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Tangential question, has anyone actually noticed bandcamp get worse? We know they did big layoffs (along with uh... EVERYONE ELSE) and we know they axed a bunch

Tangential question, has anyone actually noticed bandcamp get worse? We know they did big layoffs (along with uh... EVERYONE ELSE) and we know they axed a bunch of paid journalists (again, hardly uncommon), but as a frequent user I have not seen any negative change to me personally. Not saying they won't, lot's of acquisitions kill the golden goose, but so far I haven't noticed anything. Curious if others have. I also really don't understand all the comments online as if the sale from Epic to Songtrader was a sale from the boy scouts to darth vader. Didn't Epic buy them as a pawn in a legal battle? The sale people should be grumbling about was the one to Epic... and the people they should be complaining about are the founders who sold. :-/

cameron4 3y ago
I also haven't recognized any changes as a regular user and listener. I'm not an artist so I haven't uploaded any music and I do wonder if the artist experience has changed at all. I'm definitely bracing myself for change if / when it comes, however. I plan to keep using Bandcamp until then. When Epic bought the platform I do remember a similar reaction from folks, along with confusion because why would a gaming company buy a music platform, and what kind of dumb sweeping changes were they going to make? The Songtradr acquisition at least makes more sense from an industry standpoint. Personally, I feel better with the platform in their hands rather than Epic's
JohnFen 3y ago
Bandcamp has remained great for me.
bluescrn 3y ago
They've been gaining a reputation for banning artists/bands who are on the 'wrong side' of politics without notice or explanation. I guess many people will cheer that on these days, though. Conformity is the new punk?
- e12e 3y ago
  > artists/bands on the wrong side of politics Any examples? Which side is "wrong"?
  - portaouflop 3y ago
    Only thing I know is that they won’t allow certain black metal band covers that have swastikas in their covers. Which is perfectly fine IMO - that stuff can stay below ground.
    - artificial 3y ago
      Communist stuff gets a pass: https://nekrochaparro.bandcamp.com/album/hells-hammer-and-the-satanic-sickle https://nekrochaparro.bandcamp.com/album/hells-hammer-and-th...
      - thiagoharry 3y ago
        Well, the phrase "I think that workers should own the means of production" indeed do not sounds as bad for me as "I think some ethnical groups are inferior and we should get rid of them". I perfectly understand banning the second phrase and not the first one.
      - digging 3y ago
        Communist imagery isn't commonly associated with genocide in the US nor is it actively being used to promote genocide in the US, so this makes sense.
      - asimovfan 3y ago
        Are you really comparing communists with nazis?
  - artificial 3y ago
    Some examples: https://www.reddit.com/r/BreadTube/comments/11sqyue/tim_pool_got_banned_on_bandcamp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BreadTube/comments/11sqyue/tim_pool... https://www.davidrovics.com/bandcamp/ https://www.davidrovics.com/bandcamp/ https://x.com/realbrysongray/status/1633550771907117056?s=46&t=R6CGBXQWnHf87Lp5S54cpw https://x.com/realbrysongray/status/1633550771907117056?s=46...
- hamburglar 3y ago
  Where are you hearing this? I actively follow all bandcamp news to an almost obsessive degree and have not heard a whiff of this. The explanation could easily be the delusions of someone who’s soothing their own ego after getting the boot for legit TOS violations.
mikepurvis 3y ago
I'm still very happy with the service; it's my preferred/only vendor for paid music downloads, and although I appreciate and use the streaming available in the app, at the end of the day, that could all disappear and I'd still have my purchases. I know that's not the same for artists who have made more of an investment in it, promoted their bandcamp.com URLs and all, but as a consumer I'm content to continue using it as long as it delivers value to me, and cease using it when it does not.
mikeflstfi 3y ago
Speaking as an artist who has six albums on BC, I haven't seen anything that makes me think it's gotten worse. People are still listening and BCs terms and conditions for me are unchanged. I still like what BC is about, and it's why I moved off of Spotify/Apple.
mlochbaum 3y ago
Have continued using it as an artist and listener, and there's no way I'd have known anything changed from the site. They updated the terms of use, but only as necessary to reflect the change in ownership. And they are still doing Bandcamp Fridays, where the company gives up its cut on the first Friday each month, even though there was no promise or other indication they'd continue before the sale. I've seen rumors that support is getting worse, but only from reporters and not users, and it's a pretty easy site to use so I wouldn't think poor support is that much of a problem. I'd rather Bandcamp be independent and am still upset they sold out, but I like Songtradr much better than Epic as an owner. Their main business is facilitating B2B sales, which I think of as the same category as what Bandcamp does. They don't own music (except incidentally, from acquisitions) and don't have ties to RIAA and major labels like Spotify does. Main source for Songtradr info, although I've also done some outside reading: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37699552 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37699552
alisonatwork 3y ago
I still buy music there regularly and there is still plenty of new stuff being released. I really hope it doesn't go down the tubes, but so far so good for me. Perhaps people in the electronic scene are wary after the experience of Beatport selling to SFX and rapidly starting to suck. But in that case Beatport had already been trying to reinvent itself to some degree for several years ahead of the sale. Bandcamp was different because it pretty much knew what it was going to be in the beginning and still is that now, so it seems like a sustainable business, as long as the new owners are willing to just let it be.
Springtime 3y ago
Only two things I've noticed get worse as a buyer so far: - Virtually immediately following the Songtrader acquisition using the credit card checkout began giving 'security code mismatch' errors. This is a false positive and clicking the 'Complete purchase' button about a minute later is the workaround I've been using since. I'd never experienced the error in the years prior and this has been tried with multiple different cards. - There's no longer a live ticker on the home page showing the latest track/album purchases around the world.
- marcomourao 3y ago
  > - There's no longer a live ticker on the home page showing the latest track/album purchases around the world. Still there for me.
  - Springtime 3y ago
    Hmm, checked in a browser with no cookie restrictions and indeed it is. All JS is enabled either way but I only allow first-party domain cookies (ticker used to be fine like this but at least I know it's just a cookie thing now).
    - Semaphor 3y ago
      > but at least I know it's just a cookie thing now Nope, I also have cross-site cookies blocked and no issues with the ticker
deleted 3y ago
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Pxtl 3y ago
> We know they did big layoffs Did we ever get clarification if that was blanket layoffs including their tech talent or they were mostly targeted cutting of secondary stuff like the journalistic wings? Which, I mean it sucks for the writers that were there, but the journalism wasn't part of Bandcamp I was using, and I assume that's the case for most others. If the tech side is still generally intact? I would assume it would stay hunky dory. Anyhow, Epic runs an e-store and generally treats its employees well and so I was fine with them taking it - there was synergy there. Songtradr seems to be mostly about hoarding music rights, and is buying up music e-stores left and right, and did a large downsizing first thing after they bought Bandcamp. I think pessimism there made sense.
- iainctduncan 3y ago
  I don't understand how a video game company can be seen as more of a synergy than Songtradr. Given that songradr is in the digital rights exploitation business, I would guess they are more likely to be helpful to artists. Don't forget, you can only upload original tunes to bandcamp (no covers). If songtradr wants to exploit those rights further (publishing licensing, better PRO work, etc), they have to pay the artists - which most artists would love.
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    > Don't forget, you can only upload original tunes to bandcamp (no covers). What? Here’s a black metal cover of Hit me Baby (One more time): https://spider-god.bandcamp.com/track/baby https://spider-god.bandcamp.com/track/baby There are tons of covers on BC, never heard of that restriction.
    - iainctduncan 3y ago
      I don't think it gets enforced much, but it's definitely there in the terms of service and help pages. You need to have written permission from the copyright holders. This is not the same as for a "regular" release, where one only needs explicit permission if it's the first recording of the piece. (After that you can record a cover under what's called a compulsory license). When recording a cover, the seller must pay mechanical royalties to the rights holder of the composition, which Bandcamp doesn't want to do (though maybe Songtradr has plans??) and we can assume artists won't bother. Because bandcamp is selling releases (rather than just streaming), mechanicals would apply. Presumably they don't bother enforcing unless the rights holder makes a complaint. See "are covers ok" here (this predated the Songtradr acquisition, FWIW) https://bandcamp.com/terms_of_use https://bandcamp.com/terms_of_use

cameron4 3y ago

I also haven't recognized any changes as a regular user and listener. I'm not an artist so I haven't uploaded any music and I do wonder if the artist experience has changed at all. I'm definitely bracing myself for change if / when it comes, however. I plan to keep using Bandcamp until then. When Epic bought the platform I do remember a similar reaction from folks, along with confusion because why would a gaming company buy a music platform, and what kind of dumb sweeping changes were they going to make? The Songtradr acquisition at least makes more sense from an industry standpoint. Personally, I feel better with the platform in their hands rather than Epic's

JohnFen 3y ago

Bandcamp has remained great for me.

bluescrn 3y ago

They've been gaining a reputation for banning artists/bands who are on the 'wrong side' of politics without notice or explanation. I guess many people will cheer that on these days, though. Conformity is the new punk?

e12e 3y ago
> artists/bands on the wrong side of politics Any examples? Which side is "wrong"?
- portaouflop 3y ago
  Only thing I know is that they won’t allow certain black metal band covers that have swastikas in their covers. Which is perfectly fine IMO - that stuff can stay below ground.
  - artificial 3y ago
    Communist stuff gets a pass: https://nekrochaparro.bandcamp.com/album/hells-hammer-and-the-satanic-sickle https://nekrochaparro.bandcamp.com/album/hells-hammer-and-th...
    - thiagoharry 3y ago
      Well, the phrase "I think that workers should own the means of production" indeed do not sounds as bad for me as "I think some ethnical groups are inferior and we should get rid of them". I perfectly understand banning the second phrase and not the first one.
    - digging 3y ago
      Communist imagery isn't commonly associated with genocide in the US nor is it actively being used to promote genocide in the US, so this makes sense.
    - asimovfan 3y ago
      Are you really comparing communists with nazis?
- artificial 3y ago
  Some examples: https://www.reddit.com/r/BreadTube/comments/11sqyue/tim_pool_got_banned_on_bandcamp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BreadTube/comments/11sqyue/tim_pool... https://www.davidrovics.com/bandcamp/ https://www.davidrovics.com/bandcamp/ https://x.com/realbrysongray/status/1633550771907117056?s=46&t=R6CGBXQWnHf87Lp5S54cpw https://x.com/realbrysongray/status/1633550771907117056?s=46...
hamburglar 3y ago
Where are you hearing this? I actively follow all bandcamp news to an almost obsessive degree and have not heard a whiff of this. The explanation could easily be the delusions of someone who’s soothing their own ego after getting the boot for legit TOS violations.

mikepurvis 3y ago

I'm still very happy with the service; it's my preferred/only vendor for paid music downloads, and although I appreciate and use the streaming available in the app, at the end of the day, that could all disappear and I'd still have my purchases. I know that's not the same for artists who have made more of an investment in it, promoted their bandcamp.com URLs and all, but as a consumer I'm content to continue using it as long as it delivers value to me, and cease using it when it does not.

mikeflstfi 3y ago

Speaking as an artist who has six albums on BC, I haven't seen anything that makes me think it's gotten worse. People are still listening and BCs terms and conditions for me are unchanged. I still like what BC is about, and it's why I moved off of Spotify/Apple.

mlochbaum 3y ago

Have continued using it as an artist and listener, and there's no way I'd have known anything changed from the site. They updated the terms of use, but only as necessary to reflect the change in ownership. And they are still doing Bandcamp Fridays, where the company gives up its cut on the first Friday each month, even though there was no promise or other indication they'd continue before the sale. I've seen rumors that support is getting worse, but only from reporters and not users, and it's a pretty easy site to use so I wouldn't think poor support is that much of a problem. I'd rather Bandcamp be independent and am still upset they sold out, but I like Songtradr much better than Epic as an owner. Their main business is facilitating B2B sales, which I think of as the same category as what Bandcamp does. They don't own music (except incidentally, from acquisitions) and don't have ties to RIAA and major labels like Spotify does. Main source for Songtradr info, although I've also done some outside reading: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37699552 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37699552

alisonatwork 3y ago

I still buy music there regularly and there is still plenty of new stuff being released. I really hope it doesn't go down the tubes, but so far so good for me. Perhaps people in the electronic scene are wary after the experience of Beatport selling to SFX and rapidly starting to suck. But in that case Beatport had already been trying to reinvent itself to some degree for several years ahead of the sale. Bandcamp was different because it pretty much knew what it was going to be in the beginning and still is that now, so it seems like a sustainable business, as long as the new owners are willing to just let it be.

Springtime 3y ago

Only two things I've noticed get worse as a buyer so far: - Virtually immediately following the Songtrader acquisition using the credit card checkout began giving 'security code mismatch' errors. This is a false positive and clicking the 'Complete purchase' button about a minute later is the workaround I've been using since. I'd never experienced the error in the years prior and this has been tried with multiple different cards. - There's no longer a live ticker on the home page showing the latest track/album purchases around the world.

marcomourao 3y ago
> - There's no longer a live ticker on the home page showing the latest track/album purchases around the world. Still there for me.
- Springtime 3y ago
  Hmm, checked in a browser with no cookie restrictions and indeed it is. All JS is enabled either way but I only allow first-party domain cookies (ticker used to be fine like this but at least I know it's just a cookie thing now).
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    > but at least I know it's just a cookie thing now Nope, I also have cross-site cookies blocked and no issues with the ticker

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Pxtl 3y ago

> We know they did big layoffs Did we ever get clarification if that was blanket layoffs including their tech talent or they were mostly targeted cutting of secondary stuff like the journalistic wings? Which, I mean it sucks for the writers that were there, but the journalism wasn't part of Bandcamp I was using, and I assume that's the case for most others. If the tech side is still generally intact? I would assume it would stay hunky dory. Anyhow, Epic runs an e-store and generally treats its employees well and so I was fine with them taking it - there was synergy there. Songtradr seems to be mostly about hoarding music rights, and is buying up music e-stores left and right, and did a large downsizing first thing after they bought Bandcamp. I think pessimism there made sense.

iainctduncan 3y ago
I don't understand how a video game company can be seen as more of a synergy than Songtradr. Given that songradr is in the digital rights exploitation business, I would guess they are more likely to be helpful to artists. Don't forget, you can only upload original tunes to bandcamp (no covers). If songtradr wants to exploit those rights further (publishing licensing, better PRO work, etc), they have to pay the artists - which most artists would love.
- Semaphor 3y ago
  > Don't forget, you can only upload original tunes to bandcamp (no covers). What? Here’s a black metal cover of Hit me Baby (One more time): https://spider-god.bandcamp.com/track/baby https://spider-god.bandcamp.com/track/baby There are tons of covers on BC, never heard of that restriction.
  - iainctduncan 3y ago
    I don't think it gets enforced much, but it's definitely there in the terms of service and help pages. You need to have written permission from the copyright holders. This is not the same as for a "regular" release, where one only needs explicit permission if it's the first recording of the piece. (After that you can record a cover under what's called a compulsory license). When recording a cover, the seller must pay mechanical royalties to the rights holder of the composition, which Bandcamp doesn't want to do (though maybe Songtradr has plans??) and we can assume artists won't bother. Because bandcamp is selling releases (rather than just streaming), mechanicals would apply. Presumably they don't bother enforcing unless the rights holder makes a complaint. See "are covers ok" here (this predated the Songtradr acquisition, FWIW) https://bandcamp.com/terms_of_use https://bandcamp.com/terms_of_use