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Care to explain why you believe native apps are toast in the long run, or how that's related to data moving to the cloud? Web apps solved the problem of having

Care to explain why you believe native apps are toast in the long run, or how that's related to data moving to the cloud? Web apps solved the problem of having to figure out how to find, install, or update software and not having it everywhere you go. App stores have caught up on discovery/installation/updates, and mobile has solved the problem of not having it everywhere I go. Web apps will eventually catch up on performance and maybe someday they will feel like first class citizens in any given OS rather than being relegated to mess of throwaway tabs. We've been within 3 years of that for something like a decade, but maybe we really finally are within 3 years of that. But we aren't within 3 years of having any two web apps looking similar and using familiar UI elements. Every web app is a new UI to learn, maybe not a problem for you or me, but mobile has reached 3 year olds and 90 year olds and everyone in between, most of whom have not acquired the skill to pick up umfamiliar UIs and don't want to. As for data moving to the cloud, I'm with you. And I have a lot of native apps that interact with remote data.

wavephorm 15y ago
Mobile apps, especially iOS apps, are hobbled by their curators. iPhone's don't even have an open file system and the platform was purposely designed so that apps are isolated, and funneled through a strict paradigm. This most certainly is not what I, or a lot of people want in a computing device -- it will not work, simply because a majority of innovators do not want to be locked into that universe. Apple has designed their platform to be a dead end. It is almost comical that that Google, Microsoft, and RIM have been trying follow Apple toward this dead end. On the development side of things I believe we're going to see a massive shift back to web-app development simply because of economics. There is no way any small group of developers can build desktop, iOS, and Android versions of their application simultaneously. This iOS fad WILL DIE because of costs, and that fact that Android numbers are rising dramatically, and people need to come up with a way to support each mobile platform and be able to use that app from their desktops too -- mobile web apps are the answer.
- ryanhuff 15y ago
  Your reasons, while important and meaningful from a developers perspective, mean little to the consumer choosing between a native app and a mobile web app. What's in it for the consumer?
  - icebraining 15y ago
    Why would a consumer even know or care about that? They'll use whatever is easy to find, "install" (even if it means just a button that links to an URL), use and looks nice. They don't give a fuck if it's written JS or Java/ObjC or if it's HTML or XML or code rendering the UI.
- cageface 15y ago
  This most certainly is not what I, or a lot of people want in a computing device Most people don't even understand what a filesystem is, nevermind whether it's open or not. I agree with you that data is moving online but that's orthogonal to the native vs web app question.
  - wavephorm 15y ago
    I want a "cloud filesystem", but want it controlled by ME, not Apple, and not iCloud. That's the problem. Apple wants to control the filesystem, and I, and others are not willing to accept this horrific scenario.
    - cageface 15y ago
      Yes you and your techie friends care about this. Most people don't. Current trends indicate user attention is shifting even more to native, BTW: http://blog.flurry.com/bid/80241/Mobile-App-Usage-Further-Dominates-Web-Spurred-by-Facebook http://blog.flurry.com/bid/80241/Mobile-App-Usage-Further-Do... The web vs native debate is really just a debate about which technology is better suited to building cloud client apps. HTML5 + JS is just another UI stack like Cocoa Touch or Android.
    - shock-value 15y ago
randomfool 15y ago
I believe that Scott Jenson put it best in 'Why Mobile Apps Must Die'- http://vimeo.com/33692624 http://vimeo.com/33692624 Watch it. The problem with native apps is the installation barrier- if I had apps installed to do everything that I'd love my phone to do, I'd be overwhelmed with hundreds of apps installed. Web-based apps have the potential to slip in and out of use as necessary, with more applicable discovery mechanisms (geo, proximity, etc).
- ridiculous_fish 15y ago
  You speak of the "installation barrier" as if it's something insurmountable. But why should it be? A native app zero-install mechanism seems more plausible to me than wide adoption of a hypothetical geolocating proximity web. The reason is that native apps can move so much more quickly than web apps. I'll bet Apple could get widespread adoption of a zero-install feature on iOS in six months, simply by mandating it for the app store and featuring early adopters. But HTML5 YouTube has been in beta for over two years, and the <video> tag was introduced over half a decade ago. The web moves at a snail's pace by comparison. I did try to watch the video, but scrubbing didn't work, which sort of illustrates my point.
- cageface 15y ago
  Both web apps and native apps are here to stay. They have complementary strengths and weaknesses.

wavephorm 15y ago

Mobile apps, especially iOS apps, are hobbled by their curators. iPhone's don't even have an open file system and the platform was purposely designed so that apps are isolated, and funneled through a strict paradigm. This most certainly is not what I, or a lot of people want in a computing device -- it will not work, simply because a majority of innovators do not want to be locked into that universe. Apple has designed their platform to be a dead end. It is almost comical that that Google, Microsoft, and RIM have been trying follow Apple toward this dead end. On the development side of things I believe we're going to see a massive shift back to web-app development simply because of economics. There is no way any small group of developers can build desktop, iOS, and Android versions of their application simultaneously. This iOS fad WILL DIE because of costs, and that fact that Android numbers are rising dramatically, and people need to come up with a way to support each mobile platform and be able to use that app from their desktops too -- mobile web apps are the answer.

ryanhuff 15y ago
Your reasons, while important and meaningful from a developers perspective, mean little to the consumer choosing between a native app and a mobile web app. What's in it for the consumer?
- icebraining 15y ago
  Why would a consumer even know or care about that? They'll use whatever is easy to find, "install" (even if it means just a button that links to an URL), use and looks nice. They don't give a fuck if it's written JS or Java/ObjC or if it's HTML or XML or code rendering the UI.
cageface 15y ago
This most certainly is not what I, or a lot of people want in a computing device Most people don't even understand what a filesystem is, nevermind whether it's open or not. I agree with you that data is moving online but that's orthogonal to the native vs web app question.
- wavephorm 15y ago
  I want a "cloud filesystem", but want it controlled by ME, not Apple, and not iCloud. That's the problem. Apple wants to control the filesystem, and I, and others are not willing to accept this horrific scenario.
  - cageface 15y ago
    Yes you and your techie friends care about this. Most people don't. Current trends indicate user attention is shifting even more to native, BTW: http://blog.flurry.com/bid/80241/Mobile-App-Usage-Further-Dominates-Web-Spurred-by-Facebook http://blog.flurry.com/bid/80241/Mobile-App-Usage-Further-Do... The web vs native debate is really just a debate about which technology is better suited to building cloud client apps. HTML5 + JS is just another UI stack like Cocoa Touch or Android.
  - shock-value 15y ago

randomfool 15y ago

I believe that Scott Jenson put it best in 'Why Mobile Apps Must Die'- http://vimeo.com/33692624 http://vimeo.com/33692624 Watch it. The problem with native apps is the installation barrier- if I had apps installed to do everything that I'd love my phone to do, I'd be overwhelmed with hundreds of apps installed. Web-based apps have the potential to slip in and out of use as necessary, with more applicable discovery mechanisms (geo, proximity, etc).

ridiculous_fish 15y ago
You speak of the "installation barrier" as if it's something insurmountable. But why should it be? A native app zero-install mechanism seems more plausible to me than wide adoption of a hypothetical geolocating proximity web. The reason is that native apps can move so much more quickly than web apps. I'll bet Apple could get widespread adoption of a zero-install feature on iOS in six months, simply by mandating it for the app store and featuring early adopters. But HTML5 YouTube has been in beta for over two years, and the <video> tag was introduced over half a decade ago. The web moves at a snail's pace by comparison. I did try to watch the video, but scrubbing didn't work, which sort of illustrates my point.
cageface 15y ago
Both web apps and native apps are here to stay. They have complementary strengths and weaknesses.