9 ms·

Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

201 points by simanyay 14y ago

pascalchristian 14y ago
Chrysis (cough cough)
drivebyacct2 14y ago
I didn't know Aura was making such progress until my buddy got it on his CR48. I'm tempted to remove Ubuntu and reinstall crOS to use it longer, but I also still really appreciate my full Ubuntu environment. If I recall correctly, Aura also serves as a real proper full window manager and already has support for Wayland too!
benologist 14y ago
I don't think a new UI is enough to make Chromebooks suddenly matter. I got one at a conference and ended up giving it to a friend because the build quality and specs were terrible - it looked and felt and ran crap without even taking into consideration how different they are to use.
- AndrewNoNumbers 14y ago
  What's sad is that they couldn't get the original Chrome OS to feel any faster in use than Windows 7 on Atom.
MatthewPhillips 14y ago
I agree, especially about the Atom processor This computer is mid priced. Other laptops in that price range use real CPUs.
marcusestes 14y ago
Apparently it does have a terminal (Ctrl + Alt + T).
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
psychotik 14y ago
Anyone have a link to screenshots of the Aura UI?
- AndrewNoNumbers 14y ago
  http://googlesystem.blogspot.jp/2012/04/new-window-manager-for-chrome-os.html http://googlesystem.blogspot.jp/2012/04/new-window-manager-f...
  - prophetjohn 14y ago
    Looks like Windows 7 if it had OS X's launchpad.
    - checker659 14y ago
      I bet they wanted to make the UI as Windows like as possible because that's what most of the users are used to. The fact the chrome icon sits where the 'start' button sits on windows clearly isn't a coincidence.
wavephorm 14y ago
The "All-Web" paradigm is coming, folks. And it really doesn't matter how much you love your iPhone, or your Android, or Windows phone. Native apps are toast, in the long run. Your data is moving to the cloud -- your pictures, your music, your movies, and every document you write. It's all going up there, and local hard drives will be history within 3 years. And what that means is ALL software is heading there too. Native apps running locally on your computer are going to be thing of the past, and it simply blows my mind that even people here on HackerNews completely fail to understand this fact. The computing landscape is changing right now, and any company that revolves around servicing Windows desktop software is going to be in for a real hard time. Whether or not Google's Chrome OS is the eventual successor is not clear (I don't think it is), but their general idea is correct. The all-network, all-cloud world is coming whether you like it or not.
- whackberry 14y ago
  Are you being sarcastic?
- furyofantares 14y ago
  Care to explain why you believe native apps are toast in the long run, or how that's related to data moving to the cloud? Web apps solved the problem of having to figure out how to find, install, or update software and not having it everywhere you go. App stores have caught up on discovery/installation/updates, and mobile has solved the problem of not having it everywhere I go. Web apps will eventually catch up on performance and maybe someday they will feel like first class citizens in any given OS rather than being relegated to mess of throwaway tabs. We've been within 3 years of that for something like a decade, but maybe we really finally are within 3 years of that. But we aren't within 3 years of having any two web apps looking similar and using familiar UI elements. Every web app is a new UI to learn, maybe not a problem for you or me, but mobile has reached 3 year olds and 90 year olds and everyone in between, most of whom have not acquired the skill to pick up umfamiliar UIs and don't want to. As for data moving to the cloud, I'm with you. And I have a lot of native apps that interact with remote data.
  - 14y ago
hsshah 14y ago
While reading the post, I was not sure if the tone was sarcastic or genuine! On a second read, it does feel like a genuine comment. Some folks should use 'Not Sarcasm' tag!
- whackberry 14y ago
  That's the Linus way. You never know when he's being sarcastic, but mostly he's being serious with a few sarcastic turns.
fady 14y ago
i've been using the first gen chromebooks since they came out and have to say that the UI is a lot better than before. it felt like you could not escape the browser unless you closed all your tabs or shut it off, but with aura you feel at home with a "desktop" experience that just seems right. the hardware is another story...they're great for light browsing and netflix...kinda.
AndrewNoNumbers 14y ago
Time to boot back into Chrome OS on my Cr-48!
- dustinrodrigues 14y ago
  Maybe not, though: "The latest Chrome OS release is only available for Samsung and Acer Chromebooks as Cr-48 Chromebooks will skip Chrome 19." from http://googlesystem.blogspot.jp/2012/04/new-window-manager-for-chrome-os.html http://googlesystem.blogspot.jp/2012/04/new-window-manager-f...
  - pinwale 14y ago
    Google will be adding support for the Cr-48 in Chrome OS 20. From the comments: http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/2012/04/dev-channel-update-for-chromebooks.html http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/2012/04/dev-channel...
whackberry 14y ago
This is one of my heroes, he never has let me down in his opinions. No BS, straight talk, one of the very few relevant people still not sold out in this business. Turning the desktop into a retarded terminal for some company's javascript apps is a bad idea, but some can't seem to grasp that.
deet 14y ago
It saddens me that Chrome OS is switching from full-screen windows to a stacking metaphor. The opportunity to move to a tiling (even just two columns like Metro) paradigm was there and would be a natural extension of the tab metaphor. Disappointing, although I'm happy to see progress towards an OS that treats web apps as first-class.
- robbed 14y ago
  Aura does do 2 column tiling
peterwwillis 14y ago
UIs that have worked for people for years should never be replaced.
- msh 14y ago
  So we should all be using the windows 3.1 ui?
  - peterwwillis 14y ago
    Close. I've been using WindowMaker for 10 years. It's pretty perfect. No gimmicks. No unnecessary features. Lots of flexibility. Minimal. User friendly. Fast. Stable. It just works. If someone has used Windows 95 before, a whole slew of operating systems after will be intuitive and a random user will know how to use it without instruction. They don't need anything more advanced. They just need it not to crash or bloat or change and become confusing. Most people just want shit to work.
    - msh 14y ago
      Last time I used windowmaker it required hand editing config files, thats a pretty long way from shit that just work for most people.
      - peterwwillis 14y ago
        I've been using this handy graphical tool called WPrefs that ships with WindowMaker (since at least 1998). The only time I hand-edited a config or menu was to enable functionality which nobody ever used (hiding all dock items but keeping icons small and visible and preserving both global and virtual desktop-specific icons/windows depending on context).
        msh 14y ago
        I think I last used windowmaker around 2004 and I have a distinct recollection of editing configfiles. Maybe I am remembering wrong. I still think that OSX provides a much better GUI than WM, which should not have been introduced according to your logic and so people would miss out on improvements (but i miss focus follows mouse...).
loverobots 14y ago
Love Linus but I think he is excited that someone is taking on Windows (cough cough :)). Files on cloud are great, until you get locked out and lose everything so...
hisyam 14y ago
I've never had the chance to try Chromebook yet, so does anyone know whether Chromebook has a native terminal & a good text editor? I would love to turn it into a web development environment.
losvedir 14y ago
The understated comment in his post that really caught my eye was this: "Today it decided to update itself to the new chrome version with the Aura window manager." This will be a boon to the average user, as they'll have constantly up-to-date software, and security holes can get patched as quickly as they're found. That said, I would be concerned with things changing like that without my control, but I expect I'm in the minority.
generateui 14y ago
I like the cloud, but I really hate giving out control of my data. It makes a lot of sense for public data (tweets, blogposts), which you want to share anyways. I see a lot of potential in a "drop": a personal cloud server installed at home, with the same user friendliness as e.g. google docs. Public data/services in the cloud, personal stuff at home. There still is enough opportunity to integrate mmoc? (massively multiple online collaboration?) into those apps. An example of this might be diaspora. Many drops make a cloud, too.
- nooneelse 14y ago
  I desire something along similar lines, TonidoPlug plus a rich app store. Owned by me. Plug in and log on simplicity. The option to mirror it up on a VPS rented by me if/when it needs a fatter pipe than my home connection. And mmoc (massively multiple online collaboration) instead of Facebook et alia sounds great to me. If someone wants to buy/use data about me, I would like them to have to come negotiate with the source.
tammer 14y ago
I think all the comments about the benefits/detriments of Chrome OS as a whole are a little off topic. I think the most important element of this piece is Torvalds' recognition that "simple" UI doesn't need to limit a user's ability to visually organize. I completely agree with his comparison to GTK3 (and I think the same applies to Unity). Forcing users into a singular workflow with limited options will always seem somewhat inhibiting, regardless of how "easy to use" the UI may seem. This crucial element is lacking from these modern Linux window managers.
yock 14y ago
The most interesting thing to me about each of these little episodes is how Linus, by creating the brilliant Linux kernel, is lauded as a sort-of-oracle when giving his opinion about very non-kernel things. I quite like the simple, opinionated approach to Gnome and Unity but my opinion (and others who may agree with me) matters somehow less because I didn't create this great thing that has nothing to do with UI design philosophy. I guess that's the true value of geek cred.
- greatquux 14y ago
  It's probably also because we find him 'interesting' (whatever that means). I give my opinion too but it doesn't really matter. :)
- emilv 14y ago
  I think you are wrong. I don't think people listen to Torvalds because he created and leads the development of the Linux kernel. I think people listen to him because he is very active in the free software community, voicing his opinions, writing in a somewhat balanced way and clearly expressing what he believes. People don't always agree with him (obviously the Gnome guys don't). You can do exactly the same thing: make your voice heard, state clearly and preferrably factually what you think is best for the free software stack. People will listen!
- jasonwatkinspdx 14y ago
  You are making some huge assumptions about how people form their own opinions and then using those assumptions to invalidate those of us who disagree with your view. Stop.
- slurgfest 14y ago
  I suspect that the people who approve what Linus says on this matter are the people who already agree with what he says on this matter. Already having this kind of opinion, it feels good for some smart high-profile to say it in an articulate way. It's true that liking Gnome and/or Unity seems to have a kind of stigma these days.
jiggy2011 14y ago
I think a lot of people are missing the point of what Linus is saying somewhat. He's really just addressing the elephant in the room by saying that as of yet the whole open source desktop mess has failed to produce anything that looks like a compelling , easy to use desktop. If Google can produce a Linux based operating system that addresses the needs of casual users and power users/technophiles (like Linus) and get it on enough hardware (i.e not just netbooks but "serious" desktops as well) then they can (combined with android) simply eat everyone elses lunch. What is not so important necessarily is whether or not local storage or local apps will "go away" but that Google understands that a modern OS needs to treat "the cloud", i.e webapps , online storage , social networks as first class citizens inside the OS. This is a metaphor that is missing (in a really intuitive form) mostly from even new OSes like Windows 8. Hard disks are not dead, but I think the idea of having C:\Program Files\.. is. Even as a technical user myself the directory hierarchy is mostly just an abstraction that gets in my way. My work (i.e source code) is in git, my games are in Steam, my email is at google , my music on Spotify and all the "other stuff" is in dropbox. What I need is an OS that ties all of these things together seamless regardless of whether the bytes themselves reside on the disk inside my computer or on some website somewhere but can provide sufficient tools when needed to fix leaky abstractions. Let's suppose you could buy a new workstation soon that ran a nice clean Chrome OS desktop but had sufficient memory and hardware level virtualization that simply clipping in a "proper" Linux or all the MS libraries such as DirectX that you needed to run Windows apps was a trivial activity that could be abstracted away from the end user if required. Would you not be curious to buy one?
- nullmodem 14y ago
  I'm not quite sure what you're trying to argue for. You seem to want an integrated way of accessing remote resources (a la SMB but for extremely remote resources), but then you seem to be arguing in favour of hiding the directory hierarchy entirely (forgive me if I'm mistaken here). In regards to remote resources, currently there are various FUSE plugins which can present remote resources in the filesystem (e.g. flickrfs). These are of course issues with the abstraction (how do we represent tags in a hierarchy?), but the use of these plugins is mostly transparent to the user (ignoring performance). It's certainly possible to build a layer atop of these that would integrate better with the system (e.g. add a Facebook selection to the open dialog). You also seem to want to conflate applications with the data they manage. For a large number of users this is fine (iTunes is already their music, IE is the internet, etc), but for many others this is problematic (how do you manage moving data between these applications without a common intermediary. consider scanning an image, touching it up, then including it in a document - where do the original and altered versions live, how are they accessed by applications?).
ebbv 14y ago
Nobody else thinks it's an odd coincidence that this post by Linus and a post by Douglas Crockford both on Google Plus were submitted two hours apart? To clarify, I don't think it's a coincidence and I think Google employees probably submitted these.
- unimpressive 14y ago
  And? They were both worthy of submission IMO. (The Douglas Crockford post more than this one though.)
- 286c8cb04bda 14y ago
  > To clarify, I don't think it's a coincidence and I think Google employees probably submitted these. If you look at the posters' profiles you can see where they both work. (Neither is currently a Google employee.)

201 points by simanyay 14y ago

Chrysis (cough cough)

I didn't know Aura was making such progress until my buddy got it on his CR48. I'm tempted to remove Ubuntu and reinstall crOS to use it longer, but I also still really appreciate my full Ubuntu environment. If I recall correctly, Aura also serves as a real proper full window manager and already has support for Wayland too!

benologist 14y ago

I don't think a new UI is enough to make Chromebooks suddenly matter. I got one at a conference and ended up giving it to a friend because the build quality and specs were terrible - it looked and felt and ran crap without even taking into consideration how different they are to use.

AndrewNoNumbers 14y ago
What's sad is that they couldn't get the original Chrome OS to feel any faster in use than Windows 7 on Atom.

MatthewPhillips 14y ago

I agree, especially about the Atom processor This computer is mid priced. Other laptops in that price range use real CPUs.

marcusestes 14y ago

Apparently it does have a terminal (Ctrl + Alt + T).

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

psychotik 14y ago

Anyone have a link to screenshots of the Aura UI?

AndrewNoNumbers 14y ago
http://googlesystem.blogspot.jp/2012/04/new-window-manager-for-chrome-os.html http://googlesystem.blogspot.jp/2012/04/new-window-manager-f...
- prophetjohn 14y ago
  Looks like Windows 7 if it had OS X's launchpad.
  - checker659 14y ago
    I bet they wanted to make the UI as Windows like as possible because that's what most of the users are used to. The fact the chrome icon sits where the 'start' button sits on windows clearly isn't a coincidence.

wavephorm 14y ago

The "All-Web" paradigm is coming, folks. And it really doesn't matter how much you love your iPhone, or your Android, or Windows phone. Native apps are toast, in the long run. Your data is moving to the cloud -- your pictures, your music, your movies, and every document you write. It's all going up there, and local hard drives will be history within 3 years. And what that means is ALL software is heading there too. Native apps running locally on your computer are going to be thing of the past, and it simply blows my mind that even people here on HackerNews completely fail to understand this fact. The computing landscape is changing right now, and any company that revolves around servicing Windows desktop software is going to be in for a real hard time. Whether or not Google's Chrome OS is the eventual successor is not clear (I don't think it is), but their general idea is correct. The all-network, all-cloud world is coming whether you like it or not.

whackberry 14y ago
Are you being sarcastic?
furyofantares 14y ago
Care to explain why you believe native apps are toast in the long run, or how that's related to data moving to the cloud? Web apps solved the problem of having to figure out how to find, install, or update software and not having it everywhere you go. App stores have caught up on discovery/installation/updates, and mobile has solved the problem of not having it everywhere I go. Web apps will eventually catch up on performance and maybe someday they will feel like first class citizens in any given OS rather than being relegated to mess of throwaway tabs. We've been within 3 years of that for something like a decade, but maybe we really finally are within 3 years of that. But we aren't within 3 years of having any two web apps looking similar and using familiar UI elements. Every web app is a new UI to learn, maybe not a problem for you or me, but mobile has reached 3 year olds and 90 year olds and everyone in between, most of whom have not acquired the skill to pick up umfamiliar UIs and don't want to. As for data moving to the cloud, I'm with you. And I have a lot of native apps that interact with remote data.
- 14y ago

hsshah 14y ago

While reading the post, I was not sure if the tone was sarcastic or genuine! On a second read, it does feel like a genuine comment. Some folks should use 'Not Sarcasm' tag!

whackberry 14y ago
That's the Linus way. You never know when he's being sarcastic, but mostly he's being serious with a few sarcastic turns.

fady 14y ago

i've been using the first gen chromebooks since they came out and have to say that the UI is a lot better than before. it felt like you could not escape the browser unless you closed all your tabs or shut it off, but with aura you feel at home with a "desktop" experience that just seems right. the hardware is another story...they're great for light browsing and netflix...kinda.

AndrewNoNumbers 14y ago

Time to boot back into Chrome OS on my Cr-48!

dustinrodrigues 14y ago
Maybe not, though: "The latest Chrome OS release is only available for Samsung and Acer Chromebooks as Cr-48 Chromebooks will skip Chrome 19." from http://googlesystem.blogspot.jp/2012/04/new-window-manager-for-chrome-os.html http://googlesystem.blogspot.jp/2012/04/new-window-manager-f...
- pinwale 14y ago
  Google will be adding support for the Cr-48 in Chrome OS 20. From the comments: http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/2012/04/dev-channel-update-for-chromebooks.html http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/2012/04/dev-channel...

whackberry 14y ago

This is one of my heroes, he never has let me down in his opinions. No BS, straight talk, one of the very few relevant people still not sold out in this business. Turning the desktop into a retarded terminal for some company's javascript apps is a bad idea, but some can't seem to grasp that.

deet 14y ago

It saddens me that Chrome OS is switching from full-screen windows to a stacking metaphor. The opportunity to move to a tiling (even just two columns like Metro) paradigm was there and would be a natural extension of the tab metaphor. Disappointing, although I'm happy to see progress towards an OS that treats web apps as first-class.

robbed 14y ago
Aura does do 2 column tiling

peterwwillis 14y ago

UIs that have worked for people for years should never be replaced.

msh 14y ago
So we should all be using the windows 3.1 ui?
- peterwwillis 14y ago
  Close. I've been using WindowMaker for 10 years. It's pretty perfect. No gimmicks. No unnecessary features. Lots of flexibility. Minimal. User friendly. Fast. Stable. It just works. If someone has used Windows 95 before, a whole slew of operating systems after will be intuitive and a random user will know how to use it without instruction. They don't need anything more advanced. They just need it not to crash or bloat or change and become confusing. Most people just want shit to work.
  - msh 14y ago
    Last time I used windowmaker it required hand editing config files, thats a pretty long way from shit that just work for most people.
    - peterwwillis 14y ago
      I've been using this handy graphical tool called WPrefs that ships with WindowMaker (since at least 1998). The only time I hand-edited a config or menu was to enable functionality which nobody ever used (hiding all dock items but keeping icons small and visible and preserving both global and virtual desktop-specific icons/windows depending on context).
      - msh 14y ago
        I think I last used windowmaker around 2004 and I have a distinct recollection of editing configfiles. Maybe I am remembering wrong. I still think that OSX provides a much better GUI than WM, which should not have been introduced according to your logic and so people would miss out on improvements (but i miss focus follows mouse...).

loverobots 14y ago

Love Linus but I think he is excited that someone is taking on Windows (cough cough :)). Files on cloud are great, until you get locked out and lose everything so...

hisyam 14y ago

I've never had the chance to try Chromebook yet, so does anyone know whether Chromebook has a native terminal & a good text editor? I would love to turn it into a web development environment.

losvedir 14y ago

The understated comment in his post that really caught my eye was this: "Today it decided to update itself to the new chrome version with the Aura window manager." This will be a boon to the average user, as they'll have constantly up-to-date software, and security holes can get patched as quickly as they're found. That said, I would be concerned with things changing like that without my control, but I expect I'm in the minority.

generateui 14y ago

I like the cloud, but I really hate giving out control of my data. It makes a lot of sense for public data (tweets, blogposts), which you want to share anyways. I see a lot of potential in a "drop": a personal cloud server installed at home, with the same user friendliness as e.g. google docs. Public data/services in the cloud, personal stuff at home. There still is enough opportunity to integrate mmoc? (massively multiple online collaboration?) into those apps. An example of this might be diaspora. Many drops make a cloud, too.

nooneelse 14y ago
I desire something along similar lines, TonidoPlug plus a rich app store. Owned by me. Plug in and log on simplicity. The option to mirror it up on a VPS rented by me if/when it needs a fatter pipe than my home connection. And mmoc (massively multiple online collaboration) instead of Facebook et alia sounds great to me. If someone wants to buy/use data about me, I would like them to have to come negotiate with the source.

tammer 14y ago

I think all the comments about the benefits/detriments of Chrome OS as a whole are a little off topic. I think the most important element of this piece is Torvalds' recognition that "simple" UI doesn't need to limit a user's ability to visually organize. I completely agree with his comparison to GTK3 (and I think the same applies to Unity). Forcing users into a singular workflow with limited options will always seem somewhat inhibiting, regardless of how "easy to use" the UI may seem. This crucial element is lacking from these modern Linux window managers.

yock 14y ago

The most interesting thing to me about each of these little episodes is how Linus, by creating the brilliant Linux kernel, is lauded as a sort-of-oracle when giving his opinion about very non-kernel things. I quite like the simple, opinionated approach to Gnome and Unity but my opinion (and others who may agree with me) matters somehow less because I didn't create this great thing that has nothing to do with UI design philosophy. I guess that's the true value of geek cred.

greatquux 14y ago
It's probably also because we find him 'interesting' (whatever that means). I give my opinion too but it doesn't really matter. :)
emilv 14y ago
I think you are wrong. I don't think people listen to Torvalds because he created and leads the development of the Linux kernel. I think people listen to him because he is very active in the free software community, voicing his opinions, writing in a somewhat balanced way and clearly expressing what he believes. People don't always agree with him (obviously the Gnome guys don't). You can do exactly the same thing: make your voice heard, state clearly and preferrably factually what you think is best for the free software stack. People will listen!
jasonwatkinspdx 14y ago
You are making some huge assumptions about how people form their own opinions and then using those assumptions to invalidate those of us who disagree with your view. Stop.
slurgfest 14y ago
I suspect that the people who approve what Linus says on this matter are the people who already agree with what he says on this matter. Already having this kind of opinion, it feels good for some smart high-profile to say it in an articulate way. It's true that liking Gnome and/or Unity seems to have a kind of stigma these days.

jiggy2011 14y ago

I think a lot of people are missing the point of what Linus is saying somewhat. He's really just addressing the elephant in the room by saying that as of yet the whole open source desktop mess has failed to produce anything that looks like a compelling , easy to use desktop. If Google can produce a Linux based operating system that addresses the needs of casual users and power users/technophiles (like Linus) and get it on enough hardware (i.e not just netbooks but "serious" desktops as well) then they can (combined with android) simply eat everyone elses lunch. What is not so important necessarily is whether or not local storage or local apps will "go away" but that Google understands that a modern OS needs to treat "the cloud", i.e webapps , online storage , social networks as first class citizens inside the OS. This is a metaphor that is missing (in a really intuitive form) mostly from even new OSes like Windows 8. Hard disks are not dead, but I think the idea of having C:\Program Files\.. is. Even as a technical user myself the directory hierarchy is mostly just an abstraction that gets in my way. My work (i.e source code) is in git, my games are in Steam, my email is at google , my music on Spotify and all the "other stuff" is in dropbox. What I need is an OS that ties all of these things together seamless regardless of whether the bytes themselves reside on the disk inside my computer or on some website somewhere but can provide sufficient tools when needed to fix leaky abstractions. Let's suppose you could buy a new workstation soon that ran a nice clean Chrome OS desktop but had sufficient memory and hardware level virtualization that simply clipping in a "proper" Linux or all the MS libraries such as DirectX that you needed to run Windows apps was a trivial activity that could be abstracted away from the end user if required. Would you not be curious to buy one?

nullmodem 14y ago
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to argue for. You seem to want an integrated way of accessing remote resources (a la SMB but for extremely remote resources), but then you seem to be arguing in favour of hiding the directory hierarchy entirely (forgive me if I'm mistaken here). In regards to remote resources, currently there are various FUSE plugins which can present remote resources in the filesystem (e.g. flickrfs). These are of course issues with the abstraction (how do we represent tags in a hierarchy?), but the use of these plugins is mostly transparent to the user (ignoring performance). It's certainly possible to build a layer atop of these that would integrate better with the system (e.g. add a Facebook selection to the open dialog). You also seem to want to conflate applications with the data they manage. For a large number of users this is fine (iTunes is already their music, IE is the internet, etc), but for many others this is problematic (how do you manage moving data between these applications without a common intermediary. consider scanning an image, touching it up, then including it in a document - where do the original and altered versions live, how are they accessed by applications?).

ebbv 14y ago

Nobody else thinks it's an odd coincidence that this post by Linus and a post by Douglas Crockford both on Google Plus were submitted two hours apart? To clarify, I don't think it's a coincidence and I think Google employees probably submitted these.

unimpressive 14y ago
And? They were both worthy of submission IMO. (The Douglas Crockford post more than this one though.)
286c8cb04bda 14y ago
> To clarify, I don't think it's a coincidence and I think Google employees probably submitted these. If you look at the posters' profiles you can see where they both work. (Neither is currently a Google employee.)