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> To reflect the DMA’s changes, developers will be able to use alternative browser engines — other than WebKit — for dedicated browser apps and apps providing i

> To reflect the DMA’s changes, developers will be able to use alternative browser engines — other than WebKit — for dedicated browser apps and apps providing in-app browsing experiences in the EU. https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu/#browser-alt-eu https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu/#...

wlesieutre 3y ago
So now European users could be using Firefox with mobile gecko engine, but no one in the US will ever test with that because they're not allowed to have it. Fun!
- reacharavindh 3y ago
  Oh I don’t mind running iOS wrapper from Mozilla for Firefox mobile - but give me unlock origin, and I’ll thank you for ever!
  - afruitpie 3y ago
    You might be interested in Orion Browser [0] which is WebKit based and can install Firefox and Chrome extensions. [0] https://kagi.com/orion/ https://kagi.com/orion/
    - a_wild_dandan 3y ago
      Oh my god. If Orion supports the SponsorBlock extension, I'll die of happiness.
    - user_7832 3y ago
      Thanks, I'd forgotten about this.
    - reacharavindh 3y ago
      That’s perfect! It is funny that Kagi’s mobile browser allows Firefox extensions on iOS but Firefox for iOS doesn’t?
      - the_gipsy 3y ago
        Maybe it does install but the extensions never really work. Can't explain this otherwise.
        johnnyanmac 3y ago
        Firefox mobile extensions on mobile was basically a graveyard during their mobile overhaul. But it sounds like they are slowly making it easier to support mobile extensions with a metaphorical (or maybe literal) push of a button.
  - zshrc 3y ago
    Please, they could do it even with the WebKit wrapper. Edge managed to get AdBlock Pro and Brave has a content blocker built in.
    - turquoisevar 3y ago
      Are people still struggling with ad blockers on iOS in 2024? Just get the Wipr Safari extension, haven’t seen an ad since I got it the year extensions were introduced.
    - luuurker 3y ago
      And neither can block as much as uBlock Origin because of Webkit's limitations.
      - ashyaspen 3y ago
        https://kagi.com/orion/ https://kagi.com/orion/ Orion uses WebKit and has uBlock origin so I'm not so sure it's a limitation of WebKit itself.
        luuurker 3y ago
        Kagi is trying to implement the Web Extensions API on top of WebKit, that's why some extensions work: https://kagi.com/orion/faq.html#extensions https://kagi.com/orion/faq.html#extensions Write enough code and you can make these extensions run on IE6. :P
    - abhinavk 3y ago
      Firefox’s Strict Tracking Protection blocks more ads than Edge’s ABP.
- dleeftink 3y ago
  I'm sure there are creative ways around that. A fragmented market may even incentivise or inspire other regulators to follow suit.
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  You are acting like people today build for firefox desktop let alone the mobile port
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Diti 3y ago
    AFAIK, from various interactions I’ve had on here and on Lobsters, Big Tech developers seem to often have Firefox as a target. But people in startups don’t.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - Hugsun 3y ago
      My startup does.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - postalrat 3y ago
    I use firefox for desktop and mobile and dont have problems with websites. Do other people have trouble or something?
    - kjkjadksj 3y ago
      I do with bank and airline (spirit in particular from recent memory) and work internal websites, so I still occasionally reach for safari.
- s3p 3y ago
  And European users will have 3000 instances of Chrome now that every app is going to bundle it. I'm all for alternate rendering engines but without giving users a choice the bloat is going to be massive. I don't trust developers to not be bloating their apps and I can almost guarantee we'll see custom versions of Chrome to enhance dev tracking capability on users.
  - nox101 3y ago
    Apples rules make it clear you can't bundle Chrome. Your alternate browser has to be fundamentally a browser, not something else that happens to have a browser as an extra feature
  - tech234a 3y ago
    I don't expect many EU apps to bundle Chrome because they can't use it outside the EU and the benefits of bundling a different browser engine for in-app browsing would be limited for the types of basic browsing that is typically done inside a non-browser app. Additionally, Apple is imposing additional requirements on apps that embed alternative browser engines, including requiring apps to be updated within 15 business days of a browser engine update and requiring the app to only be available in the EU. As a result, I would expect Chrome/Firefox/Edge/Opera to ship their own browser engines on iOS but am doubtful that many other apps will embed Chromium/Gecko with the possible exception of apps that only operate in the EU.
  - Avamander 3y ago
    You don't need custom versions for Chrome for tracking. Plenty of apps force links to open in-app, inject JS and then you have to make a few additional taps to get it to open in untampered Safari
  - ravetcofx 3y ago
    This doesn't happen on Android really. Most developers use the built in WebView
    - albert180 3y ago
      It's all doom bullshit from Apple Fanboys. It's like they never touched an Android Phone in their live

wlesieutre 3y ago

So now European users could be using Firefox with mobile gecko engine, but no one in the US will ever test with that because they're not allowed to have it. Fun!

reacharavindh 3y ago
Oh I don’t mind running iOS wrapper from Mozilla for Firefox mobile - but give me unlock origin, and I’ll thank you for ever!
- afruitpie 3y ago
  You might be interested in Orion Browser [0] which is WebKit based and can install Firefox and Chrome extensions. [0] https://kagi.com/orion/ https://kagi.com/orion/
  - a_wild_dandan 3y ago
    Oh my god. If Orion supports the SponsorBlock extension, I'll die of happiness.
  - user_7832 3y ago
    Thanks, I'd forgotten about this.
  - reacharavindh 3y ago
    That’s perfect! It is funny that Kagi’s mobile browser allows Firefox extensions on iOS but Firefox for iOS doesn’t?
    - the_gipsy 3y ago
      Maybe it does install but the extensions never really work. Can't explain this otherwise.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        Firefox mobile extensions on mobile was basically a graveyard during their mobile overhaul. But it sounds like they are slowly making it easier to support mobile extensions with a metaphorical (or maybe literal) push of a button.
- zshrc 3y ago
  Please, they could do it even with the WebKit wrapper. Edge managed to get AdBlock Pro and Brave has a content blocker built in.
  - turquoisevar 3y ago
    Are people still struggling with ad blockers on iOS in 2024? Just get the Wipr Safari extension, haven’t seen an ad since I got it the year extensions were introduced.
  - luuurker 3y ago
    And neither can block as much as uBlock Origin because of Webkit's limitations.
    - ashyaspen 3y ago
      https://kagi.com/orion/ https://kagi.com/orion/ Orion uses WebKit and has uBlock origin so I'm not so sure it's a limitation of WebKit itself.
      - luuurker 3y ago
        Kagi is trying to implement the Web Extensions API on top of WebKit, that's why some extensions work: https://kagi.com/orion/faq.html#extensions https://kagi.com/orion/faq.html#extensions Write enough code and you can make these extensions run on IE6. :P
  - abhinavk 3y ago
    Firefox’s Strict Tracking Protection blocks more ads than Edge’s ABP.
dleeftink 3y ago
I'm sure there are creative ways around that. A fragmented market may even incentivise or inspire other regulators to follow suit.
kjkjadksj 3y ago
You are acting like people today build for firefox desktop let alone the mobile port
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Diti 3y ago
  AFAIK, from various interactions I’ve had on here and on Lobsters, Big Tech developers seem to often have Firefox as a target. But people in startups don’t.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Hugsun 3y ago
    My startup does.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- postalrat 3y ago
  I use firefox for desktop and mobile and dont have problems with websites. Do other people have trouble or something?
  - kjkjadksj 3y ago
    I do with bank and airline (spirit in particular from recent memory) and work internal websites, so I still occasionally reach for safari.
s3p 3y ago
And European users will have 3000 instances of Chrome now that every app is going to bundle it. I'm all for alternate rendering engines but without giving users a choice the bloat is going to be massive. I don't trust developers to not be bloating their apps and I can almost guarantee we'll see custom versions of Chrome to enhance dev tracking capability on users.
- nox101 3y ago
  Apples rules make it clear you can't bundle Chrome. Your alternate browser has to be fundamentally a browser, not something else that happens to have a browser as an extra feature
- tech234a 3y ago
  I don't expect many EU apps to bundle Chrome because they can't use it outside the EU and the benefits of bundling a different browser engine for in-app browsing would be limited for the types of basic browsing that is typically done inside a non-browser app. Additionally, Apple is imposing additional requirements on apps that embed alternative browser engines, including requiring apps to be updated within 15 business days of a browser engine update and requiring the app to only be available in the EU. As a result, I would expect Chrome/Firefox/Edge/Opera to ship their own browser engines on iOS but am doubtful that many other apps will embed Chromium/Gecko with the possible exception of apps that only operate in the EU.
- Avamander 3y ago
  You don't need custom versions for Chrome for tracking. Plenty of apps force links to open in-app, inject JS and then you have to make a few additional taps to get it to open in untampered Safari
- ravetcofx 3y ago
  This doesn't happen on Android really. Most developers use the built in WebView
  - albert180 3y ago
    It's all doom bullshit from Apple Fanboys. It's like they never touched an Android Phone in their live