8 ms·

Based on everything I am hearing about all the harmful uses this tech could have on society, i'm wondering if this situation is alarming enough to warrant an in

Based on everything I am hearing about all the harmful uses this tech could have on society, i'm wondering if this situation is alarming enough to warrant an inquiry of some kind to determine whats going on behind the scenes. It seems like this situation is serious enough that we cannot let this kind of work be privatized. Not interested in entertaining all the "this is the norm" arguments, that's just an attempt at getting people to normalize this behavior. Does anyone know if the Center of AI Safety acting for the public good and is this on their radar?

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> wondering if this situation is alarming enough to warrant an inquiry of some kind to determine whats going on behind the scenes OpenAI is making people rich and America look good, all while not doing anything obviously harmful to the public interest. They’re not a juicy target for anyone in the public sphere. If any one of those changes, OpenAI and possibly its leadership are in extremely hot water with the authorities.
- trinsic2 3y ago
  > all while not doing anything obviously harmful to the public interest. Yeah, gonna have to challenge that: 1. We don't really if what they are doing is harming public interest, because we dont have access to much information about whats happening behind the scenes. 2. And there is enough information about this tech that leads to the possibility of it causing systemic damage to society if its not correctly controlled.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > We don't really if what they are doing is harming public interest That’s potentially harmful. > is enough information about this tech that leads to the possibility of it causing systemic damage Far from established. Hypothetically harmful. Obvious harm would need to be present and provable. (Otherwise, it’s a political question.)
    - cj 3y ago
      You could say the same thing about a hypertargeted ad platform optimized for political use cases (Cambridge analytica) before they were outed. I think the point is it would be good to investigate future hypothetical harm before it becomes present and provable, at which point it’s too late.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > it would be good to investigate future hypothetical harm Sure. That’s why we have the fourth estate. We don’t have anything close to what it would take to launch inquiries.
  - danielmarkbruce 3y ago
    You don't have access because you aren't supposed to. Nothing about the founding, laws or customs of the US suggest that you (nor the government itself) have access to information about other people/companies any time you/they feel like "finding out what's happening behind the scenes". As for "too important to privatize"... practically all the important work in the world is done by private companies. It wasn't the government who just created vaccines for Covid. It isn't the government producing weapons for defense. It's not Joe B producing houses or electricity or cars or planes. That's not to say the government doesn't do anything but the idea that the dividing line for government work is "super important work" is wildly wrong and it's much closer to the inverse.
    - romwell 3y ago
      >practically all the important work in the world is done by private companies LOL, another one thinks the US is the entire world.
      - danielmarkbruce 3y ago
        The comment about access is related to a US company. The relevant legal jurisdiction and framework is the US. If it were a French company, the relevant jurisdiction would be... France. You may not realize this, but OpenAI is a US company. The comment about all the important work in the world being done by private companies was indeed a global comment. You may not realize this, but covid vaccines were made by astrazeneca (UK), BioNTech (Germany), several US companies and others. Defense companies are located in every major economy. Most countries have power systems which are privately owned. Commercial planes are mostly built by one large French company and one large US company. All the large producers of cars around the world are private companies - big ones exist in the US, Japan, various European countries, Korea and China.
        romwell 3y ago
        It looks like you have a problem understanding the meaning of the word "all". Specifically, you are confusing all and some.
  - colordrops 3y ago
    OpenAI Head of Research Tal Broda deleted over 80 tweets where he openly called for genocide in Gaza, asking to "finish them" including civilians [1] [2]. If this is who is at the helm of OpenAI, it's absolutely insane to not see how the type of informational power could have serious negative implications. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/18mvigw/openai_head_of_research_tal_broda_talbroda/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/18mvigw/openai_h... [2] https://twitter.com/ArarMaher/status/1736519079102476766 https://twitter.com/ArarMaher/status/1736519079102476766
- samstave 3y ago
  Though, it should be argued that only the ignorant would believe that is not an historically significant inflection point in Nefariousness as it pertains to the next few fucking centuries. So let the fleas look at their feet... Seriously - AI isnt the demise if Humanity - greed.ai is. EDIT: I plugged in the following prompt to my local thingy... It spit this out: - >>>P: "AI is not the demise of Humanity, greed.ai is. Show how greedy humans in charge of AI entanglements are holding the entire of earth." - https://i.imgur.com/OmGLYrj.jpg https://i.imgur.com/OmGLYrj.jpg
wonderwonder 3y ago
AGI is coming. Private companies move faster and more efficiently than government agencies, look at spaceX as an example. The only open question is do we want the company that creates AGI to be American or Chinese? Government intervention by people that know nothing about technology (watch any congressional hearing) is not going to help anyone and will only serve to ensure China wins the race.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > AGI is coming. That's what some people assert, but there's no solid reason to assume that's true. We don't even know if it's in the realm of the possible. > The only open question is do we want the company that creates AGI to be American or Chinese? That's far from the only question. I don't even think it's in the top 10 of the list of important questions.
  - wonderwonder 3y ago
    If like OP you think that the work Open AI is doing is going to have a such a large effect on society that private entities should not be able to work on it then the question of America Vs China is indeed one of the most important questions. "That's what some people assert, but there's no solid reason to assume that's true. We don't even know if it's in the realm of the possible" True, but there are a lot of very smart people getting handed huge amounts of money by other very smart people that seem to think it is.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      > then the question of America Vs China is indeed one of the most important questions. I don't actually take the stance as you stated it -- but if I did, I'd say that would mean it doesn't matter at all what nation develops it because the consequences would be disastrous no matter who did it first. > a lot of very smart people getting handed huge amounts of money by other very smart people that seem to think it is. Ignoring whether or not the people funding this are "very smart" (I don't know if they are or not), there are also a lot of very smart people who think that it isn't. Just the fact that some very smart people think such a thing isn't evidence that they're correct. You also have to keep in mind that the more intelligent a person is, the easier it is for them to convince themselves of pretty much anything. Right now, it's all just a battle of opinions.
samstave 3y ago
Wow - I posted a very similar inquest: https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=39123056 https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=39123056 --- Has the following already been addressed, or even generally broached; Treat AI (or AGI(?) more specifically) as global Utility which needs us to put ALL our Technology Points into the "Information Age Base Level 2" skill points and create a new manner in dealing with the next layer in Human Society, as is rapidly gestating. https://i.imgur.com/P1LBKFL.png https://i.imgur.com/P1LBKFL.png I feel this is different than what is meant by Alignment? It seems as though general Humanity is not handling this well, but it appears that there is an F-ton of opaque behavior amongst the inner circle of the AI pyramid that we all will just be involuntarily entangled in? I don't mean to sound bleak - just that feels as though that the reality coming down the conveyor....

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> wondering if this situation is alarming enough to warrant an inquiry of some kind to determine whats going on behind the scenes OpenAI is making people rich and America look good, all while not doing anything obviously harmful to the public interest. They’re not a juicy target for anyone in the public sphere. If any one of those changes, OpenAI and possibly its leadership are in extremely hot water with the authorities.

trinsic2 3y ago
> all while not doing anything obviously harmful to the public interest. Yeah, gonna have to challenge that: 1. We don't really if what they are doing is harming public interest, because we dont have access to much information about whats happening behind the scenes. 2. And there is enough information about this tech that leads to the possibility of it causing systemic damage to society if its not correctly controlled.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > We don't really if what they are doing is harming public interest That’s potentially harmful. > is enough information about this tech that leads to the possibility of it causing systemic damage Far from established. Hypothetically harmful. Obvious harm would need to be present and provable. (Otherwise, it’s a political question.)
  - cj 3y ago
    You could say the same thing about a hypertargeted ad platform optimized for political use cases (Cambridge analytica) before they were outed. I think the point is it would be good to investigate future hypothetical harm before it becomes present and provable, at which point it’s too late.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > it would be good to investigate future hypothetical harm Sure. That’s why we have the fourth estate. We don’t have anything close to what it would take to launch inquiries.
- danielmarkbruce 3y ago
  You don't have access because you aren't supposed to. Nothing about the founding, laws or customs of the US suggest that you (nor the government itself) have access to information about other people/companies any time you/they feel like "finding out what's happening behind the scenes". As for "too important to privatize"... practically all the important work in the world is done by private companies. It wasn't the government who just created vaccines for Covid. It isn't the government producing weapons for defense. It's not Joe B producing houses or electricity or cars or planes. That's not to say the government doesn't do anything but the idea that the dividing line for government work is "super important work" is wildly wrong and it's much closer to the inverse.
  - romwell 3y ago
    >practically all the important work in the world is done by private companies LOL, another one thinks the US is the entire world.
    - danielmarkbruce 3y ago
      The comment about access is related to a US company. The relevant legal jurisdiction and framework is the US. If it were a French company, the relevant jurisdiction would be... France. You may not realize this, but OpenAI is a US company. The comment about all the important work in the world being done by private companies was indeed a global comment. You may not realize this, but covid vaccines were made by astrazeneca (UK), BioNTech (Germany), several US companies and others. Defense companies are located in every major economy. Most countries have power systems which are privately owned. Commercial planes are mostly built by one large French company and one large US company. All the large producers of cars around the world are private companies - big ones exist in the US, Japan, various European countries, Korea and China.
      - romwell 3y ago
        It looks like you have a problem understanding the meaning of the word "all". Specifically, you are confusing all and some.
- colordrops 3y ago
  OpenAI Head of Research Tal Broda deleted over 80 tweets where he openly called for genocide in Gaza, asking to "finish them" including civilians [1] [2]. If this is who is at the helm of OpenAI, it's absolutely insane to not see how the type of informational power could have serious negative implications. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/18mvigw/openai_head_of_research_tal_broda_talbroda/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/18mvigw/openai_h... [2] https://twitter.com/ArarMaher/status/1736519079102476766 https://twitter.com/ArarMaher/status/1736519079102476766
samstave 3y ago
Though, it should be argued that only the ignorant would believe that is not an historically significant inflection point in Nefariousness as it pertains to the next few fucking centuries. So let the fleas look at their feet... Seriously - AI isnt the demise if Humanity - greed.ai is. EDIT: I plugged in the following prompt to my local thingy... It spit this out: - >>>P: "AI is not the demise of Humanity, greed.ai is. Show how greedy humans in charge of AI entanglements are holding the entire of earth." - https://i.imgur.com/OmGLYrj.jpg https://i.imgur.com/OmGLYrj.jpg

wonderwonder 3y ago

AGI is coming. Private companies move faster and more efficiently than government agencies, look at spaceX as an example. The only open question is do we want the company that creates AGI to be American or Chinese? Government intervention by people that know nothing about technology (watch any congressional hearing) is not going to help anyone and will only serve to ensure China wins the race.

JohnFen 3y ago
> AGI is coming. That's what some people assert, but there's no solid reason to assume that's true. We don't even know if it's in the realm of the possible. > The only open question is do we want the company that creates AGI to be American or Chinese? That's far from the only question. I don't even think it's in the top 10 of the list of important questions.
- wonderwonder 3y ago
  If like OP you think that the work Open AI is doing is going to have a such a large effect on society that private entities should not be able to work on it then the question of America Vs China is indeed one of the most important questions. "That's what some people assert, but there's no solid reason to assume that's true. We don't even know if it's in the realm of the possible" True, but there are a lot of very smart people getting handed huge amounts of money by other very smart people that seem to think it is.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > then the question of America Vs China is indeed one of the most important questions. I don't actually take the stance as you stated it -- but if I did, I'd say that would mean it doesn't matter at all what nation develops it because the consequences would be disastrous no matter who did it first. > a lot of very smart people getting handed huge amounts of money by other very smart people that seem to think it is. Ignoring whether or not the people funding this are "very smart" (I don't know if they are or not), there are also a lot of very smart people who think that it isn't. Just the fact that some very smart people think such a thing isn't evidence that they're correct. You also have to keep in mind that the more intelligent a person is, the easier it is for them to convince themselves of pretty much anything. Right now, it's all just a battle of opinions.

samstave 3y ago

Wow - I posted a very similar inquest: https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=39123056 https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=39123056 --- Has the following already been addressed, or even generally broached; Treat AI (or AGI(?) more specifically) as global Utility which needs us to put ALL our Technology Points into the "Information Age Base Level 2" skill points and create a new manner in dealing with the next layer in Human Society, as is rapidly gestating. https://i.imgur.com/P1LBKFL.png https://i.imgur.com/P1LBKFL.png I feel this is different than what is meant by Alignment? It seems as though general Humanity is not handling this well, but it appears that there is an F-ton of opaque behavior amongst the inner circle of the AI pyramid that we all will just be involuntarily entangled in? I don't mean to sound bleak - just that feels as though that the reality coming down the conveyor....