive basis to argue some other regulation versus this one that isn’t an emotional basis as a developer without doing further research, but this regulation has now inadvertently made it a worse experience. To my perception this regulation has gone far deeper than any before defining the “market gatekeepers” and attempting to govern how a company can monetize its own market. Regulations are usually “how a company can sell a product in the free market” not “how a company can monetize the services of its already existing product”. That is a consideration of the consumer during purchasing of the product, or a consideration of the developer when developing for it. At the minimum, this was a poorly planned and executed regulation as displayed by Apple here.
grishka 3y ago
> I am sorry for non-EU consumers. I'm sure there will be a way around this geoblock in no time. It may be as simple as changing the country in your Apple ID — just put a random address from that country in there and you're done.
- turquoisevar 3y ago
  They created a daemon called countryd that continuously checks a bunch of variables. Such as sim country, gps, WiFi country code if WiFi networks around you, Apple ID country etc. I know better than to say there will never be a way around it but you’ll probably have to be able to fool it while entirely in airplane mode, without SIM, while also finding a way to actually download what you want to install.
- akmarinov 3y ago
  As someone who has tried to get the non-VAT US prices - you need a credit card issued in the country you claim you’re from before downloading any apps.
  - grishka 3y ago
    That's if you plan to pay. You can download free apps without a credit card. I changed my app store country from Russia to the US this way because I got fed up with some free apps being unavailable because reasons. But even if you do want to pay for things, I suppose you can make a second account for the desired country, activate your iPhone and set up alternative app stores with that, and then log into your real one.
ReptileMan 3y ago
>Less rent-seeking from Apple Core technology fee

by axlee 3y ago

wvenable 3y ago

Apple has found a way to comply with the letter of this law but not the spirit. Although there are a few good results from this legislation and Apple (alternative browser engines), Apple has otherwise managed to mitigate nearly everything else to where there will be no significant difference for end users or developers.

andylynch 3y ago
They certainly have. Even re: browser engines, they are saying alternative ones will only be permitted in the EU.

multimoon 3y ago

I would argue that the regulation seems pretty ineffective since it was clearly too vague to force any change productive to the average end user. You can only get things through “approved marketplaces” where apple still has to notarize and still collects a fee. This new “core technology fee” is also concerning. The goal from the EU was clearly to make iOS have an android level of openness, and it seems to have failed at that and apple has made the experience altogether worse in retaliation. For the record - I’d love to have side loading on my phone. I’d love to be able to load IntelliJ on an iPad, but it is not the place of a government to regulate how a company is able to use their own platform that they developed with their own money and tools. It is not a monopoly, android exists so there is still user choice. Are we going to start worrying about the inability to download doom to your Samsung fridge because it doesn’t offer user choice? I’d argue that this isn’t a good example of an effective anti monopoly regulation, it’s a good example of how government regulation tends to just result in things being worse and more complex as everyone enters a race to sidestep.

wvenable 3y ago
> but it is not the place of a government to regulate how a company is able to use their own platform that they developed with their own money and tools. Umm, yes it is. There are plenty of government regulations of companies that are like this but you're so used to it elsewhere that you don't notice or think about it.
- multimoon 3y ago
  I strongly disagree with that. Apple and Google have both spent billions developing and maintaining their respective platforms. A government entity shouldn’t be able to overreach and regulate how they are able to maintain and distribute their own platform. If Apples decisions were truly so anti-consumer, then consumers would use a different platform, such as android. This is as a developer who has to pay the App Store fees. All this regulation has done is make the app acquisition experience on iOS worse as a whole and laid a minefield of vague legal regulations and lawsuits yet to come.
  - wvenable 3y ago
    Apple (and every other company) is already subject to tons of consumer regulations -- many of them already concerning how they maintain, manage, and distribute their own platform. So why are all those regulations ok but this one isn't? If we remove all consumer protections and regulations then consumers could still -- as you say -- choose to use a different platform. You could argue this specific regulation itself is bad -- like you can with all other regulations -- but the concept of regulating a business for the benefit of consumers has long been already decided everywhere in the world.
    - multimoon 3y ago
      I don’t have any substantive basis to argue some other regulation versus this one that isn’t an emotional basis as a developer without doing further research, but this regulation has now inadvertently made it a worse experience. To my perception this regulation has gone far deeper than any before defining the “market gatekeepers” and attempting to govern how a company can monetize its own market. Regulations are usually “how a company can sell a product in the free market” not “how a company can monetize the services of its already existing product”. That is a consideration of the consumer during purchasing of the product, or a consideration of the developer when developing for it. At the minimum, this was a poorly planned and executed regulation as displayed by Apple here.

grishka 3y ago

> I am sorry for non-EU consumers. I'm sure there will be a way around this geoblock in no time. It may be as simple as changing the country in your Apple ID — just put a random address from that country in there and you're done.

turquoisevar 3y ago
They created a daemon called countryd that continuously checks a bunch of variables. Such as sim country, gps, WiFi country code if WiFi networks around you, Apple ID country etc. I know better than to say there will never be a way around it but you’ll probably have to be able to fool it while entirely in airplane mode, without SIM, while also finding a way to actually download what you want to install.
akmarinov 3y ago
As someone who has tried to get the non-VAT US prices - you need a credit card issued in the country you claim you’re from before downloading any apps.
- grishka 3y ago
  That's if you plan to pay. You can download free apps without a credit card. I changed my app store country from Russia to the US this way because I got fed up with some free apps being unavailable because reasons. But even if you do want to pay for things, I suppose you can make a second account for the desired country, activate your iPhone and set up alternative app stores with that, and then log into your real one.

ReptileMan 3y ago

>Less rent-seeking from Apple Core technology fee